I picked the Humor/Off Topic forum board for posting this, although this may not be "silliness" to some here!! However, I do laugh at just the thought of taking a fictional book/movie character, and making him/it a recognized leader of a religion! And that recognized character would be none-other than Yoda, the Grand Master of the Jedi Order.
Actually, I wanted to post this here, because so much is made of fictional situations in our livingmoon arena, I expected this might fit right in with that genre of thought!! :) Interestingly enough, this article is from the Jerusalem Post! :)
Turkish theologian believes that the newest threat to the world order may be a brand new religion - "Jediism."
According to the Turkish daily Hurriyet, a university professor wrote an article in official state-sanctioned media warning of the rise of a Jedi movement among Christians.
"Jediism...is spreading today in Christian societies," Bilal Yorulmaz, an assistant professor at Marmara University, writes in the latest issue of the government's Directorate of Religious Affairs' monthly magazine. "Around 70,000 people in Australia and 390,000 people in England currently define themselves as Jedis."
In the sci-fi-action-adventure blockbuster Star Wars series, the Jedi is a special class of wise intellectuals and poet-warriors dedicated to good deeds and spreading justice throughout the universe.
Perhaps the most recognizable adherent of the Jedi ideology is Yoda, the Grand Master of the Jedi Order who trained some of the more formidable warriors, including Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker.
In recent censuses, a number of people in Western countries listed their religion as "Jediism," although many took this to be a tongue-in-cheek attempt at humor.
Earlier this year, Turkish students signed online petitions - which many took to be jokes - advocating the construction of more Buddhist temples and "Jedi" houses of worship.
Apparently, though, not everyone got the joke.
http://www.jpost.com/Not-Just-News/May-the-force-be-with-you-Turkey-fears-rise-of-religion-of-Jediism-413280
(http://s9.postimg.org/4mls296z3/Screen_Shot_2015_08_26_at_4_51_49_PM.jpg)
Quote from: rdunk on August 26, 2015, 11:02:18 PM
I picked the Humor/Off Topic forum board for posting this, although this may not be "silliness" to some here!! However, I do laugh at just the thought of taking a fictional book/movie character, and making him/it a recognized leader of a religion! And that recognized character would be none-other than Yoda, the Grand Master of the Jedi Order.
Says the fellow who has his own fictional book that he believes to be real :P
::)
As for Master Yoda, does he not say the same thing as Master Jesus said about faith moving mountains? (Okay Yoda said spaceship :P but where is the difference?
I can understand why Turkish Muslims would be concerned... seeing as Muslims blew up an Ancient Buddhist statue...
Jedism is really just a Western modernization of Ancient Shaolin and other Eastern mystical practices... nothing new, just shown in a different light
Levitation (Yoda's spaceship and Jesus's Mountain) was once even considered Holy by the Christians. The "Force" to move objects with the mind is no different than the Ancient Eastern Chi
On top of that Quantum Science is discovering that Mind over Matter may indeed be much more real than we ever thought
So the pendulum swings again...
But that picture of Yoda in front of the Turkish Mosque That is AWESOME :D
QuoteActually, I wanted to post this here, because so much is made of fictional situations in our livingmoon arena, I expected this might fit right in with that genre of thought!! :) Interestingly enough, this article is from the Jerusalem Post! :)
Well your truth is our fiction too :D but it is amusing that it is in the Jerusalem Post... But then Jews are much more open to humor when it comes to religious humor... Christians tend to feel persecuted and Muslims go all Jihad on you and kill you
QuoteTurkish theologian believes that the newest threat to the world order may be a brand new religion - "Jediism."
If only it would happen it would be a good thing. Jedism is a Knightly virtue... for the good of all
QuoteAccording to the Turkish daily Hurriyet, a university professor wrote an article in official state-sanctioned media warning of the rise of a Jedi movement among Christians.
"Jediism...is spreading today in Christian societies," Bilal Yorulmaz, an assistant professor at Marmara University, writes in the latest issue of the government's Directorate of Religious Affairs' monthly magazine. "Around 70,000 people in Australia and 390,000 people in England currently define themselves as Jedis."
LOL I think I will do that next time someone asks my religion... since I do strongly believe in the force. (I can even give you exercises so you can feel it yourself)
Funny you should post this... it may be more true than you think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po6_hhZACo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po6_hhZACo4
QuoteEarlier this year, Turkish students signed online petitions - which many took to be jokes - advocating the construction of more Buddhist temples and "Jedi" houses of worship.
Turkey is still one of the Moderate Islamic states (They still allow public belly dancers :D) Amazing that Turkey students even get to watch Star Wars
QuoteApparently, though, not everyone got the joke.
Perhaps it isn't a joke...
::)
(http://s9.postimg.org/4mls296z3/Screen_Shot_2015_08_26_at_4_51_49_PM.jpg)
for those who need more info or may want to join.. ;)
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/
Temple Of The Jedi Order: Church Of Jediism
personally I think they should be more concerned about
http://www.venganza.org/
(http://www.venganza.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/headgear_presentation2.jpg)
Retirement headgear presentation
Published August 5th, 2015 by Bobby Henderson
I retired recently after 29 years of service in the US Navy and US Coast Guard. The guys I work with know that I am an ordained minister in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. For our holiday party, for example, I ensured that His Noodly Goodness was properly represented, as well as the Festivus pole and other more mainstream (mundane) religious symbols.
In any case, at my retirement ceremony, they presented me with this most excellent headgear, appropriately decorated with my CG rank insignia.
Best Regards,
Bob
Master Chief Petty Officer, USCG (ret)
I find it inspiring to see work people getting along. It's obvious that Bob's coworkers hold him in high regard, and it's touching to see this level of religious tolerance towards Pastafarianism. Have a great retirement!
but then there is this one.. I know some would want to join
http://listverse.com/2009/09/10/10-extremely-weird-religions/
Church of the SubGenius
The Church of the SubGenius is a parody religion that promotes slack, while in a meta-commentarial way, satirizes religion, conspiracy theories, UFOs, and popular culture. The church claims to have been founded in the 1950s by the "world's greatest salesman" J. R. "Bob" Dobbs. "Bob" Dobbs is depicted as a cartoon of a Ward Cleaver-like man smoking a pipe. The church really started with the publication of SubGenius Pamphlet #1 in 1979. It found acceptance in underground pop-culture circles and has been embraced on college campuses, in the underground music scene, and on the Internet. An important SubGenius event occurred on July 5, 1998: X-Day. The Church had been predicting that on this day the world would be destroyed by invading alien armies known as the X-ists (which is short for "Men from Planet X"). When the event didn't come to pass, the church administrator who predicted it was tarred and feathered – but allowed to continue on as administrator. Paul Reubens (Pee-wee Herman) is a SubGenius minister. Patrick Volkerding, the founder and maintainer of Slackware Linux, is also a SubGenius affiliate, and he has confirmed the Church and "Bob" inspired the name for Slackware
hey Z.. sign up as a church and you are tax exempt
order to start a legally-recognized church. This is exactly what the presiding ...
501c3 Church Incorporate and Start a Church
www.hushmoney.org/
You'll also learn why it's completely unnecessary for a church to incorporate and become 501c3, and why most of what you've been told about the so-called ...
?501c3 Church Facts - ?501c3 Myths - ?501c3 Forum - ?Events
Nonprofit Law Basics: How Do I Start a Church? - Cullinane ...
cullinanelaw.com/nonprofit-law-basics-how-do-i-start-a-church/
Jan 27, 2013 - While churches are not required to become incorporated organizations or apply for tax-exempt status, your group may consider both steps.
hey Rdunk... I appreciate your sense of humor
sorry :(
Z said, "Says the fellow who has his own fictional book that he believes to be real :P"
Thank you so much Zorgon, as I just knew that SOMEBODY would likely make that comparison, but of course, I didn't know who might be the first!! :))
Well, again for the record, "the fictional book YOU are referring to, I assume is the Bible. Fiction?? NO WAY JOSE!! Christians, of the which there are more than a few, regard it as absolute fact!! About 2+ billion Christians who are living now, 600 million more Christians who were living in 1910, millions more in those between years, and millions more in the before years. Maybe a total that exceeds 4 or 5 billion over the past 2000 years total , for the number of Christians who believe the Bible to be the fact of God's Word.
So, not much weight of supported truth for anyone, or the few, who like to claim the Bible to be "FICTION, ..........other than those who have a belief in their own different religions!! :))
Quote from: rdunk on August 27, 2015, 03:46:49 AM
Thank you so much Zorgon, as I just knew that SOMEBODY would likely make that comparison, but of course, I didn't know who might be the first!! :))
Your welcome :D
QuoteWell, again for the record, "the fictional book YOU are referring to, I assume is the Bible. Fiction?? NO WAY JOSE!! Christians, of the which there are more than a few, regard it as absolute fact!!
Regarding it as fact doesn't make it fact. I can no more convince you that the Force is real than you can convince me your book is real... though I could point out MANY parts in your book that would be examples of the FORCE being used :P
It really is all a matter of interpretation :D
QuoteAbout 2+ billion Christians who are living now, 600 million more Christians who were living in 1910, millions more in those between years, and millions more in the before years. Maybe a total that exceeds 4 or 5 billion over the past 2000 years total , for the number of Christians who believe the Bible to be the fact of God's Word.
World population: 7,095,217,980
Roman Catholic 16.85%
Protestant 6.15%
Orthodox 3.96%
Anglican 1.26%)
Muslim 22.74%
Hindu 13.8%
Buddhist 6.77%
Sikh 0.35%
Jewish 0.22%
Baha'i 0.11%,
other religions 10.95%
non-religious 9.66%,
atheists 2.01% (2010 est.)
And ALL of them believe 100% that THEIR version is correct
Oddly I do not see JEDISM in that list :P
QuoteSo, not much weight of supported truth for anyone, or the few, who like to claim the Bible to be "FICTION, ..........other than those who have a belief in their own different religions!! :))
Problem is without proof it is merely a BELIEF and despite the numbers that claim to belong to a certain group. very few believe it 100% :P
Just wait till the ORI come through the Star gates... then was shall see
But I think Jedism is an awesome idea... I bet we can just form a Church and apply for tax exemption...
Anyone up to be a Prior? We could get cool robes too
(http://www.piratedropship.com/images/C1059camel_LRG.jpg)
(http://mistythicket.com/ebay/medieval_cloak_wool_03.jpg)
Just curious Z, do you accept the "Dead Sea Scrolls" as being some proof for the non-fiction fact of some parts of today's Bible??
Quote from: rdunk on August 27, 2015, 04:19:10 AM
Just curious Z, do you accept the "Dead Sea Scrolls" as being some proof for the non-fiction fact of some parts of today's Bible??
I accept the scrolls as an early WRITTEN version of the story... that does not make the story TRUE
The texts are of great historical, religious, and linguistic significance because they include the third oldest known surviving manuscripts of
works later included in the Hebrew Bible canon,
As it says they were include LATER
Take a modern cult for example... like Heavan's gate...
You have one guy who is charismatic and makes up a story... like a Comet coming is really a spaceship that will take you to God...
He has NO PROOF what so ever but tells a good story... people who listen to that story either thing he is a total nut case or believe him...
Based on what? Just his word that he is telling the truth... nothing else
They were basically Christians... with their own version of Rapture
Heaven's Gate members believed the planet Earth was about to be "recycled" (wiped clean, renewed, refurbished, and rejuvenated), and the only chance to survive was to leave it immediately. While the group was formally against suicide, they defined "suicide" in their own context to mean "to turn against the Next Level when it is being offered"[23] and believed their "human" bodies were only vessels meant to help them on their journey. In conversation, when referring to a person or a person's body, they routinely used the word "vehicle"
Group members gave up their material possessions and lived a highly ascetic life devoid of many indulgences. The group was tightly knit and everything was shared communally. Eight of the male members of the group, including Applewhite, voluntarily underwent castration in Mexico as an extreme means of maintaining the ascetic lifestyle.
On March 19–20, 1997, Marshall Applewhite taped himself speaking of mass suicide and asserted "it was the only way to evacuate this Earth". After claiming that a spacecraft was trailing Comet Hale–Bopp, Applewhite convinced 38 followers to commit suicide so that their souls could board the supposed craft. Applewhite believed that after their deaths, an unidentified flying object (UFO) would take their souls to another "level of existence above human", which he described as being both physical and spiritual. This and other UFO-related beliefs held by the group have led some observers to characterize the group as a type of UFO religion. In October 1996, the group purchased alien abduction insurance to cover up to 50 members at a cost of $10,000
The members took phenobarbital mixed with apple sauce, washed down with vodka. Additionally, they secured plastic bags around their heads after ingesting the mix to induce asphyxiation. Authorities found the dead lying neatly in their own bunk beds, faces and torsos covered by a square, purple cloth. Each member carried a five-dollar bill and three quarters in their pockets—said to be for interplanetary toll.
So the point is that it is VERY easy for one person to convince a large group that they have the TRUTH...
This in my opinion is the real danger of any and all religions (not a spiritual belief)
So yes I accept the scrolls as written proof that the story was written down back then,,, but it is still just a story
And don't forget THESE guys,,, they are getting a lot of followers
Inside the world of the Raëlians
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/09/article-2624420-1DABCA2700000578-297_634x424.jpg)
They have a lot going for them
One: They are a UFO cult, so they apeal to Aline believers
Two They include a lot of New Age stuff
Three They use naked women like the Hippies did in the 60's
There symbol is a little disturbing...
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9dSHxMwK-KU/UnpXDNSZ4SI/AAAAAAAAAg8/p5TUV_4nLsM/s1600/raelian_symbol_swastika_greek.png)
They have cool Temples
(http://hopetotheend.com/images/raelians.jpg)
And an Embassy
They are already all around the world spreading Peace and Love like the Old Hippy days
(http://www.raelcanada.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/1naked.png?a2ad89)
Montreal Canada
Just one of the tamer pictures but I can see the appeal :P
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1JBEq2GtvJ0/maxresdefault.jpg)
(http://www.whatisacult.com/uploads/1/2/1/0/1210841/7143727.jpg)
(http://www.rael.org/rael_content/images/bg-embassy.jpg)
That's the ZioNazi symbol.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9dSHxMwK-KU/UnpXDNSZ4SI/AAAAAAAAAg8/p5TUV_4nLsM/s1600/raelian_symbol_swastika_greek.png)
The Zion symbol is a triangle up and a triangle down, overlayed.
The Nazi symbol mates the zio symbol to reveal the true nature of who rules the planet. They hide behind the mask of the jew acting as the Nazi. They began as far as I can tell, in Russia during the Bolshevik revolution, moved on to Germany and settled in Is ra el, a fictitious place from religious doctrine.
Is Ra El ---> Ra El ians :P
Gigas, since you have posted the "Official Raelian Symbol", does that imply that you are a member of that group, or might be sympathetic to their thoughts and views? Their symbol certainly does bastardize the Jews "Star of Davie emblem, but I guess it is whatever works for some! :) Wiki does term Raelism as "a UFO religion"!! :))
Raelian Symbols - http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols/ig/Raelian-Symbols/Official-Raelian-Symbol.htm
Raelism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABlism
(http://s4.postimg.org/vw4fm4lct/Screen_Shot_2015_08_27_at_5_29_20_PM.jpg)
Just proves how easy it is to start a religion based on ONE person making up a story and how easily people fall for it
Christians have Mary bat Eli
(She told the story of an Alien that gave her a kid but left her a Virgin)
Islam has Ab? al-Q?sim Mu?ammad ibn ?Abd All?h ibn ?Abd al-Mu??alib ibn H?shim
(the last prophet sent by God to mankind. While non-Muslims generally regard Muhammad as the founder of Islam, Muslims consider him to have restored the unaltered original monotheistic faith of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets.)
Buddhists have Gautama Buddha
(Gautama Buddha rejected the existence of a creator deity, refused to endorse many views on creation and stated that questions on the origin of the world are not ultimately useful for ending suffering. Buddhism instead emphasizes the system of causal relationships underlying the universe [The force :P ]
Mormons have Joseph Smith
(Joseph Smith was called by God to restore the Church of Jesus Christ.)
Lutherans have Martin Luthor
( He didn't like Hell or selling green stamps to get into Heaven, and he allowed marriage of priests and was responsible for moving song and dance from Devil worship to Gospel Music)
ALL of them were HU-MONS -with a good story and look where they ended up today?
Rosicrucians have Akhenatin and Nefertiti
(That family had elongated skulls and were likely either Aliens or Ancients (like the skulls in Peru pre Inca)
Zorgon said, "Christians have Mary bat Eli
(She told the story of an Alien that gave her a kid but left her a Virgin)"
Z, as you well know, the story of Jesus does not start in the New Testament, where Mary comes into the picture. but rather the Old Testament is fraught with a plethora of scriptures of the coming Messiah Jesus.
Prophecies Jesus Fulfilled
The books of the Old Testament contain many passages about the Messiah—all prophecies Jesus Christ fulfilled. For instance, the crucifixion of Jesus was foretold in Psalm 22:16-18 approximately 1,000 years before Christ was born, long before this method of execution was even practiced.
Some Bible scholars suggest there are more than 300 prophetic Scriptures completed in the life of Jesus.
Just FYI - At this link are 44 Old Testament prophecies about Jesus that are fulfilled in the New Testament:
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsandlists/a/Prophecies-Jesus.htm
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/rainbow.gif)
Quote from: rdunk on August 28, 2015, 02:24:09 AM
Z, as you well know, the story of Jesus does not start in the New Testament, where Mary comes into the picture.
Nah You had to have Mary before Jesus... that's the way it works :P
Quotebut rather the Old Testament is fraught with a plethora of scriptures of the coming Messiah Jesus.
THAT Messiah hasn't come yet... ask any Jew :D
QuoteThe books of the Old Testament contain many passages about the Messiah—all prophecies Jesus Christ fulfilled. For instance, the crucifixion of Jesus was foretold in Psalm 22:16-18 approximately 1,000 years before Christ was born, long before this method of execution was even practiced.
The Roman's read the book and thought "hey this is a good idea!"
QuoteSome Bible scholars suggest there are more than 300 prophetic
"Suggest"? Hmmmm Power of suggestion, says Obi Wan, works best on weak minds :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=532j-186xEQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=532j-186xEQ
Its ALL about interpretation :P
Quote from: rdunk on August 28, 2015, 02:24:09 AM
For instance, the crucifixion of Jesus was foretold in Psalm 22:16-18 approximately 1,000 years before Christ was born, long before this method of execution was even practiced.
I am finishing reading "The History", by Herodotus, and he writes about a Persian general and governor of Sestos (Artaÿctes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artayctes)) being nailed "alive to a board with hands and feet extended" by the Athenians, and this happened in 479BC, so the method was already in use many years before.
Goes off to study Akhentaten....
Quote from: ArMaP on August 28, 2015, 11:31:01 AM
I am finishing reading "The History", by Herodotus, and he writes about a Persian general and governor of Sestos (Artaÿctes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artayctes)) being nailed "alive to a board with hands and feet extended" by the Athenians, and this happened in 479BC, so the method was already in use many years before.
Here is one statement about the "when" of Crucifixion from Encyclopedia Britannica:
Crucifixion, an important method of capital punishment particularly among the Persians, Seleucids, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century bce to the 4th century ce. Constantine the Great, the first Christian emperor, abolished it in the Roman Empire in the early 4th century ce out of veneration for Jesus Christ, the most famous victim of crucifixion.
So, I suppose that the writer of the statement that "the Psalm scriptures noted were written before the use of crucifixions were started" could be correct, whether it was 1000 years BC or 600 years BC!! :)
Quote from: rdunk on August 28, 2015, 03:58:16 PM
So, I suppose that the writer of the statement that "the Psalm scriptures noted were written before the use of crucifixions were started" could be correct, whether it was 1000 years BC or 600 years BC!! :)
Sure he could, I'm not that old. ;)
But we shouldn't forget that we are talking about an interpretation of what is written in the psalms.
Quote from: ArMaP on August 28, 2015, 04:49:21 PM
Sure he could, I'm not that old. ;)
But we shouldn't forget that we are talking about an interpretation of what is written in the psalms.
Yes, it is an interpretation, and it does seem from what is said, that the later Jesus to come is who is being referenced in the words, almost literally, doncha think? :) Especially when the rest of Psalm 22 is read too........! Of course remember, the words in the Old Covenant/Testament present a "shadow" of things to come during the New Covenant/Testament. So, there is much reason for the old and new to have understandable relevance in their words.
Quote from: rdunk on August 28, 2015, 06:57:50 PM
Yes, it is an interpretation, and it does seem from what is said, that the later Jesus to come is who is being referenced in the words, almost literally, doncha think? :)
Just as a note... Rosicrucians believe in Jesus too :D
Just that he is a Grand Master
Remember when he said that to his disciples he speaks plain truth but to ALL OTHERS he speaks in riddles so hearing, they do not understand?
Says so in your Book :D So if your not one of the Disciples :P you don't have the truth :P
Now I know YOU won't take a minute to read these :P but.. (hey at least I read YOUR book :P )
Harvey Spencer Lewis F.R.C., S:::I:::I:::, 33° 66° 95°, PhD
The Secret Doctrines of Jesus
by H. Spencer Lewis (Author) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0912057912/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=0912057912&link_code=as3&tag=pegasreseacon-20&linkId=S5VCQP4T6EMSSSPX)The Mystical Life of Jesus
by H. Spencer Lewis (Author) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0912057467/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=0912057467&link_code=as3&tag=pegasreseacon-20&linkId=OY643TNV4M2FCNA7)
Quote from: rdunk on August 28, 2015, 06:57:50 PM
Yes, it is an interpretation, and it does seem from what is said, that the later Jesus to come is who is being referenced in the words, almost literally, doncha think? :)
No, I do not. :)
Quote from: zorgon on August 28, 2015, 08:15:21 PM
Just as a note... Rosicrucians believe in Jesus too :D
Now I know YOU won't take a minute to read these :P but.. (hey at least I read YOUR book :P )
Harvey Spencer Lewis F.R.C., S:::I:::I:::, 33° 66° 95°, PhD
The Secret Doctrines of Jesus
by H. Spencer Lewis (Author) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0912057912/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=0912057912&link_code=as3&tag=pegasreseacon-20&linkId=S5VCQP4T6EMSSSPX)
The Mystical Life of Jesus
by H. Spencer Lewis (Author) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0912057467/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=0912057467&link_code=as3&tag=pegasreseacon-20&linkId=OY643TNV4M2FCNA7)
Of course you are right Zorgon, about my not taking the time to read the book titles you posted. I did take the time to look at a few reviews of these books, and.......thoughts expressed are a mixed bag as might be expected. I did see that Rosicrucianism was founded by Christian Rosenkreuz in the 1500's AD, so it is one of the "late bloomers" for religious groups being birthed since the Jesus of the New Covenant of the Bible.
The way I see it, the Jesus I know didn't and does not have a "mystical life, as he simply makes it very clear in what he says, that he only does what he sees the Father (God) do. Yes, there are some things Jesus chooses not to tell us, but still that should not denote "mystical - In John 16:12, Jesus says, "I have yet many things to say to you, but ye are not able to bear them now".
However, I am confident that Jesus later shared through his Apostles and others the "many things" (and maybe all) to which he was referring, and they included them later in their writings of the Gospels of the New Testament/NewCovenant.
Zorgon, I assume that you are secure in what you believe to be the truth, and you have self-assurance convincing reasons for what you believe..................me 2....... except, while I still have much to learn relative to what is in the Bible, I do know my name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life, and all else is secondary to that!! :)) †††
One other little note on this - the written Word is great, but it is not an absolute necessity for us because,.........vs10 -11 of Hebrews 8 God says: He will "write it into our minds and on our hearts"
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Quote from: rdunk on August 28, 2015, 10:02:22 PM
Of course you are right Zorgon, about my not taking the time to read the book titles you posted.
See? Now how can you learn anything if you discount EVRYTHING else and only say "But my book is real!!!"
The Library of Alexander was burned... because certain religions feared the contents might make people THINK
QuoteIn A. D. 391, riots instigated by fanatical Christians damaged the collection heavily. During the years between disastrous events, the library collection had been gradually restored. In 641, the Caliph of Baghdad exhibited the same spirit of religious fanaticism in ordering Amrou to burn the books stored there.
Early in the year A. D. 642, Alexandria surrendered to Amrou, the Islamic general leading the armies of Omar, Caliph of Baghdad. Long one of the most important cities of the ancient world and capital of Byzantine Egypt, Alexandria surrendered only after a long siege and attempts to rescue the city by the Byzantines. On the orders of Omar, Caliph of Baghdad, the entire collection of books (except for the works of Aristotle) stored at the Library of Alexandria were removed and used as fuel to heat water for the city's public baths.
Upon learning of "a great library containing all the knowledge of the world" the conquering general supposedly asked Caliph Omar for instructions. The Caliph has been quoted as saying of the Library's holdings, "they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous."
This is why Religion is so dangerous Here you have two OPPOSING religions burning the books for the same reason, but for different beliefs
Are YOU a book burner?
::)
QuoteI did take the time to look at a few reviews of these books, and.......thoughts expressed are a mixed bag as might be expected.
Depends on the person's belief on what the review says :P
QuoteI did see that Rosicrucianism was founded by Christian Rosenkreuz in the 1500's AD, so it is one of the "late bloomers" for religious groups being birthed since the Jesus of the New Covenant of the Bible.
That is partially true. That was one of the first PUBLIC orders. Even Wikipedia has the correct version :P
The Ancient and Mystical Order Rosæ Crucis (AMORC), also calling itself the Rosicrucian Order, is a Rosicrucianist organisation based in and primarily active in the United States. AMORC claims to be the modern day manifestation of the ancient Rose-Croix Order which they claim has its origin in the Ancient Egyptian mystery schools. These supposedly ancient mysteries, they claim, were preserved through the millenia by closed secret societies until the early years of 17th Century Europe. At that point, according to their internal mythology, the time was right for the existence of this body of secret knowledge to become open, i.e. revealed, to the world, in the form of the Rosicrucian's manifestos.
Whether or not you BELIEVE that version is irrelevant :P but the truth of it is in every conspiracy tale of the "Illuminati" There is no doubt in any ones mind that Free Masonry developed in Ancient Egypt They were the STONE MASONS... but the Masons only have 33 degrees of knowledge... there are 360 degrees in a full circle. The masons use the Pyramid and Eye of Ra... its on your dollar bill :P The Rosicrucian's combine the Cross with the Ankh This cross with the Rose predates any Christian use :D The cross represents man with arms stretched out, the rose is the heart (the Chakra, Chi, Life Force)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Mystical_Order_Rosae_Crucis#/media/File:Official_insignia_of_the_Rosicrucian_Order.jpg)
The Masons were the Builders, the RC were the Philosophers. People accuse the Masons of all sorts of secret rituals :P but the Masons are just a club of businessmen concerned with building (and money :D )
QuoteThe way I see it, the Jesus I know didn't and does not have a "mystical life, as he simply makes it very clear in what he says, that he only does what he sees the Father (God) do. Yes, there are some things Jesus chooses not to tell us, but still that should not denote "mystical - In John 16:12, Jesus says, "I have yet many things to say to you, but ye are not able to bear them now".
That is YOUR OPINION... but you do NOT know what Jesus did for 33 years what you Christians call the missing years. That is a full lifetime during the prime of his life. The Church has NO IDEA what he did in those years... There is strong evidence in old art work that He did visit Tibet and India... that hasn't been burned by the church yet :P
QuoteHowever, I am confident that Jesus later shared through his Apostles and others the "many things" (and maybe all) to which he was referring, and they included them later in their writings of the Gospels of the New Testament/NewCovenant.
How do you KNOW that he shared ALL? You have no basis in fact to support that. No one does. How can anyone know what someone doesn't say?
QuoteZorgon, I assume that you are secure in what you believe to be the truth, and you have self-assurance convincing reasons for what you believe..................me 2....... except, while I still have much to learn relative to what is in the Bible, I do know my name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life, and all else is secondary to that!! :)) †††
yes I KNOW... and because I KNOW I share with people who DON'T KNOW. However I do NOT try to convert anyone because one thing I KNOW is that we all have our own path and eventually we will all arrive at our destination, one chosen by US :D
So to me it doesn't matter... so long as A) it works for YOU and B) You don't burn my books and thump me with yours and C) you don't come to my door with a sales pitch
And yes your name IS on the Book of Life... the Akashic Records are real no matter what you want to call them... and when your body is Wyrm Food... you will get to read the current chapter and go...
(http://dailyrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Jesus-facepalm.jpg)
Quote
One other little note on this - the written Word is great, but it is not an absolute necessity for us because,.........vs10 -11 of Hebrews 8 God says: He will "write it into our minds and on our hearts"
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Yes but... most of us are NOT in the House of ISRAEL
The other problem with religious teaching that the "Word" is absolute... is that it has no room for modern science
The Qur'an says the Earth is flat so it has to be. Never mind that it is round, that is blasphemy
What does the Bible say about the Earth being flat? How about the Sun's Orbit? Seems the Church interpreted as a flat earth at the center of the Universe.
We all know today that is not true, the Church apologized to Galileo 350 years later and said; "Sorry for almost burning you at the stake, you were right!"
So how can the Book be 100% Gospell when reality says otherwise?
How can FAITH be right when reality says "The Earth, she's a round!"
And when a religion teaches the Children that Dinosaurs are not real (Baptists) you get THIS
(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11891226_992180624167935_4934143367341679793_n.jpg?oh=d285b220f41abddf47fbe446f3881844&oe=566EECD4)
I have a Dinosaur egg I want to sell it :P I suppose no Christian will be bidding on that :D
(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11889474_805383909580607_1936267696827728502_n.jpg?oh=6da1c3ff15aac0750d0e04b6213a5c1e&oe=567572D7)
Quote from: zorgon on August 29, 2015, 05:23:05 AM
(https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11889474_805383909580607_1936267696827728502_n.jpg?oh=6da1c3ff15aac0750d0e04b6213a5c1e&oe=567572D7)
And just after the mouse said that, this angel bat had a nice dinner, as some bats do eat mice!! :)
Lol sounds like God is trying to keep us from technology and science, knowledge. Ironic, we have raped the planet and bastardised ourselves since the fall in our pursuit of such things.
Z, to me your comments relative to Dinosaurs and Christianity are a bit funny. The lengths that a few people might go to try and prove some point can get to the side of ridiculous. I have been a Christian for 60 years, and I have never in all of that time heard any Christian teaching about dinosaurs, existing or not existing. I suppose a minimal point of dino relevance might be in dealing with the thought of "how old is this Earth, really"?
Of course there are the various many great bones laying around under the ground that have been found that must have come from somewhere. So, either the animals lived on this Earth, or........the bones were simply a part of what was the result of this world having been spoken into existence by the Creator at the time of creation, with either proposition being possible!! :)
IMO, except for some wanting to know every tid-bit about the historic past of this Earth, dinos are a very moooooooot point of discussion, except for those who manufacture toys, and make movies........ then that is where dinos get very real, with lots and lots of $$$$$$$!! :)) But other than that, to most people, Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, and Obi-Wan Kenobi are probably more real than are the dinos!! :)
Quote from: rdunk on August 29, 2015, 04:20:44 PM
Z, to me your comments relative to Dinosaurs and Christianity are a bit funny.
They are supposed to be :P Humor keeps us sane... But I have met several Baptists in the Renaissance guilds that will get very angry if you try to convince them Dinosaurs are real. I think Evangelists take the other direction that man and dinosaurs coexisted 5,000ish years ago (like the Flintstones :D)
There are several 'Creationist' websites I can point you to that have that idea
QuoteThe lengths that a few people might go to try and prove some point can get to the side of ridiculous. I have been a Christian for 60 years, and I have never in all of that time heard any Christian teaching about dinosaurs, existing or not existing. I suppose a minimal point of dino relevance might be in dealing with the thought of "how old is this Earth, really"?
That is because you are focused on only your perspective and are not seeking other explanations. While someone like me listens to everyone so I can better form my opions
Yes the issue is the Age of the Earth...
Google search:
baptists vs dinosaurs
The main issue
QuoteWhat does the Bible Says About Dinosaurs?
Genesis 1:20-25
Intro:
Evolutionists use dinosaurs to indoctrinate children that the earth is millions of years old, the proper interpretation of Genesis, and the dating of fossils. They believe the Bible does not mention dinosaurs and call them prehistoric animals.
Young earth creationists believe the Bible does mention dinosaurs and they existed with man and were created on the 5th and 6th day of creation.
Transition: What do we know about the Bible and dinosaurs?
The Bible does not use the word "dinosaur."
The Bible uses the Hebrew word "tanniyn" tan-neen. The word "dinosaur" was used in 1841 and meant "great lizard."
It is translated different ways in our English Bible. It is called "sea monster," "serpent," and it is commonly translated "dragon."
Many believe they were some sort of giant reptiles and are mentioned nearly 35 times in the Old Testament and are found both on land and water.
Dinosaurs existed with man.
The flying and sea dinosaurs were created on the 5th day and the land dinosaurs were created on the 6th day.
Two of every kind were taken on the ark [Gen. 7:9.] Those not on the ark drowned and others went extinct because of the change in climate, loss of habitat, disease and stalked by man.
They existed friendly with man and did not fear man till after the flood [Gen. 9:2].
Nearly every ancient civilization has some sort of art depicting giant reptile creatures.
a. Rock carvings in South America depict men riding dinosaur like creatures. Marco Polo reported sightings of dinosaur like creatures.
b. They have discovered fossilized footprints of humans and dinosaurs found together in North America and West-Central Asia.
c. The first dinosaur fossil was discovered in the 1820's.
The Bible describes two dinosaurs-like creatures.
Behemoth– [Job 40:15-24]. Colossal beast
a. Some have tried to identify this as an elephant or a hippopotamus. What is missing if it is a elephant, then the large trunk and ears are not mentioned. Many believe this large animal was a dinosaur.
b. Hippo's and elephants have small tails, not like a cedar. The word tail is translated as "trunk."
Leviathan– [Job 41:1-34. Large sea creature
a. Four other O.T. texts refer to this large sea creature [Job 3:8; Ps. 74:13-14; 104:25-26; Is. 27:1].
b. Some have tried to say this is a crocodile. Crocodiles are not sea creatures. Some believe it is a killer whale or Great White Shark.
http://mytrinitybaptist.org/what-does-the-bible-says-about-dinosaurs/
QuoteOf course there are the various many great bones laying around under the ground that have been found that must have come from somewhere. So, either the animals lived on this Earth, or........the bones were simply a part of what was the result of this world having been spoken into existence by the Creator at the time of creation, with either proposition being possible!! :)
Yes I have heard that one... that God just added Dino bones into the matrix. It's a great cop out :P Myself I am going with "They lived on this Earth MILLIONS of years ago and because of that I cannot take your book seriously
QuoteIMO, except for some wanting to know every tid-bit about the historic past of this Earth, dinos are a very moooooooot point of discussion, except for those who manufacture toys, and make movies........ then that is where dinos get very real, with lots and lots of $$$$$$$!! :)) But other than that, to most people, Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, and Obi-Wan Kenobi are probably more real than are the dinos!! :)
There are thousands of entries on the net about the discussion of dinos. The Baptists are the worst. If Dinos are prehistoric then the Earth is older than Creation by several billion years. To say the discussion of Dinos is a moot point just shows the desperation to avoid a topic that gets to the very heart of reality.
You HAVE to deny dinosaurs to maintain your faith, because to accept dinos as being real and millions of years old would contradict your book.
So I DO understand your dilemma... :D but because of Dinosaurs I can never believe your version of reality
(http://hdwallpaperhub.net/wallpapers/m/85/cute_dinosaurs_baby_m84281.jpg)
So it is no surprise that some religions want to ignore any discussion about dinos
Z said, "You HAVE to deny dinosaurs to maintain your faith, because to accept dinos as being real and millions of years old would contradict your book.
So I DO understand your dilemma... :D but because of Dinosaurs I can never believe your version of reality"
No Z, I and we Christians do not have to deny anything to maintain our faith! Denying "self" is a help in our walk of faith, however, Christianity is not about denying stuff, but rather it is simply accepting the Word of God as THE TRUTH, FOR NOW, AND FOREVER MORE.
Dinos are no problem for me, nor for any other Christians that I know. I do understand that it is difficult for non-Christians to understand the simplicity of what is in the Bible ("your book") that you mentioned, but Christianity is totally open to all/for to see! There are no hidden/secret concepts that have to be learned, but kept secret. The focus of all we Christians needs to be on God first, and than on all others, as there is "not much time left".
Okay LOL "no time left for Dinosaurs" Gotcha.... That is sad really when you think about it
May you enjoy your Bliss :D
One last question...
IF as you say God put the bones in the Earth for a pre programed 'history' would He not have wanted you to be interested in Dino's?
Otherwise there would be no point to adding Dinos
If God made this world in all its beauty WHY are people wasting time butting heads against a wall or kissing pavement? Hard to see the Beauty that way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhTfkcVcT9c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhTfkcVcT9c
Zorgon said, One last question...
IF as you say God put the bones in the Earth for a pre programed 'history' would He not have wanted you to be interested in Dino's?
Otherwise there would be no point to adding Dinos
Well Zorgon, since you asked............ 1st I would say, addressing the why's of God's creation is beyond the mind of man to accurately do. But there are specific things that God does speak to that we certainly can bring to focus, if seemingly applicable. "IF"........... by purpose God included "dino bones" during creation, when there were never any real dinos, it could have been because He wanted to intentionally "CONFOUND THE WISE", rather than for Christians to be/become interested in dinos! :)
In 1 Corinthians chapter 1, the Apostle Paul (an extreme anti-Christian, until his conversion) speaks directly to the people at Corinth, about who he was, about what he was doing, about who they were, and about how God's message to some is "on purpose foolishness"! And verses 18 thru the rest of Corinthians 1 specifically details how God has presented, for some, things of foolishness and stumbling blocks. While vs 27 simply says it very directly, I think it worthwhile to include here vs 18-31, so that one can get a complete picture of God's thinking, relative to his presenting His Son Jesus to all men.
Please note: I am not suggesting that for sure God did or did not add dino bones to the ground. I will say for sure, God did speak all things into existence, "so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" (Hebrews 1:3)!
1 Corinthians:
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
rdunk, can I get a clear answer, please?
What's your opinion about dinosaurs? Did they exist or not? If they existed, when?
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: ArMaP on August 30, 2015, 05:41:20 PM
rdunk, can I get a clear answer, please?
What's your opinion about dinosaurs? Did they exist or not? If they existed, when?
Thanks in advance.
ArMaP, whatever the answer is about dinosaurs, it absolutely makes no meaningful difference to us today, whether they existed or didn't exist. The same goes for the so-called pre-historic man figures, occasionally found in various places. :)
My "opinion" about dinos...............some probably did exist, because "seemingly", a few still exist today, some of which we are all familiar with - like crocs and alligators. These animals' ancestors go back 100-150 million years ago, again according to "what as been found", in the ground!
Of course, any type of dating to determine "how old" "could" also be simply "not being what it appears! :) It does seem that man can make all kinds of potential erroneous assumptions on the basis of "so that things which are seen are not made of things which do appear"!
Wanting a "clear" answer? According to scriptures mentioned in this thread, the "answers" can become much more clear, after a person becomes a Christian....................., and the Apostle Paul is a good "for example" of that. He was killing Christians, before he was saved, and from the moment he was saved, he began preaching about Jesus. Paul's writings are included in many of the Books of the New Testament of the Bible. :)
Quote from: rdunk on August 30, 2015, 09:44:39 PM
ArMaP, whatever the answer is about dinosaurs, it absolutely makes no meaningful difference to us today, whether they existed or didn't exist. The same goes for the so-called pre-historic man figures, occasionally found in various places. :)
That's not what I asked you, was it?
QuoteMy "opinion" about dinos...............some probably did exist, because "seemingly", a few still exist today, some of which we are all familiar with - like crocs and alligators. These animals' ancestors go back 100-150 million years ago, again according to "what as been found", in the ground!
You don't think other animals existed and became extinct?
QuoteWanting a "clear" answer?
Yes, clear answers instead of avoiding answering or answering to things I didn't ask. ::)
QuoteAccording to scriptures mentioned in this thread, the "answers" can become much more clear, after a person becomes a Christian....................., and the Apostle Paul is a good "for example" of that. He was killing Christians, before he was saved, and from the moment he was saved, he began preaching about Jesus. Paul's writings are included in many of the Books of the New Testament of the Bible. :)
See, that's what I meant about "clear answers", I didn't ask about the scriptures, I asked about your opinion, if I want to know what the scriptures say I will ask about them.
ArMaP said, "See, that's what I meant about "clear answers", I didn't ask about the scriptures, I asked about your opinion, if I want to know what the scriptures say I will ask about them".
ArMaP, the reality of forum discussion is.............you get to ask question however you wish, and I and all have the privilege of answering your questions however we wish. That is called communications, and hopefully results in some gain/benefit for all parties.
There is much spiritual stuff taking place at all times on this planet, irrespective of differences in opinions and outlooks - some good and some bad! Sometimes spiritual answers are necessary about seemingly non-spiritual stuff. All of this did start with Z's "one last question" to me about Dinos, and he did mention "my book" referring to my Bible. So............. :)
Quote from: rdunk on August 30, 2015, 10:57:56 PM
ArMaP, the reality of forum discussion is.............you get to ask question however you wish, and I and all have the privilege of answering your questions however we wish.
I know that, but when I ask something I like to know the answer (after all, that's why I asked it). In this case, I asked your opinion about dinosaurs, so I was not interested in what the scriptures say.
QuoteThat is called communications, and hopefully results in some gain/benefit for all parties.
When you answer with irrelevant information the communication becomes a waste of time, without any benefit for any part, as was the case.
QuoteThere is much spiritual stuff taking place at all times on this planet, irrespective of differences in opinions and outlooks - some good and some bad!
My question was not about spirituality, it was about dinosaurs.
QuoteSometimes spiritual answers are necessary about seemingly non-spiritual stuff.
It may look like that if those are the only answers you know, like the saying "when you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail". Me, I'm not interested in spiritual answers, I just ignore them, but I have to read them, so they just waste my time.
QuoteAll of this did start with Z's "one last question" to me about Dinos, and he did mention "my book" referring to my Bible. So............. :)
I'm not
zorgon and I didn't ask about any book.
Quote from: rdunk on August 30, 2015, 05:34:03 PM
1st I would say, addressing the why's of God's creation is beyond the mind of man to accurately do.
Hmmm Nope if we can ask it we can comprehend it... nothing in that Book says we do not have the ability to understand if given the facts straight.
QuoteBut there are specific things that God does speak to that we certainly can bring to focus, if seemingly applicable. "IF"........... by purpose God included "dino bones" during creation, when there were never any real dinos, it could have been because He wanted to intentionally "CONFOUND THE WISE", rather than for Christians to be/become interested in dinos! :)
Well the WISE are not confounded ... we believe in Dinosaurs and can dig up the bones and test them for age :P The WISE can also look into space and see light from starts billions of years in the fast because the WISE know (and can measure) the speed of light... so it is the Christians that are confounded because Jesus only spoke to you guys in riddles :D
QuotePlease note: I am not suggesting that for sure God did or did not add dino bones to the ground. I will say for sure, God did speak all things into existence, "so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" (Hebrews 1:3)!
Noted :P but you quote more riddles :D
Like ArMaP said..
How about just making a staement on your own without quotes something from thousands of years ago
Do YOU believe Dinos are real or not? Just a straight answer with your own words... Try it you won't go to that hot place for speaking your own mind :D (At least not about Dinos :P )
Quote from: rdunk on August 30, 2015, 10:57:56 PM
ArMaP, the reality of forum discussion is.............you get to ask question however you wish, and I and all have the privilege of answering your questions however we wish. That is called communications, and hopefully results in some gain/benefit for all parties.
"What we have here is failure to communicate" Somebody said that :P
This is why it is frustrating at times to discuss with Christians... They are so afraid to make an opinion on their own without having to quote scripture.
Yes it is your right... yes it is the belief you are comfortable with
but it doesn't give us any answers so in the end we just have to agree to disagree :D
One thing to note
The Roman Catholic Church finally admitted after 350 years that Galileo was right and apologized to him...
I wonder what their position on Dinosaurs is now?
After All they do have their own Observatories and are set to Baptize Aliens...
So maybe there is hope after all :P
Quote from: zorgon on August 31, 2015, 05:34:26 AM
One thing to note
The Roman Catholic Church finally admitted after 350 years that Galileo was right and apologized to him...
I wonder what their position on Dinosaurs is now?
After All they do have their own Observatories and are set to Baptize Aliens...
So maybe there is hope after all :P
On that "note", it shows how far off the "Catholic thinking" may be - do they not understand that it was because of man's sin on this Earth, that God had to sacrifice his Son, to make a way for the redemption of man. Beings not of this Earth would not need to be "saved/baptized", as they would not be under the curse of sinful Earthman. :P :P
Well they may be off base in your eyes :P but seems they answer the questions so I went and asked them :P
Can Catholics believe in a literal six-day creation?
Is there room in the Catholic Church for a Christian that believes wholeheartedly in a literal 24-hour 6-day creation? I've only met with snide remarks and that look in the eye of Catholics that says, "You're nuts for believing in such fairytales."
To date, a Catholic is free to consider all of the possibilities that surround the amount of time surrounding creation, which include both the possibility of a literal six 24-hour days and the possibility that the six days are symbolic of a much longer time period. To my knowledge, so far the Church has not given an authoritative interpretation of the six days in the first two chapters of Genesis, although the Church has been open in recent years to symbolic interpretations:
Is the earth 5,700 years old?
Would the Catholic Church agree with Jews for Jesus that the age of the earth is about 5,700 years?
Without a quote that can be positively attributed to Jews for Jesus that it holds the earth to be 5,700 years old, I cannot comment on what Jews for Jesus believes about the age of the earth. For a statement of faith by that organization, click here.
Absent a statement to examine, there might be one sense in which Messianic Jews believe the world to be about 5,700 years old. The Hebrew calendar, which is said to date from the creation of the earth, reckons 2005 on the Gregorian calendar to be 5765. While there may be non-Christian Jews and Messianic Jews who consider this date to be literal, many understand the calendar in a liturgical sense. Just as Christians recognize that the Gregorian calendar does not date exactly to the birth of Christ but retain the calendar because of centuries of liturgical and secular custom, so many Jews do not necessarily believe that the Hebrew calendar dates to the literal creation of the world but retain it because of centuries of liturgical and cultural custom.
The Catholic Church leaves questions such as the literal age of the world to science. While it is theoretically possible that the earth is young, modern science indicates that the likelihood is that the earth is much older. Should science prove the earth to be millions of years old, the Church would not have any problem accepting such a determination.
Why did God create dinosaurs?
I'm trying to answer a question posed to me by an atheist and I'm stumped. Why did God create dinosaurs? If prevailing evolutionary theories are true, why would God create dinosaurs that we would never see in person but only in the fossil record?
The Church doesn't take a position on the existence of dinosaurs. This is a question for science, not theology.
The existence of dinosaurs forces believers to more deeply understand their religion and thus more deeply understand God's hand at work in the world. Questions of the creation of the universe are thrown into a new light and we are forced to re-assess the merit of apparently simple understandings of divine revelation through the Church and the Bible
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7c/2d/45/7c2d45f33e0249080d190f08469ddd7d.jpg)
QuoteQuote from: rdunk on August 30, 2015, 12:34:03 PM
1st I would say, addressing the why's of God's creation is beyond the mind of man to accurately do.
bwhahahahahahahah that fits the definition of gnostic...who would have rdunk'd (thunk) it...
(http://main.dailyotter.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/tumblr_lbivyqRXyC1qzs75go1_1280.jpg)
laughing otter
Quote from: space otter on August 31, 2015, 04:07:08 PM
bwhahahahahahahah that fits the definition of gnostic...who would have rdunk'd (thunk) it...
(http://main.dailyotter.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/tumblr_lbivyqRXyC1qzs75go1_1280.jpg)
laughing otter
I can laugh with you, but my thought expressed has very serious basis. The Bible states very directly that "no one can know the mind of God except the Spirit of God". 1 Corinthians 2:11 "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God".
So, my thought expressed about the "whys of God's creation" still stands - no man can know!! Of course, some do take the liberty of guessing at God's creation, but that is all they are - unknowing guesses! :)
Biblical thinking...
(http://i2.wp.com/www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Edge-of-the-World-port.jpg)
Modern thinking...
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/23/article-2105388-0824E6EC000005DC-994_468x430.jpg)
So how did that idea get accepted by Christians and Muslims?
Quote from: zorgon on August 31, 2015, 09:58:09 PM
Biblical thinking...
(http://i2.wp.com/www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Edge-of-the-World-port.jpg)
Is it really?
NO~! I am certain that God knew the shape of the Earth he spoke into existence. ::)
Quote from: rdunk on August 31, 2015, 10:16:41 PM
NO~! I am certain that God knew the shape of the Earth he spoke into existence. ::)
He probably did... so I suppose the question should be
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the Earth is flat, egg shaped or round?
It must be somewhere because the early Christians were convinced that it was flat and the center of the Universe
So did they make that up or did they get the inference from the Book
This time I expect quotes of scripture :P
Quote from: zorgon on September 01, 2015, 12:13:12 AM
He probably did... so I suppose the question should be
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the Earth is flat, egg shaped or round?
It must be somewhere because the early Christians were convinced that it was flat and the center of the Universe
So did they make that up or did they get the inference from the Book
This time I expect quotes of scripture :P
Hey Z, what is your fixation of interest about the Bible relative to the shape of the Earth?? :P I have been a Christian for about 60 years, have read and studied the Bible a fair amount, have listened to much sermons and teaching on the Bible, and not even one time have I had any thought or question about the biblical shape of the Earth. Nor do I know any other Christian who has thought any different than I have on this subject.
My primary thinking on this is, any thought about the shape of the earth makes absolutely no difference to the reality of the spiritual outcomes of what is presented in the Bible, NOT ANY! To me, even discussing the subject would be closely similar in outcomes to discussing the fact that iron rusts -- we could discuss both all day, but the resulting outcomes for the shape of the earth would yield the same spiritual matters and iron would still continue to RUST - constants remain constants!
But to your question of interest Z, I did look, and I fairly quickly found a scripture in the Bible that should cause one to think that the round shape of the Earth was simply a part of knowledge/knowing of the inspired writers.
Isaiah 40:22 says, "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"
Considering that there would be "no circles" relative to a "flat Earth description", I think we can easily assume that Isaiah knew that he was referring to a spherical/round Earth.
I hope this helps a little on this subject!! :)
Z, in thinking about this a little more, flat Earth or Round Earth, neither would have made any difference in people of the time becoming Christians - shape of the Earth would not have been a conscious factor as people were giving their lives to Jesus Christ.
But, from what we, know about those times, even a lots of hundreds of years later, the common knowledge of the time was "the Earth was flat" (wasn't it common knowledge thinking?). Therefore, even the typical Christians would have still been a part of the general crowd that still said that the Earth was flat, and likely would have continued to say that until SOMEBODY proved different. And that such proof would for sure have to come from somewhere other than the Bible - the Bible is not a science book, but rather is for the primary purpose of bringing man to a personal relationship with God, in Jesus Christ. :)
Quote from: rdunk on September 01, 2015, 03:44:41 AM
Z, in thinking about this a little more, flat Earth or Round Earth, neither would have made any difference in people of the time becoming Christians - shape of the Earth would not have been a conscious factor as people were giving their lives to Jesus Christ.
The people... no they were to busy surviving to care. But the Powers That Be in the day... they must have got the idea from SOMEWHERE..
The Qur'an doesn't actually say flat or round ... it says the earth is like a carpet, covering that which is below. So one Islamic Cleric points out that you can put a carpet over a curved surface :D
It is amusing to see some Islamic clerics trying to describe the Earth One outright says all Western science is LIES that only Qur'anic science should be taught in the schools and the Saudi uses an airplane to prove that the Earth has to be stationary :D They say "NASA LIES" :P
QuoteBut, from what we, know about those times, even a lots of hundreds of years later, the common knowledge of the time was "the Earth was flat" (wasn't it common knowledge thinking?). Therefore, even the typical Christians would have still been a part of the general crowd that still said that the Earth was flat, and likely would have continued to say that until SOMEBODY proved different. And that such proof would for sure have to come from somewhere other than the Bible - the Bible is not a science book, but rather is for the primary purpose of bringing man to a personal relationship with God, in Jesus Christ. :)
LOL Now that was a good answer. No scripture when in this case scripture was wanted :P
LOL Ron, you are so busy, you missed the "scripture" - look back at reply #49 - I even put a small part of it in red, just to make it more noticeable!! :))
Quote from: rdunk on September 01, 2015, 03:31:02 AM
Hey Z, what is your fixation of interest about the Bible relative to the shape of the Earth?? :P
The Saudis are to blame :P They have been making public videos on things like that. They even called for one NASA oriented movie to be banned because it was a lie :D
But what I am looking for is to understand how Christians deal with the reality that science shows when it butts heads with conceived notions, not only Christian but I don't have a Muslim here to ask :P. You seem to be able to accept the round earth being out in the rim worlds of nowhere :P but your balking on dinosaurs
Most Christians would several pages back have taken the "Why are you persecuting me?" approach and run away mad
QuoteMy primary thinking on this is, any thought about the shape of the earth makes absolutely no difference to the reality of the spiritual outcomes of what is presented in the Bible, NOT ANY!
So if Dinos were real and several hundred million years old no problem? :P
QuoteTo me, even discussing the subject would be closely similar in outcomes to discussing the fact that iron rusts -- we could discuss both all day, but the resulting outcomes for the shape of the earth would yield the same spiritual matters and iron would still continue to RUST - constants remain constants!
Take it out of the oxygen and it doesn't rust. Heat the rust and get iron. And water is hydrogen rust :P
But to your question of interest Z, I did look, and I fairly quickly found a scripture in the Bible that should cause one to think that the round shape of the Earth was simply a part of knowledge/knowing of the inspired writers.
QuoteIsaiah 40:22 says, "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"
Considering that there would be "no circles" relative to a "flat Earth description", I think we can easily assume that Isaiah knew that he was referring to a spherical/round Earth.
Thank you!!!!
QuoteI hope this helps a little on this subject!! :)
It does... Now I need to study Isaiah and see if he got a ride on a "GLORY" Bwahahahaha
Quote from: rdunk on September 01, 2015, 06:48:14 AM
LOL Ron, you are so busy, you missed the "scripture" - look back at reply #49 - I even put a small part of it in red, just to make it more noticeable!! :))
No I just type slow :P
One funny thing about the flat Earth is that the idea that people believed in it is relatively recent, probably to discredit the previous eras.
One interesting thing I found on Herodotus' "The Histories" was an account of some Phoenician explorers sent by an Egyptian Pharaoh some 500 years before the Christian Era to circumnavigate Africa from the east to west, and one thing they told when they came back was that they had the Sun to their right, something that Herodotus didn't believe but that could be explained if the Earth was round.
Eratosthenes, around 200 BC, was able to calculate the Earth's circumference.
Quote from: ArMaP on September 01, 2015, 01:14:36 PM
One funny thing about the flat Earth is that the idea that people believed in it is relatively recent, probably to discredit the previous eras.
Yes but what is scary is that the Flat Earthers are gaining strength once again.... Till recently the talk was of a hollow earth, now face book and twitter ...its all flat Earth with Islamic and Saudi Clerics at the top of the list. It has become a huge issue of debate in Islam and mirrored in the west. This is why I brought that up :P
QuoteOne interesting thing I found on Herodotus' "The Histories" was an account of some Phoenician explorers sent by an Egyptian Pharaoh some 500 years before the Christian Era to circumnavigate Africa from the east to west, and one thing they told when they came back was that they had the Sun to their right, something that Herodotus didn't believe but that could be explained if the Earth was round.
I did not know this. I will have to look at that
QuoteEratosthenes, around 200 BC, was able to calculate the Earth's circumference.
Imagine what else they had written in that library, all burned by Religion that was uncomfortable with scientific truth :P
And that Antikythera mechanism a highly detailed and intricate computer of the solar system... I am still thinking that one was left behind by Atlantis