After seeing another story on Reddit's /r/conspiracy about police brutalising civilians at Standing Rock, I've found myself starting to wonder about the modern training program that police must undergo, after initial recruitment. It made me speculate that perhaps said training is deliberately intended to induce post traumatic stress disorder, in order to cause police to be more willing to engage in extreme violence towards their fellow human beings.
The reason why I've had this thought, is because the sort of brutality that I've consistently been seeing from police over the last ten to fifteen years, is nowhere close to normal human behaviour. I am beginning to think that there may be an administrative agenda to not only desensitise police to the commission of horrific violence, but to also render them immune to any attempts at either rational or emotional appeal that civilian protesters at events such as Standing Rock, may make.
If I am right about this, then it also means that resentment or negative emotion directed towards police is inappropriate, because in reality, they are also victims themselves. They are being abused first, and they are being taught to pass that abuse on to others. We need to find a way to prevent the relevant, corrupt authorities from continuing that campaign.
If anyone can find any evidence in support of this theory, it would be appreciated.
2 that i can think of.
Fighting in training causing head trauma.
Radar guns long running effects on brain.
Do we need police training reform?
It already happened. After the modern age of false flags post 9/11 we got the police militarisation. Remember boston?
The psyop slogan immediately throwed at people, "Boston strong"? Well people letting police invade their houses without a warrant was everything but strong. Boston was a glimpse of what you see today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ1-ZUN3Li0
Is the person that choose the police path guilty? Well we always have a choice, see what snowden did. Now, i guess they have a very accurate profile to pick people to the job, if i am correct. And that may be the core of the problem.
Maybe Im just depressed by the way I see things being unfold but to me, there is a very specific/calculated agenda being followed.
If people hated your guts and made no secret of it, if people called you rotten names all the time, if people refused to cooperate with you in the simplest manner when asked for identification, if people spat on you and fought with you for no good reason, if your superiors told you not to enforce the law in order to appease rioters, if people were just plain s****y to you because they resent what you represent you'd probably have a crappy attitude too.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding amongst the public about what police are required to do and how they are required to do it.
The general public hasn't got a clue what goes on in these subcultures. These men and women are allowed to retire early because of the extreme stress they endure every day for years. This includes prison guards. On average, they die within five years of retirement, which is usually around 55 to 60.
Addressing specific statements -
Militarization: Necessary due to the adversarial nature of the modern criminal and the presence of terrorism and advanced weaponry on the streets. Legally, police are allowed to use force one step higher than the perp(s).
Training: Police are not trained to be deliberately abusive. They spend a lot of time in the classroom on arrest, search, and seizure, studying statutes. They learn how to defend themselves with various weapons and their own bodies. They learn how to drive. They learn ethics, techniques for dealing with juveniles and the mentally ill and a million other things like first aid and CPR.
The media is responsible for hyping isolated incidents and always depicting them in the worst light. I believe the media is largely responsible for much of the violence we see related to these cases. Their altruism is a lie.
As regards the apparent aggressiveness of the police, I challenge you to participate in a high speed chase, a foot chase, wrestle with one or more suspects, or be shot at and instantly turn off the rush of adrenaline that has helped you focus on survival. It ain't happenin'.
The public wants perfection from its street warriors, but isn't prepared to expect it of themselves in their interactions with the police, et al. This is the worst kind of hypocrisy.
Treat others as you want to be treated yourself. Be a respectable citizen in your interaction with public officials. You'll find they will professionally reciprocate.
irene,
i totally disagree,radio towerhands,crane operators,folks on scaffolding have way riskiers jobs,get paid less,get no gratitude or parade for their work.
they dont use radio survellience gear to stalk and harass people like certain underclass in this country are abused by religiously.
nurses also have more dangerous jobs than cops,ill take a car chase over a meth head covered in sores any day.
and whats with the drug war?
not enough robbers and thieves?
time to step down if you are too stupid to realize the drug war is illegal,and an illegal law!
No comment. ::)
Except . . .
No one is threatening to and assassinating/executing the people you mentioned.
If you've never worn a uniform then you have no idea what it's like.
what really shocked me was i missed the last year of southpark and just got the whole season,the season is called pc police.its even pointing out police issues throughout.very enlightening even though i think sp slacked some in last years season.cops shooting kids,beating up blacks,chief getting fired and rehired twice.and most admirably,how much political correctness is enough or too much?
an issue im very well experienced in ,as a forum troll of sorts.
Quote from: Irene on December 03, 2016, 03:10:27 PM
No comment. ::)
Except . . .
No one is threatening to and assassinating/executing the people you mentioned.
If you've never worn a uniform then you have no idea what it's like.
every day a man works is a day of his life at a certain value,when a man is fined,its a form of death for that day was fruitless.cops issue death every day.how do you kill a tiger,one bite at a time .man is not perfect but cops expect us to be or threaten us with death,who drew first blood i ask?
If you don't like the law, then change it. Until then follow the law or we become lawless and I'm sure everybody wants that, right?...
When somebody steals your car, what call the police? of course not..... ::)
When somebody assaults you, what call the police? of course not..... ::)
When somebody is breaking into your home, what call the police? of course not..... ::)
They are human beings and as such are imperfect.....
Rock 8)
www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oakland-sex-scandal-20160613-snap-story.html
when politicians cheat the law,their is no law,53% of the population want weed legal,florida tried dragging their heels and got it legal 2 years later.
texas governor had complete legalization on his desk and wouldnt sign it then months later passed hate speach agsinst cops law.texas law is a joke.
i got 10 cops fired in last 6 months .and turned in a serial killer.
and im a FELON,yea cops need training,so does a texas district attorny and a governor,but i cant be everywhere and not get paid for my services either.
some of us are above the law,ie my signature.
In some ref to some Police not acting as well as maybe they should..or them being too aggressive etc..
Alex Jones claimed that the corrupt system was deliberately recruiting certain types of Personalities who maybe were more like that and who maybe normally would not had made the expected grade that they used to require...He even suggested that they were replacing of many of the more Honest good Cops..
Is it to show a more overall aggressive presence, Maybe...
But that maybe was when he was suggesting that Martial Law was likely to be brought in...
I wonder if there maybe some changes to counter this now that Donald trump is in power ? but it will take time to alter.
It is concerning if Police do now seem to have a much more fearful presence ...and that they may tend to over react with too much aggression..
but I also am aware of the dangers of the job and fears that they have to deal with day to day that many of us could not deal with.
Is society also overall much more a dangerous place for them to have to deal with ? that has also made them act more aggressive..
at some stages , maybe so...
But also a LOT of Fear may have been installed into Society created by the NWO...and it may still be a ploy by them to try to put more fear and control into us all and have a more fearful Police Presence..
I know some Companies will employ more dominant aggressive bully type Personalities and put them in supervisor / manager rolls... and they also use some fear tactics to get them to be the ones who command over the general workforce to get them to work at higher rates or to do things in a way that many employees may resent. Many average employees dare not question them...
and if they do they maybe seen as trouble makers..and have their cards marked...
It probably does get results using fear tactics in many businesses...
I still think often its law of the jungle and down to pecking order as to where many folk stand...and down to fate and luck as to where one stands or what type our personalities maybe to deal with it...
and its still similar to being controlled by many fear tactics other than we no longer have to face the whip or hangman...
It does take a certain kind of person to do the job and I admit to observing some perverse and disturbing behavior, but I have observed those same behaviors in the general population as well.
After 30 years working in various areas of law enforcement with various agencies, I can honestly say only three incidents stick with me as having been wrong. All of them were psychological in nature and a direct result of personalities warped by the job.
The job changes you. The abuse I spoke of in the first paragraph in my initial post in this thread changes you. When I started in the business I was a babe in the woods. When I retired I was a battle-hardened cynic who trusted no one and, for the most part, that is what I still am.
You cannot send people to war and expect them to return from battle unscathed.
I have PTSD. My body failed me from the years of extreme stress and physicality required by the job. I am not the person I was.
The job destroyed me. I started in the Explorers at 16, so you know how long I lasted, how long I struggled towards my career goals. I didn't quite make it.
The job kills, and what it doesn't kill it rots from the inside out.
I don't know why it is, but the public does not extend the street warrior the same understanding as it does the military warrior. We are doing the same job on two different battlefields with two somewhat different sets of rules.
explorer here too,vice president of arrowhead district and vp of local club.had a blast.
the major problem is the up front training.its usually a x military whose mind is already gone.
the second is constitutional law,live it.state law takes a back seat to it.
third,grow a set and use them against your leadership to the exact same standards with even more scrutiny.
give up stingray or never get a tittle of respect.this is a foundation stone.
guns are for goons,not needed.anything can be talked down with patience , respect and or intelligence.
i know,had many a gun in my face.
last the state needs to forgive or dont expect citizens too.as corporations are now persons,cops are mercenaries working for a person,this person should be held accountable for every iota.would you let mcdonalds murder citizens without closing them down?
the states need to reevaluate their positions as they are all on weak ground right now ,as far as law goes.
There is nothing wrong with the training. If anything, officers should get more time covering certain aspects of the training.
LE does follow the Constitution and Miranda, et al. Believe me, we live and breathe law. There are circumstances where mistakes are made. We are human beings.
The problem is that we aren't allowed to be human. We are expected to be superhuman, to get everything we do absolutely right.
Life doesn't work that way.
There is no way I'm going to face down a heavily armed gang or drug dealer or domestic with a baton. That there is outright stupidity and I don't do stupidity.
Regarding the forgiveness you requested, you misunderstand the purpose of the police and confuse them with the judiciary. LE has the heavy responsibility of enforcing the law. It is up to the judicial branch to interpret it.
Flippant judges make our job harder by being lenient. Many innocent people have paid the price for forgiveness from the bench and LE has been repeatedly put in harm's way because of it.
Irene, I commend you and thank you for your years of dedicated service; right now my daughter in law is a deputy sheriff, my son in law is a gunny in the corps, and one of my good friends is a swat team member and detective lieutenant 8)
8)
Seeker
Quote from: Irene on December 03, 2016, 12:43:20 PM
The public wants perfection from its street warriors, but isn't prepared to expect it of themselves in their interactions with the police, et al. This is the worst kind of hypocrisy
I don't want perfection I just want to see the police police themselves. When a cop goes BAD, they should be removed, fired or charged with a crime depending on the case.
As long as it is swept under the table, or they get relocated, or given paid leaves... trust will continue to be going downhill
In fairness it is starting to change like those two cops charged with murder in New Mexico for killing a homeless guy, his only offense was 'illegal camping' (sleeping near some rocks on BLM (public) land
You would think that police have a hard enough time as it is, that they would WANT to get rid of the bad apples to protect their own name
The other case here in Henderson NV where a team of Swat guys invaded a home... the only reason being it was hot outside and they wanted a cool place to watch the neighbor. They hancuffed and arrested the home owner for refusing to allow them in to his home, they tossed the dog out into the yard with no water in the Vegas heat. They justified it using a wartime act that allows them to commandere a home.
The owner did win a law suit of several million
You would think those millions would be better spent on paychecks or equipment
QuoteTreat others as you want to be treated yourself. Be a respectable citizen in your interaction with public officials. You'll find they will professionally reciprocate.
Alway have and always do the Yes sir, sorry sir bit and that has gotten me off many a speeding ticket in my wilder days :P However a few years ago I was coming home from dropping my daughter at work. I made a uturn in front ogf my house to park as I always do... As I was half way in the turn this cop (yes I saw him behind me but he had no lights on) flys up blocking me and starts yelling... turn off the car hands where I can see them... WTF? I have no warrants tickets NADA
So when he finds out I live at that house he becaomes more apologetic... I ask him why he stopped me I had one tail light out.
::)
Another case The house behind us was a gang nest One day the area was swarming with cop cars and helicopter. My wife heard a noise in the garage and went to look... She got a light in her eyes ordered to go back inside.. There was a cop searching my garage apparantly they were looking for a perp in the area and the side door to the garage behind the gate was unlocked, so he decided it was okay to check it out. We were home with guests NO ONE knocked on the door to ask permission... there was another cop in the back yard...
The next day I get a knock at the door two detective came by asking me about my METH LAB in the garage WTF? No it'a a mineral assay lab
In the end I got an apology in writing and the captain disciplines the officer that was in the garage.. I could have pushed it... maybe should have as I can sure use the money
Thing is there are too many cases like this today... and you never know if the one you run into is trigger happy and just had a fight with his wife before work :P
Used to be if you had a heart attack while driving, they helped get you to the hospital, same with having a baby...
Today you are morre likely to get tazzed or shot for failing to get out of the car, like te old guy with a cane that was complying but got shot to death because the cop thought his cane handle was a gun
Ant that teen aged kid in CA... killed because he had a garden hose that had a pistol grip. neighbor called it in :He has a gun" Cops never even gave him a chance to drop it
11 million dollar law suit but their son is dead for no reason (I would be hunting that neighbor the next day :P )
So yeah MOST of them are the good guys no question..
But they need to weed out the bad apples themselves and make it happen in the PUBLIC forum
The idea I get from this side of the Atlantic ocean is that the police in the US is mostly living in fear, as it looks like they always act as if they were under attack. The way they protected themselves also gives me that idea, the idea that they mostly feel cornered and they to protect themselves from everyone else.
Quote from: ArMaP on December 03, 2016, 09:52:38 PM
The idea I get from this side of the Atlantic ocean is that the police in the US is mostly living in fear, as it looks like they always act as if they were under attack. The way they protected themselves also gives me that idea, the idea that they mostly feel cornered and they to protect themselves from everyone else.
They
are under attack, but it has nothing to do with fear. LEOs are being murdered in ambushes. People have openly called for their assassination.
QuoteThere was a cop searching my garage apparantly they were looking for a perp in the area and the side door to the garage behind the gate was unlocked, so he decided it was okay to check it out. We were home with guests NO ONE knocked on the door to ask permission... there was another cop in the back yard...
Exigent circumstances, hot pursuit. No warrant necessary.
It would be nice if the media reported the good LEOs do as well, but that isn't sensationalist.
In '85 I took a call from an elderly woman who wanted a revolver removed from her home. Her companion of many years had committed suicide with it and she didn't want it anymore. I spent an hour talking to her about it. She was very lonely and heartbroken.
We had coffee and then I had to take a pressing call. I left her with a list of resources and wished her well. I didn't want to leave, but I had to.
I like to think that I left her in a better place than where I found her. This happens thousands of times a day across the country, but you never hear about it because it doesn't sell papers.
Irene, I don't want perfection either. More than anything else, what I don't want, is to see any more photos of lines of police in gas masks and black riot gear, holding truncheons, standing in front of unarmed people who are trying to obtain justice, from corporations or governments, over and over and over again, and preventing them from getting it.
Can you at least agree that this is a bad thing? Can you not see how the above would itself be leading to the very ambushing and murder of police that you have mentioned in this thread?
(http://ipolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Police-in-riot-gear.jpeg)
That is what I don't want. I don't want scenarios like the one that occurred during the Egyptian revolution, and what is happening right now at Standing Rock, where current or former military are themselves stepping in to engage the police, because they recognise that the way the police are treating civilians in these situations is wrong.
I'm not the enemy here. I don't want to be. One of your replies above, was "no comment." Please try to recognise that a one sided, us-vs.-them mentality is not going to help anyone here, on either side. It's only going to lead to more governmental injustice, and more environmental destruction by corporations, more civilian deaths by police, and more police deaths by civilians. None of this is a good thing, for any of us.
You've mentioned in this thread, again, that there has been a recent spike in the civilian murder of police. I'm asking you for some basic willingness to ask the question why that might be happening; and I'm also asking for that, not exclusively for the sake of civilians, but for the sake of police themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCYobBjA1kk
The above is an excerpt from a recent episode of Doctor Who. The Doctor is mediating a conflict between two different species, in which they are potentially about to wipe each other out, and in the end, the only thing he asks either of them to do, is break the cycle.
That is what I want, and it is all I want. I want to figure out how to break the cycle, of which Standing Rock is only the latest iteration, and contrary to what you might think, I want to do it for the wellbeing of both sides. We're not going to stop the violence until we recognise that people on both sides have valid needs and valid perspectives, and that a refusal to recognise the value of either, is only going to keep the whole thing going.
(http://www.expansionexperts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/link-hands-business-franchise-teamwork-slider-300x225.jpg)
If police training was the wrong place for me to start looking for answers as to how to do that, then I apologise. Please, be part of the process, and offer some suggestions as to where we should be looking instead; including areas in which you think civilians should modify their behaviour. You've mentioned the media being a problem. How do you think we can change what they are doing, which will lead to de-escalation here?
Quote. . . what I don't want, is to see any more photos of lines of police in gas masks and black riot gear, holding truncheons, standing in front of unarmed people who are trying to obtain justice, from corporations or governments, over and over and over again, and preventing them from getting it.
The police don't really have a choice due to recent history in the US. Civilians have escalated the level of violence. The police are tasked with maintaining order and must be prepared for the worst-case scenario.
Would you deny them personal protection from assault? People are vicious to the police. They have the right to defend themselves from death and great bodily harm in the pursuit of their objective - maintaining control of the situation.
QuoteThat is what I don't want. I don't want scenarios like the one that occurred during the Egyptian revolution, and what is happening right now at Standing Rock, where current or former military are themselves stepping in to engage the police, because they recognise that the way the police are treating civilians in these situations is wrong.
I'm not following the Standing Rock thing, so I have no real right to comment on it.
QuoteI'm not the enemy here. I don't want to be. One of your replies above, was "no comment." Please try to recognise that a one sided, us-vs.-them mentality is not going to help anyone here, on either side. It's only going to lead to more governmental injustice, and more environmental destruction by corporations, more civilian deaths by police, and more police deaths by civilians. None of this is a good thing, for any of us.
I posted "no comment" because I didn't feel I could contribute anything useful in response. Clearly, I disagreed with the statement to which I was responding.
QuoteYou've mentioned in this thread, again, that there has been a recent spike in the civilian murder of police. I'm asking you for some basic willingness to ask the question why that might be happening; and I'm also asking for that, not exclusively for the sake of civilians, but for the sake of police themselves.
There are problems all the way around. We are talking about human beings who are emotional and violent.
Short of rewriting DNA I don't think we're going to solve the problem. We are genetically predisposed to savage behavior.
Watch a young child. They are unsocialized and, generally, pretty nasty little creatures. When adults don't practice their social skills everyone loses.
QuoteIf police training was the wrong place for me to start looking for answers as to how to do that, then I apologise. Please, be part of the process, and offer some suggestions as to where we should be looking instead; including areas in which you think civilians should modify their behaviour. You've mentioned the media being a problem. How do you think we can change what they are doing, which will lead to de-escalation here?
Civilians:1. Cooperate with the police.
2. Stop verbally abusing them and deliberately getting in their faces in an attempt to provoke a negative response.
3. Be civil.
4. Identify yourself if asked. If you do so before you are asked you are way ahead of the game.
5. If you screwed up, admit it. We usually know the answer before we ask the question.
Police:1. More emphasis on non-lethal forms of control and defense.
2. Ongoing training in interacting with the public in a less robotic way.
I've seen a film of the British police at work and I think US agencies could benefit from observing their techniques for interacting with difficult people. The biggest takeaway is that they disarm and deescalate using only carefully chosen language.
I used this technique myself as I'm fairly well-spoken due to being a bookworm.
3. Transparency in the disciplinary process is next. The public needs to know that their concerns are being addressed by the disciplinary system within the respective agency, and appropriate charges should be brought if the behavior meets statutory requirements.
4. Public officials need to stop showboating on high profile cases.
Application of the criminal laws must be applied objectively and without prejudice. This is not what happened in Baltimore. A racist DA used the incident in question to stoke racial tension.
This is a start. I'm tired, so I'm going to post this and let it rest for the night unless something glaring arises.
Quote from: Irene on December 03, 2016, 10:08:25 PM
They are under attack, but it has nothing to do with fear.
They do not overreact because they are afraid of being killed? That's what it looks like to me.
The proverbial horse is dead. Stop beating it. It's inhumane.
If the police are on the side that you are against, i.e. Protesters, then nothing the police do will satisfy you except to disappear,and allow the law to be broken because you think you have the right to protest and break the law. In this case I don't think training has anything to do with it.
Yes, there are good cops and bad cops, and the bad ones need to be replaced; a major issue is to remove and replace the ultra leftist media in this country and get rid of all their ultra left wing bull poop...
just look at all the bull poop they shoveled out about the Potus election and those retards were so far off the mark they were in the septic tank...
No one is above the law, including LEO, and anyone that thinks different is asking for a rough ride...
8)
Seeker
the moment our fones got hacked by stingray,love went out the door and will not return,i lost most of my pothead gang,thus losing my pot connections.so now im lonely in the woods.my friends all bugged to colo.
so now i plan to devestate that which devestated me.
until cops realize not to enforce pot laws,im not standing down.
yes one man can fight and win against legions if his faith is right and true.
i am that man.
what part of spying on folks fones is legal?
and all cop cars have them.
my next exploit is crashing them all.i plan to ruin them.no mercy.as they showed us potheads no mercy.
the issue is short sightedness.a % of the population worships law of man and not law of human.to enforce idiocracy is idiocracy.mans law is idiocracy.
rise above mans law and see the beauty of human law.
Quote from: robomont on December 04, 2016, 04:24:25 AM
so now i plan to devestate that which devestated me.
I don't recommend that, robo. If your friends have moved to Colorado, go with them if you can.
Quotewhat part of spying on folks fones is legal?
They don't care about what is legal. They don't need to. They can kill you and then a jury will reliably rule in their favour, and that's assuming the case makes it to trial. Most people want the police to be able to do whatever they like, and will defend them regardless of what they do, because of the level of fear they have of the alternative.
I'd encourage you to read about what happened to Christopher Dorner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt), if you haven't already. He was disgusted with the corruption within the LAPD, and decided to try and violently do something about it. He killed four people and wounded three others. The police set fire to the building they found him in, and burned him alive.
If it helps, a large part of the reason why I'm currently not in Nimbin, and still haven't decided whether or not to go back, is because police have charged every shop vendor of cannabis in the town, and have used association laws to imprison all of the street vendors. Said street vendors exclusively solid cannabis, and were helping to keep methamphetamines and harder drugs like heroin out of the town. Now that the old vendors are all in custody, the way has been opened for a new group to come in, who won't be from the town themselves, and who won't care about letting ice or the hard stuff in.
Said street vendors were not violent, and they weren't involved in any other crimes. The shop vendors were complete and genuine pacifists; I knew them for three years. As Rock will no doubt say in response to this, however, that doesn't matter. The law is the only thing that matters, even if people die as a consequence.
You can't fight them. If you try, the only thing that will happen is that you will end up dead or in jail. You simply have to leave. It may get to the point where there is nowhere else for cannabis users to run to, but unless more people start to give a damn, nothing is going to change; and even if more do, it may not matter. The police have military ordnance now.
Quote Irene: "................................The media is responsible for hyping isolated incidents and always depicting them in the worst light. I believe the media is largely responsible for much of the violence we see related to these cases. Their altruism is a lie.
As regards the apparent aggressiveness of the police, I challenge you to participate in a high speed chase, a foot chase, wrestle with one or more suspects, or be shot at and instantly turn off the rush of adrenaline that has helped you focus on survival. It ain't happenin'.
The public wants perfection from its street warriors, but isn't prepared to expect it of themselves in their interactions with the police, et al. This is the worst kind of hypocrisy.
Treat others as you want to be treated yourself. Be a respectable citizen in your interaction with public officials. You'll find they will professionally reciprocate.
Irene, IMO you are right on point!!!!!!! Every profession does get employees who have problems with executing their job responsibilities, and certainly a few/some in the police force do! But, if there is any reform needed, it is primarily with a broad segment of the populous of the country. Never has there been more ignorant and lawless goof-balls in this country!!! Lawlessness is absolutely no indicator of a need for police reform, but rather is a screaming notice to all that something is very wrong in our country with so many law breakers!!
A lot to take in on reading all the comments, and trying to determine some solutions.
Being outside the USA I don't think its easy to comprehend what its really like in America.
Govt Corruption, Police, Guns and Drugs, being a huge concern...
Then listening to the Likes of Alex Jones who has said so often how the Corrupt Governments are involved in drugs and yet the police are seen to always cracking down on drugs....
If the Govt really are involved in it the way he described ....I don't know if most police who are seen to be fighting so much against them are aware of that...and if they were, would they then take a different view on it...and what may they consider.
Because the way I see it is if the Govt are behind it... then that is one main part of the problem...and in the perfect World it would be them that needs overcoming..
but that would be a HUGE task to deal with..
I am not sure myself what to make of people taking drugs..
I see too many variations on it......
It may be no worse than alcohol and certain drugs may do some people good...or help them...and It maybe ok as an adults choice...as long as it does not cause problems to other people.
but other drugs can destroy lives. and that's where Policing is needed...
The very disturbing thing with the police in the USA, is they all carry guns and many cops can appear trigger happy & can kill you in an instant...and for the wrong reason...and ask questions later !
and when society seems to have become much more out of control, violent & dangerous .... no doubt it must be hard for Police..and that can make them agree to become more and more armed and act differently than they may have used to.
I do agree however that when you see large groups dressed in armored like suits.. and see them attacking protesters for the wrong reasons... it makes those who see it want to oppose the Police...
I was watching a TV program earlier about the Mafia and how things were when Al Capone was on the scene in the 1920/1930s...and how he was able to buy Governments, Judges and Police off when Gangsters were rife... That must have been horrendous... I read somewhere he had an 200 IQ...if so...I am sure if he had took other directions in his life that he could have been a top leader in a honest Profession..(Provided he was given the opportunity and right guidance)
No doubt there has always been times thru history where similar issues have gone on...I am not sure what was the worse times..was it back in Capone's days or today ?
If I am led to believe all the things that Alex Jones and Donald trump have claimed about the Corruption today... it seems too much to bare and comprehend...
but some how life continues on...
To change things needs a hell of a lot of action and bravery by all who oppose corruption...
There maybe needs a huge plan...and for people to try to understand it.. that makes sense to the majority...
There must be a better way that what we have had , that's for sure...
I just hope that some groups can attempt to come up with the solution and start the actions needed to try to improve things..
Something that seemed to offer hope was what was said about the past New York Mayor "Rudy Giuliani "....who took on the Mafia and Won ...at least for that time period ! ...Was he a Good Guy as seems to be made out ? ....... or was it just deception...
If he was legit... he had the strength of conviction to take on a lot of corruption...This maybe an eg of what is still possible..
but it does seem very hard to maintain it...and corruption often seems too easy to fall back in place...and there are just so many sides to life where its so hard to monitor and keep in check in terms of trying to remain Honest...
QuoteIn 1983, Giuliani was appointed U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, which was technically a demotion but was sought by Giuliani because of his desire to personally litigate cases. It was in this position that he first gained national prominence by prosecuting numerous high-profile cases, resulting in the convictions of Wall Street figures Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken. He also focused on prosecuting drug dealers, organized crime, and corruption in government.[21] He amassed a record of 4,152 convictions and 25 reversals. As a federal prosecutor, Giuliani was credited with bringing the "perp walk", parading of suspects in front of the previously alerted media, into common use as a prosecutorial tool.[32] After Giuliani "patented the perp walk", the tool was used by increasing numbers of prosecutors nationwide.[33]
QuoteMafia Commission trial[edit]
In the Mafia Commission Trial (February 25, 1985 – November 19, 1986), Giuliani indicted eleven organized crime figures, including the heads of New York's so-called "Five Families", under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) on charges including extortion, labor racketeering, and murder for hire. Time magazine called this "Case of Cases" possibly "the most significant assault on the infrastructure of organized crime since the high command of the Chicago Mafia was swept away in 1943", and quoted Giuliani's stated intention: "Our approach is to wipe out the five families."[38] Eight defendants were found guilty on all counts and subsequently sentenced on January 13, 1987 to hundreds of years of prison time.[39][40]
According to an FBI memo revealed about 20 years later, leaders of the five New York mob families voted in 1987 on whether to issue a contract for the death of U.S. attorney Rudolph Giuliani. Heads of the Lucchese, Bonanno, and Genovese families rejected the idea, though Gambino leader John Gotti encouraged assassination.[41]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani
and just hope that the Evil side are unable to still maintain control..
God Bless the USA and all...
-------------------
Irene, I had not realised that you had worked in Law Enforcement and I am taken back that it was for 30 years...
It is no doubt hard to imagine the effects and stress that it has had on you , and how it will have changed you. It amazes me how people can handle certain situations..and endure them.
One wonders what they may have been like if they took other routes...
I am sure we all end up having things that we never envisioned or that became hard to face and bear or that have been obstructions to what our plans may have hoped to had been...
We wonder what its all about and some may ask what if at all possible could have been a solution to have trying to have obtained a route that we desire and a plan to have obtained it..
but we all take varying routes...and hope it will work out..
QuoteAfter 30 years working in various areas of law enforcement with various agencies
Quote from: robomont on December 04, 2016, 04:24:25 AM
the moment our fones got hacked by stingray,love went out the door and will not return,i lost most of my pothead gang,thus losing my pot connections.so now im lonely in the woods.my friends all bugged to colo.
so now i plan to devestate that which devestated me.
until cops realize not to enforce pot laws,im not standing down.
yes one man can fight and win against legions if his faith is right and true.
i am that man.
what part of spying on folks fones is legal?
and all cop cars have them.
my next exploit is crashing them all.i plan to ruin them.no mercy.as they showed us potheads no mercy.
the issue is short sightedness.a % of the population worships law of man and not law of human.to enforce idiocracy is idiocracy.mans law is idiocracy.
rise above mans law and see the beauty of human law.
robo, that is about the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard; you are on a vendetta against the peace keepers because they did their job and your friends moved to a state where they can be legal instead of breaking the law?
You do realize your above statements can be construed as terroristic threats, right?
In case you haven't noticed, the laws of the land do apply to you, and no one died and left you in charge; instead of acting like a home made martyr why not move to colorado and grow and sell your own
legally???
nobody has authority over me, nobody. i dare you to prove me wrong. i can make any true statement of fact.
i swore an oath to uphold the constitution, i cant back down when its hot or cold or an army of chimps tries to twist my arm.
maybe some folks are more fickle when the heats on. im not that guy.
sometimes truth hurts.
this is my land. this is my families land, my roots go back to even before this land was a country and even to when new york was new amsterdam.
breaking the law for the excuse of terrorism is like screaming what about the children. a very weak argument at most.
when ones own governor betrays his people, he is a traitor.
when ones own president betrays his people, hes a traitor.
i welcome true authority, but cureently not a single politician can hold authority over me legally.
not a single cop in my state, county or city can hold authority over me, i proved in court, their corruption. so as of this moment in time. im the freest man in america. thats the bottom line.
there is one exception. this board and z, i submit my authority to it.
as far as terroristic threat, prove police dont violate my civil liberties and yours. i have every legal right to defend my self against corruption and so do yall. the difference being. i state what i believe to be obvious truth. and how to defend against said corruption.
as far as moving to colo, yall may not realize it but colos new homeless are majority texan. yep.
and im trying to show yall tptb plan. they plan to destroy colo. they are setting the potheads up.
i pointed this out last year and my predictions on the timeline may be off but the track is straight. the setting off of yellowstone is obvious. i even called for the big one in cali last week but it ended up being 4 small ones instead but my dates were right.
they plan to strip us of our wealth and kill most. your own gov has this planned. but yet folks want to support the murderers.
ive warned folks and intend to live. what yall do is up to yall.
i will stand my ground.
I'm still tired this morning. Not enough coffee. The good news is that the cat hasn't barfed yet. Keep your fingers crossed. The bad news is that it is bloody snowing. >:(
So, brief post to say that I have always felt marijuana should be legalized for home use only. I don't agree with people driving or working under the influence of it.
I know this is a shocker, but this is how I feel after years of watching the War On Drugs and knowing every day that it has been an abject and extremely expensive failure.
I don't condone the harder drugs. Addiction kills people and families. I do understand why people do it though. Life can be quite miserable for people just trying to survive and facing many hardships. Drugs are an escape from that reality.
They clearly open up altered states of consciousness, which even I find alluring. I, too, am extremely curious to see what lies beyond the veil.
And the inhumane treatment of that horse goes on! Lolol ;)
its male birth control. bottom line. the most dangerous thing to any population. that wishes to keep poverty and slavery in place.
i produced my 2.3 kids to sustain said numbers. lol. the .3 is a third kid.
ive done my part to replace the lost.when you think of the ramifications of male birth control.the big picture is obvious.
why shouldnt males have the same rights as females.
as far as getting high,no more or less dangerous than caffiene.its just the population has adapted to caffiene and hasnt had a hundred years of propaganda against it, except for mormons.
Quote from: the seeker on December 04, 2016, 01:37:29 PM
robo, that is about the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard; you are on a vendetta against the peace keepers
Seeker, as far as I am concerned, there are no heroes here. Not on either side. There are merely people attempting to defend or propagate what they
think is the right thing; but if there's one thing I've learned recently, it's that exclusively viewing one group as right and the other as wrong, only keeps conflict going.
If I view police as exclusively in the right and civilians as exclusively in the wrong, then that invalidates and ignores the real acts of injustice which police genuinely are at times committing against civilians; yet if I assume that civilians are exclusively justified and that the police are single-mindedly monsters, then that again disregards the fact that police are also, as Irene said, being murdered by civilians.
We have to avoid taking sides. Both groups are in pain, and that is because things have happened to cause said pain. As far as I am concerned, removing the factors which lead to said pain and conflict needs to be the main priority here, rather than assigning blame. From what I am seeing, the people at Standing Rock do have valid arguments, and I've also seen photos of the injuries that they have received from police; but I also know that what Irene has said is true, that police are being unjustly murdered by civilians as well.
Quote from: Irene on December 04, 2016, 05:40:16 PM
I don't condone the harder drugs.
Neither do I. I've seen the harder drugs kill people, and I've seen cannabis heal. I also completely agree with you that no one should drive or operate heavy machinery under the influence.
thankyou petrus for a balanced opinion,i admit ive been fighting the uphill legalization battle a long time.me my wife and 2year old daughter at time ,went to pot legalization rally in austin when bush was gov of texas.20 years ago ?
and still not legal in texas,thats the biggest crime of all.and cops are put in the predicament of blind obediance to an unjust law.
but lets not forget,fbi would not even save statistics on cop killings,which shows the utter corruption at the justice dept.
like i said,there is no law in the usa,just folks that think there is.
and last,i bet cops are killing folks faster than folks are killing cops.so its unjust to single out cops getting killed.should not these cops be in an uproar over unjust killings of citizens.should it be number one on trumps agenda?
its not, because the gov wants civil war,its obvious really.they have set the stage for it.look around.
Quote from: Irene on December 03, 2016, 10:08:25 PM
It would be nice if the media reported the good LEOs do as well, but that isn't sensationalist.
I like to think that I left her in a better place than where I found her. This happens thousands of times a day across the country, but you never hear about it because it doesn't sell papers.
Quite true...
media is to blame directly for most of our problems I recall an olymics several years ago with media saying repeatedly "I hope no one brings a bomb" Over and over they said that..
so.. someone says "HEY!!! I think I will take a bomb to the olympics!" so went out and made a pipe bomb
Good news doesn't sell you are right
But ArMap also has a point..
The FEAR is there... maybe justified but the pendulum has swung to far the other way... like that New Mexico guy they killed for 'illegal camping.. FOUR cops and a dog, cops with Kevlar and guns... Camper had a small pocket knife...
Cops yelling to come down... He was complying, Cop 1 shoots rubber bullets, other 2 cops felt the need to blast him with real bullets, sick dog on him
Cop yelling at man to drop the knife Ummm the guy is DEAD lying on the ground knife (2-3" blade) lying beside his hand
Looks like FEAR to me...
I could put together a list of cases where the cops involved over reacted because they were afraid... like an elderly lady in a traffic stop flustered and was fumbling in her purse for her ID (that was requested) She wasn't fast enough so the cop pulled her out of the car seat belt still on and when she screamed he felt he had to use the tazer
(http://666surveillancesystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/police-state-swat-when-did-this-become-this.jpg)
Okay so in todays world there are more bad guys and with Obama stirring the racism pot by inviting a terrorist group like BLM into the Whitehouse it sure is making a mess
But if the Cops want "We the people" to believe that 90% of cops are good guys... then "We the People" expect that cops need to know that 90% of "We the people" are good honest law abiding citizens
As to them being in my garage and that home invasion in Henderson? Well it seems that they WERE in violation of both procedure and the law... This is Nevada we still have rights here.
usually im about 2 years ahead of the times.this can be proven by a heated discussion a couple years back on here that caused me to be absent for a term.now that belief is showing itself.im not evil,i dont want folks dead,i just clearly see conditions that leed later to issues.unless the feds step up and change the narrowmindedness,civil war WILL,break out.not may,will.too many bad things being placed on the board.police state laws,authoritarian rules,low iq cops,no jobs of real value,homelessness,a general socialism of communities,old people manipulated into neighborhood watch groups.
the squeeze is really bad for the 40 year olds to 60 year olds.really bad.REALLY BAD ,I MEAN HORRIFIC BAD.a year or 2 of poor employment is one thing,16 years of it is a FOOKIN NIGHTMARE.GET MY DRIFT?
Quote from: Irene on December 04, 2016, 05:40:16 PM
So, brief post to say that I have always felt marijuana should be legalized for home use only. I don't agree with people driving or working under the influence of it.
I agree with that... first of all from a taxpayers point of view... Colorado has shown the huge amount of taxes they collect so much so they had a surplus and by Colorado law they need to return the overage to the people. Also the BILLIONS spent on jails, legal system and law enforcement for a small ounce of something that is no worse than alchohol
Add to that the blow to organized drug lords...
On the flip side I recall my days in High School where the weed smokers were in Lalaland, giggling insanely and their reaction time slowed to a crawl. At work here in Vegas at the Convention center a weed smoking teamster on a fork lift dropped a crate on two people killing them So yeah should still remain the same Use it at home. but not while driving or at work
your rights to freedom end when they interfere with another's rights and freedom
thats the first real accident ive ever heard of z,seriously,ive never ran across one even though its chances are high.but i trust your accuracy.
on a side note,i now know where you work.lol.
ill plan my ufo expose to be at the convention center when im famous.
Quote from: robomont on December 04, 2016, 08:58:58 PM
should it be number one on trumps agenda?
its not, because the gov wants civil war,its obvious really.they have set the stage for it.look around.
And that's why I think you should not look at the police as whole but remember that when you are facing a police officer you are facing another human being with his/her own problems, someone that probably just wants to get back home to his/her family in one piece.
Someone (the government?) clearly wants people to take different sides and act against each other, so the best option would be to do the opposite.
Zorgon,
Law enforcement has never been "Adam-12", "Starsky & Hutch", or "Baretta". What has changed is that the population has increased and become more violent and defiant. Thank the hippies for that.
Dissemination of news, videos, audio is now instantaneous, so people are on top of the news as it is made. Aberrant behavior is much more exposed to the light of day.
Lastly, the Left has radicalized their hypocrisy. Passive aggressive protest is their trademark. They enjoy enraging their opponents, with the ultimate result being violence, then claiming they are peaceful.
They are a disgrace. Clinton lost because people saw through the bulls**t.
imho,our defiance wasnt the hippies,it was tuning out the msm bs.once i did that,reality slid in along with my recent court appearances over the last 20 years,once the state occuses you of child rape,abuse and starvation,via cps,it tends to make one never trust gov again.ever.the state is the enemy.ill take that experience for life.then letting a serial killer neighbor across the street from me go?
i cant say it on this forum but to say a fire of intense light boils my soul.like the furnace of hell itself.
Quote from: Irene on December 04, 2016, 10:25:00 PM
What has changed is that the population has increased and become more violent and defiant.
Irene,
You and I seem to have a fundamentally different view of reality. While I very much recognise the value of harmony, virtually my entire life experience, starting from the very earliest point of childhood, has consistently taught me that authority is almost exclusively corrupt, and never to be trusted; and that the vast majority of the time, the real reason for the existence of said authority is predatory.
This is also why Zorgon views his scenario as a vicarious monarch to be a positive thing, presumably; because he has observed it as a source of benefit both to himself and others. If I had had similar experience to him, then no doubt I would have the same opinion; but I have not.
For me, the world consists almost exclusively of bullies; and this is true to the point where the only time when I feel genuinely physically safe, is when I am also physically alone. In my experience, all the police have ever really appeared to be, is simply a more severe and better armed group of bullies than the civilian kind; and worse, they deprive me of the ability to defend myself from said civilians. I have experienced home invasion, an attempt to kill me, and having said home set fire to, in multiple seperate incidents, and the police were nowhere in sight until well after said crisis had already passed.
Police have never given me any reason to have faith in them. I can accept the fact that your own reasoning for being sympathetic to the police, is due to the fact that your life experience is the opposite; but I hope you are willing to recognise that in both cases, there is a valid basis for our difference of opinion. I might well be more sympathetic towards police myself, if my experience with them had been more positive. The reason why I can not join with the Seeker in thanking police for their service, however, is because I personally have nothing to thank them for. They have not served me.
So if as robo says, my opinion seems to be balanced, it is primarily because I do not presume that integrity exists anywhere. I don't think it exists among civilians, and I don't think it exists among police. I am not going to cheer civilians on for killing police, but neither am I going to applaud the police for being accessories to corporate economic crime or degradation of the environment. The issue here is not the fact that the police are bastards, but that
everyone is, police or civilians alike.
This is also why I am nowhere close to advocating the rule of law purely for its' own sake, because the one thing that I have repeatedly seen recently, is use of the law as a weapon by a vastly wealthy minority, and as a means of ensuring that a much larger majority are kept permanently incapable of improving their living conditions. Considering this, I do not view civilian defiance as a negative thing; in fact, maintaining it may well be imperative to our continued survival.
The truth is, that the rule of law does me no good. I have never been in a condition of living or interacting physically with other human beings, where said human beings have not attempted to derive benefit from me, in a manner that was also detrimental to me; and this has occurred in an environment where the rule of law was supposedly still operating in the background. We are currently moving towards extinction; and again, to a large extent this has occurred within a context where we have had the rule of law.
The Judge Dredd approach does not work. If it did work, I would welcome it; but the problem with trying to defend us from the barbarians at the gates, is the fact that we are all barbarians, which means that said gates have never served to keep the barbarians out in the first place.
The only thing I've ever found that does work, is isolation. Keeping myself out of sight of everyone else as much as possible; and ideally, seperating myself from the rest of the population with closed and preferably locked doors. You might ask, if that is the case, why I use the Internet; and the answer is that unfortunately I require some form of interaction with the collective in order to remain sane, which the Internet provides. At this point however, I do not view
physical interaction with other human beings as virtually anything other than a threat to my own wellbeing. I am not an atheist, but the Goddess I pray to, wears the face of Sarah Connor.
Quote from: robomont on December 04, 2016, 10:06:40 PM
on a side note,i now know where you work.lol.
LOL retired from that 5 years ago when my leg went bad :P Wearing a negative compression device right now, part of a clinical study Free medical and paid $75.00 a week
They used to be huge wear them like a back pack Miniaturisation now
(http://www.smith-nephew.com/global/images/products/wound/npwt/npwt-pico.gif)
i need that vacuum pump for my nasa space poop challenge.whats its power usage,120vac?does it have a 12vdc possibility?nevermind ,i see it there,that would work perfectly.
A question for those who don't like the police, don't think they're necessary, and don't want them around -
What do you think your neighborhood would be like without the police?
Legalization of marijuana for medical and home use would be a good thing in many ways as Z pointed out, and yes Armap, there aren't any heroes at this point ; my point of view is to work together, not against each other, to make the system workable. There is no perfect solution, but there are too many striving for anarchy and chaos... if the system isn't working, figure out a solution...
And yes our dear soon to be a bad memory Potus has managed to push racial tensions and division to an all time high... the bald bare truth is those people of color are the racists and bigots behind most of the bull poop, and I have a tendency to tell them about it; their ancestors sold them because their ancestors were undesirable, and what are they crying about? My ancestors got screwed out of the whole damn country, massacred repeatedly and driven to some of the crappiest lands in the nation for reservations, so what is their problem?
Seeker
Quote from: Irene on December 05, 2016, 12:10:45 AM
What do you think your neighborhood would be like without the police?
For me, the question is hypothetical. I've never practically seen the answer. I've known a family who were living in South Africa for a while, and I'm aware that the traditional answer is that society would degenerate into similar conditions.
I don't necessarily think that it would, for the same reason that I no longer make the mental generalisation that all Muslims are terrorists. Most humans have a fairly strong instinct for self-preservation, and if you are sane, you also realise that being involved in violence in any sense reduces the odds of said survival occurring.
Although we are currently moving towards extinction as I have previously noted, that is not because of the actions of the majority, but rather because we have an extremely pathological minority, (government) who said majority have been deceived into thinking that they need to obey without question or critical thought. Said majority are generally not violent, if left to their own devices. My view of human nature is not positive, but said negative opinion has more to do with humanity's moral cowardice and lack of both intelligence and initiative, than it is because of our supposed capacity for violence.
In pretty much every human group I've seen where there has been violence, the percentage of said group who were truly responsible for said violence, generally hasn't exceeded 20%. The other 80-90% go along with said violence primarily in order to ensure that they do not become targets themselves, rather than because they are truly predisposed towards it. Bullies and tyrants gain authority because of the cowardice of the majority, not because said majority want to be violent themselves.
If the police didn't exist, I'd expect to see a return to something like feudalism, rather than outright anarchy. The psychopathic minority who genuinely
are willing to engage in violence would end up as warlords, with everyone else as their subjects. The only real difference between that scenario and the current one, is that in our current scenario, people in our society who would be warlords in Afghanistan or Africa, either join the police, are part of the government, or become corporate CEOs.
The police don't fundamentally prevent the strong from preying upon the weak, in the manner that they like to delude themselves that they do. All they really do is cause said predation to end up taking different, and slightly less direct forms. The same sorts of people riding around on camels with AK-47s in the Middle East, sell each other derivatives on Wall Street. The form the violence takes is different, but the amount of death and suffering that it causes is ultimately pretty much the same. If anything, I'm inclined to view white collar crime as actually worse than outright physical violence, because at least if someone walks up to you with a knife, you can see it coming and have some chance to defend yourself.
You might try and appeal to me with the argument that if it wasn't for the cops I could have someone burst into my house and attempt to kill me at any time, but the reason why that argument isn't going to work with me, is because I've already had that happen, even with said police's existence. I also know about multiple cases of people who've rung 911 during a home invasion, only to have the cops show up and engage in just as much violence towards the callers as the original people who'd broken in.
So again; I don't view the police as saviours, and I don't see any real reason to.
Quote from: the seeker on December 05, 2016, 12:16:38 AM
There is no perfect solution, but there are too many striving for anarchy and chaos
I don't want chaos. I want a scenario where whatever order we have, isn't based on the rule of child murdering, psychopathic paedophiles. There's rather a large difference.
QuoteAnd yes our dear soon to be a bad memory Potus has managed to push racial tensions and division to an all time high...
Barry didn't do that. Soros and his Leftist army of white useful idiots from the universities did. I'm not one of Barry's fans necessarily, but I don't believe in blaming people for things they didn't do. Barry's done more than enough things that we can dislike him for if you want to.
In my own mind, Obama's main crimes are impotence on the one hand, and duplicity on the other. The impotence is in terms of him not stepping in and preventing certain things (like said race riots) when he probably could have, and just standing in front of a podium and making pretty, ineffectual speeches about it. The duplicity is defined as again making said pretty speeches, and then walking back into the White House and ordering drone killings of various people. Not to mention not closing Gitmo like he said he was going to, and perpetuating various foreign wars.
My main problem with Obama is the fact that he has always tried to present himself as someone who actually gives a damn about people, when in reality he's just another rich, warmongering psychopath like anyone else who has ever been in the White House, who only does anything if it benefits him or his reptilian (figuratively speaking) friends.
in robos dream world,my neighbor tommy blairs head would be anchored to a pike in my front yard,as an example of what happens when you shine microwave on me ,my wife and daughter for 15 years.
beside that pike would be one of my other neighbor mike ottmer for aiding him.
then another 3 for 3 judges that crossed me.
another for a constable and 10 deputies.
my yard would be full of pot plants of different species.
and i would own all the land of these people who used corrupt law to steal from me.
and the rest of my neighbors would respect me for cleaning this county of its filth.we would have harvest festivals and picnics and cherish each other.
in robos dream world.i can always wish.
Quote from: robomont on December 05, 2016, 12:04:24 AM
i need that vacuum pump for my nasa space poop challenge.whats its power usage,120vac?does it have a 12vdc possibility?nevermind ,i see it there,that would work perfectly.
2 aa cells lasts 7 days They run about $1000.00 one time use That is why medical bills are so high :P
These are on the market The clinical study is to prove to Medicare that they are cheaper than ongoing treatment
I guess we can move these posts :P
1000 for a vac pump,somebodies makin some dough.yep move it king zorgon.just had to speak up when i saw it.its perfect size and shape.plus it needs to last 6 days.the button is in perfect spot too and could be activated under suit with gloves on.ive already submitted my idea and stated i needed something like that.only you already had it.lol.theres 13000 entrees so its basically a joke at this point.nasa cant properly review that many ideas by dec20.
Pretty sure the device itself is reusable just the suction pad over the wound would be discarded. If the doctor intends to toss it I will get her to let me keep it
This is an example of deadly force used when a baton would have been my personal weapon of choice. The officer doesn't have to outrun a bullet. The kid has two knives. He could easily have been disarmed with the right placement of the stick.
Police officer in Nevada shoots knife-wielding high school student (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/08/video-officers-dramatic-confrontation-with-knife-wielding-hs-student-released.html)
I'm not going let him stab or seriously injure someone or myself. He's lucky he only got shot once.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on December 09, 2016, 01:43:41 AM
I'm not going let him stab or seriously injure someone or myself. He's lucky he only got shot once.
I've used the stick successfully many times. I don't think, in this case, the sidearm is necessary.
But, it's a matter of opinion. I understand why it's your choice.
Irene, up until about 6 months ago someone threatening me with a knife wasn't that big a deal, been there, done that, and he got a lot more stitches than I did; now, since I am the one armed bandit I am afraid I would choose to pop a cap before I would allow injury to myself or others...
without seeing the video and knowing the entire scenario as it went down it is difficult to make a call...
Seeker
When you said that you worked for Law Enforcement Irene...was that as a Police Officer or similar (Without rereading what you told us I cannot recall exactly what your positions were) where you had Self defence or Martial Arts training ? ....From what you say , I would assume so as you seem confident that you have used a stick successfully on several occasions...
We see it on the Movies...where the Cops often take out opponents using hand to hand combat or Stick Like weapons...
But in real life... unless one is very well trained / skilled and depending on what one may judge about an opponent that they face... that you would often have to make quite a quick decision as to what action to take..
I imagine that it depends upon various factors as to whether one would attempt to use that type of approach or to use a Firearm...
It maybe often if someone seems smaller or weaker than themselves, they may risk a non firearm approach...
but if that smaller weaker looking opponent is armed... then it may not be that easy to make a judgement..
If one was facing some bigger stronger looking opponent.. it would seem quite a risk to chance other means if it could become a life and death situation. and more so if they were armed with a Knife.
but it is a risk what ever facing anyone with a knife..
I think that you have been brave if you have decided to use a stick in such situations if the person had a knife...
but maybe also one develops a 2nd sense to make a judgement if they are likely to actually use a knife or not ! if one has seen such situations several times....or trained to make such judgement's..
QuoteI've used the stick successfully many times. I don't think, in this case, the sidearm is necessary.
But, it's a matter of opinion. I understand why it's your choice.
Quote from: Irene on December 09, 2016, 01:33:15 AM
This is an example of deadly force used when a baton would have been my personal weapon of choice. The officer doesn't have to outrun a bullet. The kid has two knives. He could easily have been disarmed with the right placement of the stick.
Police officer in Nevada shoots knife-wielding high school student (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/08/video-officers-dramatic-confrontation-with-knife-wielding-hs-student-released.html)
I am sure this could be quite an indepth topic..
It does seem that thru out Life most of us (although I suspect all) face people we perceive as Bullies.
Initially for me I thought that it only was to apply when I was young and growing up where you always had older , bigger children who could dominate the younger smaller ones.
For me I think it was more the Physical side that was an issue..
In early adult stage... I had thought that things then level out...
but as life goes on it then becomes more mental..and you find you can still be dealing with older / larger people but also the younger ones who have come up from below...
Depending how we have been brought up and what we may have been told by our parents..may determine more how we looked at things..and then later we may start realize that often we seem bracketed...and maybe are within certain boundaries as to what we can deal with..
Some seem to deal with people with relative ease...others can not.. much maybe to do with nature nurture / ones psychology / intellect, personality but also family size with older younger brothers / sisters..who I think if they are from larger families will be more used to dealing with people and certain situations as they get older...but also I suppose some will have also been heavily worn down by that in some cases.. People who maybe of one sibling may deal with life better in other areas...
I think its all just a lottery !
and what may seem as bullying to one is the norm to another...and just seen as banter and horseplay...
and that's just in day to day normal life...
when it later comes to the Work place... then things can get unpleasant when you have to work day in day out with people for several hours a day for several years...
Seems like you have had some quite disturbing experiences Petrus if you have faced such threats or situations...
Looking back and seeing how you survived them and being able to reflect on them must make you look at your present situation in another light !
I agree that at times...depending upon our life experiences... that it can be easy to think that living life alone is the only way to actually live a safer life...
It all so often seems that someone or something can all so easily occur to disturb our plans and thoughts they we may not wish for..
Petrus
QuoteFor me, the world consists almost exclusively of bullies; and this is true to the point where the only time when I feel genuinely physically safe, is when I am also physically alone. In my experience, all the police have ever really appeared to be, is simply a more severe and better armed group of bullies than the civilian kind; and worse, they deprive me of the ability to defend myself from said civilians. I have experienced home invasion, an attempt to kill me, and having said home set fire to, in multiple seperate incidents, and the police were nowhere in sight until well after said crisis had already passed.
My reply is that I have a serious problem with shooting children.
Good night.
I suspect most people would feel the same.
I was just referring the comments that you had about your experiences at using a stick to maybe sort out similar situations.
Each situation can be different, but upon On looking at the video of that particular incident... when there are lots of other children around in a School like environment...
I think if someone who did confront the person... that they would have to try to separate them from others...if that were possible..
and then try to talk to them and calm them down...as long as they were not trying them to attack them outright...
if they could not separate them...from the other surrounding people...and seem to be able calm them down, then some may believe that their only option would be to have to take more serious instant action..
In that case the Police shot him and wounded him and at least did not kill him...but was that seen as being the right thing to do at the time or within the given situation ?
but whether or not they could have used a stick like weapon, I think would depend upon that Policeman's abilities and actions as he viewed them ...and if maybe he thought that he was under direct attack..or if others were under threat... then he may have to use firearms..
Quote from: Irene on December 09, 2016, 04:47:06 AM
My reply is that I have a serious problem with shooting children.
Good night.
Quote from: Irene on December 09, 2016, 04:47:06 AM
My reply is that I have a serious problem with shooting children.
Good night.
As a general rule of thumb I agree about children and most people; It depends on the circumstances and each situation; without knowing all the facts it is difficult to express more than a supposition or opinion...
At this point I can neither condemn or condone the actions of that officer
I just hope he made the right decision
Seeker
A 14 year old can kill ya just as easy as 21 year old....cop ended it...pure and simple.....
i know weve been ruff on you cop guys and gals,but im glad these issues are being brought up and confronted.its nice to see honest and open debate.its what makes pegasus rise above the other forums.
to irene,as you are newish,please dont take this thread to heart,we can get intense,but at the end of the day,we all learn and benefit from the differing points of view.i for one want to say thankyou to you and sarge.
To the point!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114)
Quote from: Irene on December 09, 2016, 04:47:06 AM
My reply is that I have a serious problem with shooting children.
I suppose the definition of 'child' becomes an issue
In today's world we send 18 year olds to fight in a war, but they cannot have a drink in a bar or drive a car (in many states now) until they are 21..
back in Medieval times a Knight was 12 years old
But look at the rest of the world today....
HAMAS kids in training
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RpACm2DzOuE/ToFGjqzT8rI/AAAAAAAAAas/fK51HU4QjCg/s1600/kids-with-guns.jpg)
Palestinian Childrens Army
(https://sassywire.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/palestinian_child_army.png)
(https://paulboylan.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/palestinian-kids-with-guns.jpg)
Hezbolah Lebenon
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41608000/jpg/_41608200_afp_lebnanese416.jpg)
North Korean kids training
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111150906/4340106-1500399637-filep.jpg)
Taliban Child Training Camps
(http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer3/2013/07/21/4746089/3_wa.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/22/article-2313023-196E5722000005DC-764_634x435.jpg)
Jewish Settlers in Gaza teaching their kids
(http://www.dangerouscreation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/jewish-settler-kids-guns.jpg)
SERIOUSLY?
(https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2014-05/afplivefive782729.jpg)
The Congo
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eyR6ij5t_oM/hqdefault.jpg)
Somalia
(http://img1.izismile.com/img/img3/20100729/640/kids_with_guns_640_11.jpg)
Pakistan
(http://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2015_28/1111631/150708-pakistani-children-plastic-guns-jpo-441a_f7f84eb81a0a566eb7c2f02be26b6523.nbcnews-fp-1200-800.jpg)
Marching children in Lahore, Pakistan
(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/tali-548117.jpg)
Chicago
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/34/ec/8d/34ec8d8b62dc9b5719b2446ef90e076d.jpg)
Just playing...
(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/e15/1390428_398595093605795_595658214_n.jpg)
Just google "kid's with Guns"
But don't worry obama assures us that the older 'refugees' are harmless
::)
Looking at all those countries that show such young Children carrying arms...makes us so lucky that generally the western World does not have such issues.
One other point in ref to the video and the School kid with the Knife who was shot by the Police in the USA...
I am not sure if the USA Police could have also had other options such as what we have in the UK...where they have used Tasers or maybe could have used Rubber Bullets or stun guns.. that I would think could have resolved the situation as opposed to firearms wounding....
There have however been some concerns recently , where I believe tasers have caused severe harm to people (sometimes heart attacks or some similar effects) who have been targeted by them..
Quote from: Irene on December 04, 2016, 10:25:00 PM
What has changed is that the population has increased and become more violent and defiant.
I don't just blame the hippies, Irene. I think a big part of the reason for the increase in public defiance, is probably more due to the fact that, according to pretty much every poll I've seen, the American public no longer believe that the government fundamentally acts in their best interests. While some of my comments here have not been sympathetic towards the police, I want you to know that I
do feel genuinely empathy towards them where that is concerned, because they are the proverbial meat in the sandwich.
I think one of the things which cops really need to do, in order to try and regain public trust, however, is refuse to act as corporate mercenaries in situations like the mess at Standing Rock. Arguments between corporations and the public should primarily be civil issues, not criminal ones; and when police show up at protests armed with batons and tear gas, the only thing they end up doing is making themselves look like Nazis. It doesn't do any police organisation any good whatsoever, to have the public perceive them in that way.
(http://ipolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Police-in-riot-gear.jpeg)
Imagery like this, is fundamentally inconsistent with the idea of a democratic society. It conveys an impression of totalitarian fascism; the very type of regime that a lot of people's grandparents died fighting to prevent. If the public are given reason to view the police in that way, then they are going to feel justified in shooting them.
Police need to understand that
any public, collective show of force costs them a very high price in civilian good will, and therefore to make sure that they only engage in such displays when it is genuinely, crucially necessary to public wellbeing, such as in the case of natural disasters. Attempting to shield rapacious corporations from public outrage, when said corporations are intent on destroying what is left of this planet's ability to support life, purely in the name of money and their own psychopathy, is
not a justifiable cause.
Robo is correct that nursing can be dangerous. I can personally attest to that. We go into some ugly neighborhoods to provide care. We aren't seen in the same context as police officers though. We, to an extent, have power over people's lives, and there are nurses who abuse that power. We do not, however, overtly carry deadly weapons. Unless you count the instances of showing a urinary catheter to a post-op man and explaining what will happen if he doesn't pee pretty soon. But I digress. Nurses are seen more in a Florence Nightingale context, while police are seen in a more militaristic context. At least that's been my experience. Both professions are service professions. Both professions can chew you up and spit you out. Both professions are a calling that gets into the blood, and cannot be ignored.
Shasta