Buzz Aldrin says we didn't go to the moon

[ArMaP]

There were some explantions suggested !

More so  in ref to the initial Acent stage L.M photo as to what some parts of it maybe and why certain parts of that may seem distorted...or appear buckled..

That it may have been due to the explosives used on Take of from the Moon...and we are seeing the underbelly of it..

I think that's the more likely explanation, specially when watching the video of the lift-off from the Moon.

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

I don't think they used explosive to lift off. I remember them talking about an engine with a valve that they just opened up and it fired the engine. That's a really rough explanation but it was something like that. I'm sure someone will correct me on this matter.

[astr0144]

You seem to make a lot of possible valid points ArMaP.

thats been quite a lot to research !

May need to ponder on some of them, as somethings I am still unsure about or just dont know enough to question it further

Yes it does appear that Monitor is something to do with the Lunar Rover vehicle..

I have now noted that the webpage for that image referred to LRV...

[astr0144]

I think you are right Sgt...

Although I am not sure if they may have also used some sort of explosive bolts as well maybe to break the two stages of the LM apart,  around the same time as the Rocket engine lifted the LEM asent stage  to take off from the left behind Descent stage..

I think that they used some sort of explosive bolts when the Initial Apollo Saturn V took off from Earth to break away from the support framing and later break apart the other rockets stages... I was think maybe they used explosives to split or break apart the two L.M stages as it lifted of from the moon..

The Lunar Module detached itself from its legs and its descent engine via explosive bolts and guillotines to cut the cables, and started up its ascent engine

https://www.quora.com/How-did-Apollo-11-get-back-to-Earth-once-they-got-there

Yes it would have had to have had something to lift it off from the Moon to propell it back to the Command Module...

Explosives alone would not lift it enough or direct it back to the CM...in the way that we would expect.. without some sort of engine or thrust propulsion..


I tried to find some info on this but so far I have only found some basic information that seems to suggest what you say.

What I have found comes in the following..

On other diagrams that I had posted of the Lunar Module.. They make it obvious that there was an engine for the LM ascent stage... but one image referred to a engine cover..
but it does not show the actual Ascent stage engine...Its however show an engine for the Descent stage..at the lower part..




Luckily I found this image that does show the Ascent Stage engine on the Lunar Module as described as Engine 2 in the diagram.

Ascent stage
The Ascent stage contained the crew cabin with instrument panels and flight controls. It contained its own Ascent Propulsion System (APS) engine and two hypergolic propellant tanks for return to lunar orbit and rendezvous with the Apollo Command/Service Module. It also contained a Reaction Control System (RCS) for attitude and translation control, which consisted of sixteen hypergolic thrusters similar to those used on the Service Module, mounted in four quads, with their own propellant supply

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascent_Propulsion_System


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module

I don't think they used explosive to lift off. I remember them talking about an engine with a valve that they just opened up and it fired the engine. That's a really rough explanation but it was something like that. I'm sure someone will correct me on this matter.

[zorgon]

I think you'd want to But I would want to train, train, train.

ONLY  if you were actually GOING to the Moon

[zorgon]

You mean they had colour cameras on the un-manned Apollo orbiter/lander?

When I say Clementine I mean Clementine  I do not Mean Apollo orbiter/lander

Clementine was a US NAVY mission, NASA only did mission control

The Apollo Astronauts had Hassalblad 120 cameras and yes those were color also

[zorgon]

There were some explantions suggested !
That it may have been due to the explosives used on Take of from the Moon...and we are seeing the underbelly of it..

By the GODS You got it!!!   

Yup they blew the thing back into space with explosives... that were special explosives that didn't puncture the thin shell of the module with the AstroNots inside

[zorgon]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/LM_illustration_02.jpg

Hmmm Interesting picture...

Please show me on that drawing where they parked THIS

[zorgon]

I don't think they used explosive to lift off. I remember them talking about an engine with a valve that they just opened up and it fired the engine. That's a really rough explanation but it was something like that. I'm sure someone will correct me on this matter.

Yes they did not use explosives   We are not that good at making directional charges that are guaranteed to work right

Apollo 17 LM Ascent Stage

The Ascent Propulsion System (APS) or Lunar Module Ascent Engine (LMAE) is a fixed-thrust hypergolic rocket engine developed by Bell Aerosystems for use in the Apollo Lunar Module Ascent Stage. It used Aerozine 50 fuel, and N2O4 oxidizer. Rocketdyne provided the injector system, at the request of NASA, when Bell could not solve combustion instability problems

During the spring of 1963, Grumman hired Bell to develop the Lunar Module ascent engine, on the assumption that Bell's experience in development of the Air Force Agena engine would be transferable to the Lunar Module requirements. Grumman placed heavy emphasis upon high reliability through simplicity of design, and the ascent engine emerged as the least complicated of the three main engines in the Apollo space vehicle, including the LM descent and CSM service propulsion system engines.

Embodying a pressure-fed fuel system using hypergolic (self-igniting) propellants, the ascent engine was fixed-thrust and nongimbaled, capable of lifting the ascent stage off the Moon or aborting a landing if necessary.

The engine developed about 3,500 pounds-force (16 kN) of thrust, which produced a velocity of 2,000 meters per second from lunar launch,[citation needed] to LOR, and CM docking.[1] It weighed 180 pounds (81.6 kg), with a length of 47 inches (119.4 cm) and diameter of 34 inches (86.4 cm).

According to the Science Channel's documentary Moon Machines, the fuel and oxidizer were so corrosive that the engines had to be rebuilt after each firing. This meant that each ascent from the Moon was performed with an engine that had not been test-fired prior to flight.

Well Since NASA never actually went to the moon (and forgot how they did anyway )  it seems they revamped these rockets for the new attempts

RS-18 Engine

Rocketdyne brought the Lunar Module Ascent Engine (LMAE) out of its 36-year retirement, now designated as RS-18, and reconfigured this non-throttleable hypergolic engine to use LOX/Methane for NASA Exploration Systems Architecture Study (ESAS) engine testing in 2008.

So IF they went to the moon  and EVERY landing was PERFECT and FLAWLESS 

WHY do they need to reinvent the moon lander?

Poor thing is whimpering in pain



OH  and speaking about practice  

[zorgon]

The Technical Record of the Apollo Program? A Space Junkyard

At 4:55 when Buzz was asked could this have worked he says "Yeah it could have been tested" 



NASA Admits "LOSING" All Moon Landing Data [Original Version] | FYM ARCHIVES(Ignore the flat eart overlays  LOL )

[zorgon]

The Saga Of the Lost Space Tapes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013002065.html?noredirect=on

'One small step for man,' 700-box tape loss for NASA

The tapes also contain data about the health of the astronauts and the condition of the spacecraft. In all, some 700 boxes of transmissions from the Apollo lunar missions are missing, he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html

When we say "tapes"  we are talking 120 MM and 35 MM tapes 14 inches in diameter like THESE



All here...

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/41Group_Lunar_FYEO/02files/FYEO_Lunar_12.html

BBC Apollo 11 Missing Tapes
Sir Patrick Moore



Moore has undertaken significant research in astronomy. It was revealed in a TV programme that when the Russians wanted accurate information on the Moon over a number of years, they first went to America then other countries for the information but could not turn it up. Then someone suggested Patrick Moore and on going to his house and asking him, they were invited in. Moore left them and returned with a pile of exercise books with all the necessary information in, his records of observations over many years which is how in 1959, the Soviet Union used his charts of the moon to correlate their first pictures of the far side with his mapped features on the near side and he was involved in the lunar mapping used by the NASA Apollo space missions. In 1965, he was appointed Director of the newly-constructed Armagh Planetarium, a post he held until 1968. During the Apollo programme, he was one of the presenters of BBC television's coverage of the moon landing missions. The tapes of these broadcasts no longer exist: conflicting stories have circulated as to what precisely happened to them, or whether the broadcasts were recorded at all.

SOURCE: WIKIPEDIA

Sir Patrick Moore (RIP) was there at the Apollo 11 debriefing... asked them about seeing stars on the moon

[zorgon]

I'm sure someone will correct me on this matter.

There was a REASON that SYSGOD invented Google Search 








NASA SCIENTIST SAYS:

[astr0144]

Sgt R&R made a ref to question use of explosives and referred to the LM having an engine...  which I replied to in this link which I think you referred to as you relate to one of the LM images..

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=11034.msg144952#msg144952

As I understand it  NASA suggested that  they used explosive bolts and a Ascent Engine.

I have no idea how the explosive bolts may effect the LM ascent stage if they did use them on LM take off..

Zorgon ref to Sgt RR
Yes they did not use explosives   We are not that good at making directional charges that are guaranteed to work right

and as I said before.. I dont know what materials that they may have used at the bottom of the Lunar Module Ascent stage... Is there some sort of Heat shield that is made out of non metallic material that is maybe flexible.. is the only explanation that I could offer for seeing the buckling..That may absorb the shock...or maybe used to try to avoid any fire damage on certain areas..if fire can develop in outer space around the craft ! 

But maybe the engine on those pictures is not shown...

if thats the case, then thats for further investigation ?

which when looking again is not seeming to be shown..

The only possibilty is that it maybe being shielded / covered over by what ever that buckled material is if say it was designed to flex over the lower side of the under carrage of the Ascent Stage LM after take off..

and I have to admitt what they show in the image seems very weird..
either way.. ..even if its done as a hoax.. they appear to have done a poor job on making it look more realistic by being more solid like...or appearing legit !

It maybe that this actual image is not real... and could there be other images that may show diferent , maybe even used on other missions ?

We are only seeing one image of several missions they we were led to believe have occurred.. so really I would have to see other similar images of the LM ascent stage from other missions also,  to see if they appear similar !

but I have a feeling those maybe hard to find..


I JUST FOUND THIS ...which I am unable to copy the images ..

THIS SHOWS WHAT Materials were used for th heat shield on part of the Command Module that could have been similar... its like a fibreglass/ nylon/  aluminium thermal blanket.. I think this is used more on reentry thru the Earths atmosphere.

THERMAL PROTECTION (HEAT SHIELDS)
The interior of the command module must be
protected from the extremes of environment that
will be encountered during a mission. These include
the heat of boost (up to 1200°F), the cold of space
and the heat of the direct rays of the sun (about
280° below zero on the side facing away from the
sun and 280° above zero on the other side), andmost
critical-the intense temperatures of entry(about 5000°F).

Heat shields
CREW COMPARTMENT
HEAT SHIELD
The heat of launch is absorbed principally through
the boost protective cover, a fiberglass structure
covered with cork which fits over the command
module like a glove. The boost protective cover
weighs about 700 pounds and varies in thickness
from about 3/10 of an inch to about 7/8 of an
inch (at the top). The cork is covered with a white
reflective coating. The cover is permanently attached
to the launch escape tower and is jettisoned with it
at approximately 295,000 feet during a normal
mission.
The insulation between the inner and outer shells,
plus temperature control provided by the environmental
control subsystem, protects the crew and
sensitive equipment during the CM's long journey in
space.
The principal task of the heat shield that forms the
outer structure is to protect the crew from the fiery
heat of entry-heat so intense that it melts most
metals. The ablative material that does this job is a
phenolic epoxy resin, a type of reinforced plastic

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/CSM06_Command_Module_Overview_pp39-52.pdf





This is the only image that I have found so far that shows where the ascent engine is supposed to be... The engine is in the middle of the higher section to the left of the blue like round ball...that is one of  the fuel tanks.




I did notice this and It does make it seem too risky for any astronaut to want to consider you would think !

I surpose one arguement would be.. Astonauts like Neil Armstrong was shown to be taking huge risks testing the LM on Earth..he could have easiy been killed during testing several times..

Zorgon
According to the Science Channel's documentary Moon Machines, the fuel and oxidizer were so corrosive that the engines had to be rebuilt after each firing. This meant that each ascent from the Moon was performed with an engine that had not been test-fired prior to flight.

from: astr0144 on August 05, 2018, 12:19:08 AM

    There were some explantions suggested !
    That it may have been due to the explosives used on Take of from the Moon...and we are seeing the underbelly of it..

By the GODS You got it!!!   

Yup they blew the thing back into space with explosives... that were special explosives that didn't puncture the thin shell of the module with the AstroNots inside

I assume that diagram drawing is for one of the LMs before the Lunar Rover was used...

In the earlier missions they did not use Lunar Rovers from Apollo 11 to 14..

They used it  from Apollo 15 onwards to 17.. around 1971 / 72

The Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV) or lunar rover is a battery-powered four-wheeled rover used on the Moon in the last three missions of the American Apollo program (15, 16, and 17) during 1971 and 1972. It was popularly known as "moon buggy", a play on the words "dune buggy".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Roving_Vehicle

Hmmm Interesting picture...

Please show me on that drawing where they parked THIS

This offers some suggestions for how they took the Lunar Rover to the Moon via LM..

http://www.collectspace.com//ubb/Forum29/HTML/000731.html










Whether they did or did not go to the Moon...

what they did do was still an amazing job engineering and Science wise IMO..
when you see these sort of images...


I think even if they created everything to go to the moon, if that was actually possible..or to hoax it...was an amazing challenge alone

BUT To then actually put all that to the test.. and actually  go there and land a man on the moon  and for them to survive come back ...  would have been truely incredible..

I agree to do all that is numerous times more of a challenge than creating it all..

and if they did do it... It would have been totally amazing the more you think about it and what is required to do so..

In some ways the more you look into things.. the harder it all seems to have been...so you can question that challenge to consider disbeliving it as being possible on the complexities to be able to achieve it alone.

[Pimander]

ONLY  if you were actually GOING to the Moon

I think they trained the Apollo 11 crew and didn't tell them they were not really going until the last minute.  That would explain why they looked so shocked and confused when they got back and everyone (even Patrick Moore) didn't question it.

It amazes me that people are convinced they went still.  Cognitive dissonance in my opinion.  The landings and return journeys were faked.  To me it is not even a particularly convincing fake.  The astronauts look like they are lying because they are.  They look guilty because they are.

[Shasta56]

I figure we have two options to  believe. We either believe they went, or we don't.  I wasn't there, in any case, so I can't  play eye witness to what happened.  I  think incontrovertible evidence on way or another will be released some day.