Undo's Super Gripe

[undo11]

okay to clear up what just happened, a51watcher apparently thought accusing me of being mentally ill, was over the top. so he removed 1worldwatcher's post and my post where i quoted 1worldwatcher. then hobbit's post about me trying to be joan of ark or something,was also deleted presumably because it was inspired by the former comment by 1ww that i was suffering from a messiah or persecution complex, along with all the baggage that goes along with that.  i appreciate his defense, but am concerned that any such defense in a thread of this nature (et.al, removing posts), qualifies as censorship and far be it from me to censor other people.  i would love it if people actually cared enough about me to not encourage and perpetuate the kind of anomosity that is currently all over the place, because (egads) christians are just as human as the next guy, and do silly/dumb/mean things, just like everybody else.  i mean this is a human condition is it not?   

i know why people get frustrated, i just wish the level of frustration currently being pushed all over the place, didn't have all the earmarks of genocide in the making

[A51Watcher]

probably not a good idea to remove other people's posts.  free speech and all that.  i might not agree with what they're saying but i want them to decide they like me enough not to think such things in the first place. but for that to happen, i have to explain why it's bad and what i actually believe in the first place, so i'm not  consigned to martyrdom i have already experienced before and don't want to go thru again.

Please see mod actions thread.

eta: I see you did. We do not tolerate personal attacks or ad homenim attacks of any kind here at PRC.

We also do not edit posts to remove the offending parts and leave the rest. Entire post is moved.

If anyone posts a personal attack of any kind it will be moved to the Mod review forum and Zorgon notified.

Personal attacks are not free speech.

I don't make the rules here, I just follow them.

[undo11]

Please see mod actions thread.

eta: I see you did. We do not tolerate personal attacks or ad homenim attacks of any kind here at PRC.

We also do not edit posts to remove the offending parts and leave the rest. Entire post is moved.

If anyone posts a personal attack of any kind it will be moved to the Mod review forum and Zorgon notified.

Personal attacks are not free speech.

I don't make the rules here, I just follow them.

well to keep the peace i will not be posting any more threads on this subject in my defense or the defense of other christians.  just wanted to get it out of my system so that when i see similar stuff in posts, i can just either point to this thread, or refuse to respond to the comment. i didn't want to take yet another thread off topic, in which christians are called pedophiles and what not.  it makes no sense to me that only christians who have problems of that nature, are targeted for public humiliation when it's like everywhere, in every world view.  i suppose it's because the text teaches differently, but just cause it teaches differently doesn't mean people who try to follow it or claim they follow, can actually or will actually, do so.  same as anything else. one day you might be an atheist, the next an agnostic, and the next day buddhist and the next day an atheist.  we're all subject to the same human conditions. 

if we weren't, the crimes of those in religion wouldn't sound suspiciously like the crimes of those not in religion. lol

am i not making sense or what? 

[A51Watcher]

I think you are making sense just fine. And the reason behind this thread is perfectly valid.

And I think the others were doing just fine too until they crossed the line.


The lesson here is while debating in any thread on any subject, make your point without personal attacks.

They do nothing to bolster your case and are a sure sign to everyone you are desperate.

[Linda Brown]

I don't know what happened to escalate the discussion to the level that it has reached in the last few hours but I have to say that I have seen this before. Look around you folks CAREFULLY. Do you see what has been happening here?

Look around you folks and be VERY careful not to let these emotions flare into just what I can sense here... This is NOT a force for good working amongst us here....All of you are responding to possibly a button pushed by someone or SOMETHING ELSE . Can you see it operating in between the lines here??

Don't let this happen. Please.

And Undo..... why is it important to even have the topic of Undos Super Gripe up there as a topic of discussion? Do you see that it is a door that another force can use to begin causing disruption. Do you see it happening??

I see the fingerprints of something here that is not welcomed by any of us. Please do not let it get a hold on the discussions that are so valuable here by using each one of you against the other. Steady folks and look.   Linda

[Linda Brown]

I don't know what happened to escalate the discussion to the level that it has reached in the last few hours but I have to say that I have seen this before. Look around you folks CAREFULLY. Do you see what has been happening here?

Look around you folks and be VERY careful not to let these emotions flare into just what I can sense here... This is NOT a force for good working amongst us here....All of you are responding to possibly a button pushed by someone or SOMETHING ELSE . Can you see it operating in between the lines here??

Undo you said..."just wanted to get it out of my system so that when i see similar stuff in posts, i can just either point to this thread, or refuse to respond to the comment. i didn't want to take yet another thread off topic, " and I wanted to ask WHY was that so important?? Do you see that you are being used here by something BEYOND you?Don't let this happen. Please.

And Undo..... why is it important to even have the topic of Undos Super Gripe up there as a topic of discussion? Do you see that it is a door that another force can use to begin causing disruption. Do you see it happening?? 

I see the fingerprints of something here that is not welcomed by any of us. Please do not let it get a hold on the discussions that are so valuable here by using each one of you against the other. Steady folks and look.   Linda

[rdunk]

Undo said, "Am i not making sense or what?

Undo, you have said a lot in this thread, "Super Gripe"!! You have really made your points, relative to the position of Christians in this world. In fact, the way you describe it,things are pretty much how we are told the "World" would be, by God's Word, in the Bible. So, no surprises here, just the exasperation of it all, which can be a bit bothersome, at times, for some of we Christians.

In my opinion, there have been some good exchanges in this thread, and hopefully all of us have been helped to some extent!! Thank you for posting it.

I am glad to see the attention given to anything that might be considered "getting personal", intended or not. That for sure is a "law" of this forum, to precipitate the level of informed mutual discussion that is a benefit to all of us. This is an element of this forum that I really like, and I credit zorgon for "making it so"!!!   

[undo11]

i've pointed this out before, regarding pedophilia in the roman catholic church. i have a theory that it all started back during the ancient grecian empire which was pagan. at the time, it was something we call pederasty. 

women were just strictly for making new offspring and everything else about the social order was focused on the male human, particularly the male human physique,  and various ways to glorify it in its many stages of maturity, from childhood to adulthood.

the adult male would take on a student, or apprentice, who would learn everything he needed to know about life, from the adult male.  then by the time he was 18, the child was now a man and would go out and find his own apprentice. i think the choir boy thing and incidences of pedophilia is left over from those days. i also think the incidences of pedophilia with young girls in islam, also harkens back to the time when a female was ready to be a wife, the minute she was capable of conceiving, presumably because they had shorter life spans.  girls begin menustrating at almost any age, oftentimes many years shy of being an adult.  this lead to what we in the western world call pedophilia with young females, and forced marriages as well.

wiki's pederasty link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

pedophilia or pederasty was not isolated to the south of europe either.  it was all over the middle, near and far east.  in effect, these are issues that today we frown upon because medically, we have found that such practices are socially destructive and emotionally, physically damaging to young children.  but the practice itself, stems from older pagan social, sexual traditions that just continued on into the priesthoods and religious teachings of other religions.

[Linda Brown]

Undo..... tell me honestly..... what prompted you to post your last message?   Linda

[undo11]

Undo..... tell me honestly..... what prompted you to post your last message?   Linda

a post by littleenki that recounted pedophile priests as being particularly evil.   i'm just pointing out that everything has a reason. it's a theory though. i can't prove it, but since the roman empire took over the grecian empire it seems likely they assimilated the practice, because they both worshipped the same gods anyway and had similar forms of showing that worship. they were neighbors too.  and the men who were priests of the pagan version of the roman empire, became priests of the holy roman empire.   

so although the roman empire was focused on the strength of the nuclear family moreso than the grecian empire, i think pederasty continued on in the priesthood. and isn't that kind thing generational?   

[Linda Brown]

What I am asking is what is inspiring you to pick this particular topic when you should know by any rights at all that this is a highly charged negative subject. Why suddenly have you decided to even answer what Littleenki threw out there.

Who out there in the general populace does not know that the Catholic Church has had some very damaging instances with thier priests. Why do we need to discuss that here? What is it that is so important to mention it and to open the subject? I am asking you because you are the one who is leading this thread... you are the one who decided to " get certain things out in the open so that you would feel better" and I would like to know ..... WHY???

Why is this important for you to say

recounted pedophile priests as being particularly evil.   i'm just pointing out that everything has a reason. it's a theory though. i can't prove it, but since the roman empire took over the grecian empire it seems likely they assimilated the practice,

Every statement does have a reason. What are yours here? I am being tough on you Undo because I believe that the really raw topic buttons that you have.... are being used here outside of your control..... and you don't see it at all.... which concerns me.... both for you and for the future safety of this Forum.

Why is it important to go in this direction when you should know by all rights that it is going to cause dissention and division here??? You have the choice to head in another direction.  Linda

[undo11]

it was littleenki's sudden outburst on the subject, which among other things, discussed  his frustration with religion/religious people.  it was the final straw. not the only straw. i've been picking up various little digs all throughout the forum on the subject. 

personally, i'm not catholic and never have been although i find some of their data to be quite accurate and don't for five seconds think all priests are pedophiles nor that pedophilia is a catholic priest only problem.  to believe that, i would have to ignore the rest of the planet.   

it's very hard for me to defend catholicism but it's easy pie to defend catholics in general.  not that i'm defending pedophliia but the rationale behind it seems to stem back to a socially accepted, common practice of the time when the catholic religion was formed.  if there are pedophile priests in the catholic church, it's my theory that that's where it originated from.

i think this helps elucidate the subject and draw attention to the fact that catholics are also humans and as a result, can display the same character flaws found through out humans everywhere.

[Linda Brown]

We all know that we are flawed individuals. Tell us something else? Tell us all stuff we might NOT know.... Tell us why you decide to use this thread to discuss this in specifics? Do you even know why?

WHY for example did you choose to say this?

not that i'm defending pedophliia but the rationale behind it seems to stem back to a socially accepted, common practice of the time when the catholic religion was formed.  if there are pedophile priests in the catholic church, it's my theory that that's where it originated from.

I am not going to pick up the little challenge that was thrown down just then because I KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT DOING IT...... ARE YOU??  And if not.... WHY did you choose to say that?  Linda

[undo11]

We all know that we are flawed individuals. Tell us something else? Tell us all stuff we might NOT know.... Tell us why you decide to use this thread to discuss this in specifics? Do you even know why?   Linda

yeah because i thought it was time to defend christians.  like littleenki said, just google christian atrocities and you find pages of it.  if i googled other religious atrocities or atheist atrocities, i might find a page or two, but i bet it'd be dwarfed by the sheer magnitude of negative articles about christianity and perhaps islam and judaism.  all abrahmaic religions, which i theorize are actually based on ancient egyptian and sumerian history.

this focus on only christians and or, abrahamic faiths, seems to be a concentrated effort, and i wanted to ask the people here, who claim to be my friends, to not feed it anymore because, it's really hard to take anything you say seriously if at the same time you're stereotyping me and trying constantly to make me appear to be subhuman, crazy, or any variation inbetween.  you got about five seconds to tell me what is you want to know, specifically, before i have a meltdown of my own. 

[undo11]

this is the video game i play (i usually play a healer, typically a paladin but i also have a druid and a priest), and no i'm not a pedophile.  notice the people playing are all adult males, some appear to be in their 30s-40s, one looks like he might even be in his 50s.    but women also play it.  my daughter in law plays it, but she plays a healer too, so when we group, i have to play something else. so i play tank, usually.  i prefer healing though.  because being female, i prefer to heal things rather than break them.  sue enki if you don't like it. lol