I Was Interviewed on Red List Radio Last Night!

[Amaterasu]

The human race needs to advance a LOT more before that could even begin to happen.  90%ish of humans are lazy by nature and if everything was free and done for them they would simply do nothing.

No We're not.  90% of Us cannot afford Our bliss - be it education, traveling, researching, painting, sculpting, creating movies, teaching, camping, ee. tee. cee.  There would be few couch potatoes if Those who now are such could afford to do what They love to do or go where They want to go.

Communist Russia is proof of this and the main reason that communism fails. There was zero incentive to do better, so no one wanted to work harder to create something or improve something. There was no drive or incentive to invent things...

No it's not.  At no time, in the energy scarcity of C.R. did everyOne have the freedom to pursue Their bliss.  And when the system is set up where the only work available is the stuff robots will do in the abundance paradigm, then sure.  No One will work.  They don't want to do the menial stuff and They can't afford the wonderful stuff.

A few people would run with it and use the freedom to advantage... but the majority of humanity would turn into lazy bums.  Even Star Trek covered that with the Holodeck addiction

When necessary, People will do necessary problem-solving - especially in the stigmergic governance where everyOne who WANTS to participate, who CARES, can do so.  And believe Me, if the problem affect You, You WILL care.  If no One cares...it's not a problem.  And if there are no problems, everything runs smoothly...  More power to You if You want to play on the holodeck.

You would see a world wide "opium den" like happened in China

Considering that such drug use (to the point of "abuse") is virtually always a means of escaping powerlessness and strife, I will bet not.

[Amaterasu]

... Skype...

My system hates Skype.  Crash city on this old, tired box.

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

There's something to both arguments, but let's not forget that most people need something to do. It will come about by itself.
In the middle ages, we had Guilds & such, apprenteships in one craft or another. This has all but died out, i get handed 'engineers' who learnt everything from a computer, but they can't chop down a few trees to make a bridge, hell, i wouldn't trust them to boil an egg.
"Sorry, sir, but the computer says we can't do it"

Once there is no more TV, no internet, no Playstations, and especially no lavish lifestyle, people will get off their butts & do things for themselves.

Once we get past the 'work or starve'  part of the transition, things will start to move a lot smoother......let's just keep our minds on the goal.

PS we don't need Skype, i have a spare phone line lying around in here somewhere......

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

Communist Russia is proof of this and the main reason that communism fails. There was zero incentive to do better, so no one wanted to work harder to create something or improve something. There was no drive or incentive to invent things...
No it's not.  At no time, in the energy scarcity of C.R. did everyOne have the freedom to pursue Their bliss.  And when the system is set up where the only work available is the stuff robots will do in the abundance paradigm, then sure.  No One will work.  They don't want to do the menial stuff and They can't afford the wonderful stuff.

Both of you have it right, there was no incentive to work, and no money to improve the situation.
(at least, there are a whole lot of Russian millionairs around now, so why isn't that money going back into the economy?)
Same problem as capitalism...
Once the paper is worthless, only knoweledge will be important, or worth anything at all..
And yes, Asimov saw all this (including the pitfalls)...

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

Don't get me wrong, there will be plenty of lazy couch potatoes, but they will eventually die of obesity & heart disease, while everyone is out playing on the beach, if that isn't a good incentive, what is?
Why not just legalise everything, & let the junks kill themselves off, as Amy says: Each to their Bliss.
Of course it's a crying shame & waste of a good human, but if THAT fact was taught in schools, there would be far less of it, IMHO.

[undo11]

PWM

only knoweledge will be important, or worth anything at all.

only certain kinds of knowledge will be worthless.   like so many people today think they know all there is to know, or all they want to know, about the last 10,000 years of civilization. 

[undo11]

Once we get past the 'work or starve'  part of the transition, things will start to move a lot smoother......let's just keep our minds on the goal.

are you sure you like people?

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

PWM

only certain kinds of knowledge will be worthless.   like so many people today think they know all there is to know, or all they want to know, about the last 10,000 years of civilization.

Yes, i agree with you, absolutely. We know very little about our past, and even less about the future.

Do i like people?
To be honest: not really, i'm a bit of a sociopath.
Normally i think 'just let 'em get on with it'.
But in the last 10 years or so, i have witnessed a whole lot of stuff that makes me think twice.
When i meet INDIVIDUALS, i normally get on with them straight away, never had a problem, (unless they are drunken skinheads out for a fight), i won't have a problem with them

But i cast my own feelings aside here, i FEEL for humanity as a whole, even though i think we are no more than a virus on planet earth.
I FEEL for the earth, and i have enough faith left in my fellow humans to know that they feel what i feel.

We are looking for a solution, even if it's 99% debate.
I am learning to communicate with other humans, give me time,OK?
'Typo virus'

[undo11]

so then is it safe to say that you're really not interested in the welfare of the sick, elderly or starving, but rather in the welfare of the earth and people who have enough money to get whatever they need ?  for example, my teeth all turned to chalk, years ago, as a result, i put alot of stress on my digestive system by eating anything with bulk, cause most of it i can't properly chew.  my dentures were not fitted properly, so by the time all the swelling went down i found myself with dentures that needed to be repaired and no money to do so.  we have had to pay for all my dental work out of our own pockets.  we spent a good 30,000 dollars over the years, only to end up having to have them all pulled out at once.  and it wasn't because i was lazy and didn't take care of my teeth. 

what happened was i was a health nut, and kept getting weird upper respiratory infections, one right after the other, nearly back to back (allergies that went undiagnosed for at least 20 years, some of them food allergies).  so i lived on chewable vitamin c made from acerola cherries.  i'd chew 1000s of milligrams worth every day.  ate the enamel right off my teeth and i had no clue.  one day i had a free visit to a preventative dentist. he said, what have you been eating?! you have NO enamel on your teeth!  he was shocked.  so was i, to the tune of 30k in dental costs.

anyway, that is just one thing.  i also got gulf war syndrome went in the hospital in intensive neuro critical care (the bill was 75k, but we only had to pay 25% of it, still that's alot of money and they wanted it all right now now now and he was making poverty level wages working full time for the us air force . we qualified for food stamps, even while he was over seas being injected with experimental vaccines that darn near killed me.  i'm just one out of billions of people that would not be able to earn her own keep.  literally.  after the coma and the hospital, i was diagnosed with breast cancer. the chemo also nearly killed me.  my chemo port got infected, and when they flushed the port, it shot septic infection right into a main artery (while my immune system was fried from chemo!).  just because i had a hard life, doesn't mean you need to wish even more hard luck on me by suggesting if  i can't work, i shouldn't eat.  that's a prisoner's life not the life of a human.

[A51Watcher]

MY neighbourhood is the UK Linda and things are very bad if you need the income from a job that you probably hate to do to get by.
even the polish people are leaving to find work.I'm lucky being multi skilled and not being the materialistic person i was years ago.
I help those who need it for free when i can,BUT you cannot help a person who cannot help himself! even the basics. the youth of today have zero skills and don't wish to learn as there happy living off the government for free.In some case's they cannot help it that's all they know,There 3rd generation benefit seekers.
There are still some people with morals but family/company standards went out the window a long time ago.It's 99% work through "Agency's" and to me that sucks,your just a replaceable No in the system.  being in the north is not to bad compared with some of the poor cities in the west yorks area but things could be better.

United States calling... 


Heya stealthy,

Good observations. Sad to say we see much the same over here.


It would seem that this is the latest dot on the curve in the ongoing trend started some time ago of the focus and priority in one's life being self- amusement.

Here's a chap who observed the same -


Roger Waters - Amused To Death



[/youtube]



Doctor Doctor what is wrong with me

This supermarket life is getting long

What is the heart life of a colour TV

What is the shelf life of a teenage queen


Ooh western woman
Ooh western girl


News hound sniffs the air

When Jessica Hahn goes down

He latches on to that symbol
Of detachment

Attracted by the peeling away of feeling

The celebrity of the abused shell the belle


Ooh western woman
Ooh western girl


And the children of Melrose

Strut their stuff

Is absolute zero cold enough

And out in the valley warm and clean

The little ones sit by their TV screens

No thoughts to think
No tears to cry
All sucked dry
Down to the very last breath


Bartender what is wrong with me

Why am I so out of breath

The captain said excuse me ma'am

This species has amused itself to death

Amused itself to death
Amused itself to death

We watched the tragedy unfold

We did as we were told

We bought and sold

It was the greatest show on earth

But then it was over

We ohhed and aahed

We drove our racing cars

We ate our last few jars of caviar



And somewhere out there in the stars

A keen-eyed look-out
Spied a flickering light

Our last hurrah



And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists



And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left -


This species has amused itself to death



No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

 



(his powers of observation is almost good as Pim's eh?  )

[undo11]

a51watcher,

most rock stars make me want to scream because they live these lavish lives with everything they need and yet they bitch and complain that the grunts out here working their butts off, come home and watch tv.

[A51Watcher]

a51watcher,

most rock stars make me want to scream because they live these lavish lives with everything they need and yet they bitch and complain that the grunts out here working their butts off, come home and watch tv.

Agreed.

I think you'll find Rog however, to be a horse of another color altogether.   

Check out his accomplishments and activism and charity outside of Rock that he uses his notoriety for.

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

so then is it safe to say that you're really not interested in the welfare of the sick, elderly or starving, but rather in the welfare of the earth and people who have enough money to get whatever they need ? 

What? money? NO, money is the whole problem, it's outlived it's usefulness (if it ever had any)
And i feel for ALL humans, ESPECIALLY the sick.
We can cure most diseases already, but Big Pharma doesn't want that to happen, so it does not happen.....

just because i had a hard life, doesn't mean you need to wish even more hard luck on me by suggesting if  i can't work, i shouldn't eat.  that's a prisoner's life not the life of a human.

I never said that, i said lazy people who don't WANT to work, not those that CAN'T.
And i do have feelings, i am deeply moved by your account, and it even angers me that we let it happen, while spending countless billions on black projects etc, it's insane!
I can't do much about insurance/medical policies, i have the same problems, only they are not as bad as yours, you have my sympathy for that, i'm not a robot...


A51: Floyd rocks! plenty to read between the lines in their albums
They were born in the same sh*t i was, and they climbed out of it, good for them.

[undo11]

yes they climbed out of it and that is fantastic. but these people have home theaters with surround sound, in ground swimming pools, expensive narcotics habits, private jets, and all the same issues you find people have when they can afford them.   so why can't a poor or middle class guy, after working a hard job all day, come home and relax in front of the tv?  i don't think it's relaxation that's the problem. 

for example, all the original charlie's angels, who were fitness and health conscious, all developed breast cancer,  all three of them.   they can't say it was because they smoked or ate chicken skin. something else is going on.

[Amaterasu]

Don't get me wrong, there will be plenty of lazy couch potatoes, but they will eventually die of obesity & heart disease, while everyone is out playing on the beach, if that isn't a good incentive, what is?
Why not just legalise everything, & let the junks kill themselves off, as Amy says: Each to their Bliss.
Of course it's a crying shame & waste of a good human, but if THAT fact was taught in schools, there would be far less of it, IMHO.

In the abundance paradigm...  Everything IS legal - except as the three Laws preclude:  willfully hurting, killing, defrauding Others, willfully taking or damaging Other's property.