The Gold Ring

[Linda Brown]

Deuem,

I am so glad that you are there asking these questions. It gives me an opportunity to see the topics that have been covered and also the enormous amount of work that we all have to get the information " out there" Because yours are valid serious questions and you are trying to get from point a to point b. I really appreciate that~

I am sure that the questions that you have now will morph into more and more detailed ones as the first are answered. Thats maybe the object of this entire thing and maybe thats the most important job that the " lifter" could bring to all of us.... it is simple.... it is visible.... it works.....It makes an impression.

This is a quote directly from my book.... which of course others have tried to discount. You be the judge whether I have told the truth or not.

(understand this is from my work book here and is not the finished edited copy that is available here so there might be some slight adjustments to the text.)

http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/49963

When a group of ten gentlemen filed in I recognized Mr. Lear ( who I would later come to know as Bill Lear of Lear Jet fame) and Dr. Sarbacher, Daddys good friends who had made many trips out to Montressor. I started to wave to them but I remembered Dads instructions. I bent over the big typewriter pecking out " the quick red fox...."Mother said typists used that sentence for practice because it had all of the letters in it.

I peeked at the men out of the corner of my eye. Other than Mr. Lear and Dr. Sarbacher the rest of them were in uniforms. Some of them talked to each other and some talked to Daddy and asked him questions but the leader, an Admiral maybe, was quite gruff and acted as if he had other things to do and was already late. I got the impression that whatever it was Daddy wanted to show them, he had better be quick about it!

Dad directed the groups attention to a foil and balsa wood model that looked like an oversized silver envelope. " From everything  that you know about science..... if I apply power to this should it move?" Dad asked.

The important man took a walk around the wingless contraption. " No! Certainly NOT!" He snapped in a tone of voice that seemed to say...." What a complete waste of my time this morning is turning out to be."

"Would you like to bet your career on that?" Daddy asked as he reached over to a black knob like the one that made my electric train go around. He turned it a bit to the right and the little envelope started to shiver.The most curious of the men, those closest to it, took a half step backward! Dad turned the knob some more and the form shook even harder. Now it was starting to hiss! The men stepped back still again, bumping into each other in the process. I couldn't help but look up. The silver model was rising in the air, higher and higher until it was hovering dead level with the Admirals wide open mouth. ( That was the greatest sight I had ever seen!)

The meeting didn't last much longer. The group walked out almost as quickly as they had come in, but now they were much quieter. When the door closed behind them I asked Dad what all of that meant. He beamed at me and said " Oh. Alot of things Sweetie. A whole lot of things!"

[Mikado]

Mikado, I seem to remember that when we came once before to this discussion of the tunnel diode's role in submarine communications, Mr.  Twigsnapper (insert usual cavet here about unknown internet sources) responded with something like..."communications with whom?"

The range of possible answers can be quite extensive.

rose

Mr. twigsnapper you say? okay.

I agree that the range of possible answers could but not only would be quite extensive. In fact, if I were say to say that I was in communication with someone this afternoon the list could be just as large.

Let's not hear things that go bump in the night and react as if it is something other than what it is, a bump in the night or perhaps just that - communications.

Tunnel diodes as in current semiconductor descriptions function in the forward bias direction as one thing but will have Zener action in the reverse bias function. Somehow, I don't think that is what twigsnapper <g> was meaning, a semiconductor as described in electronics theory. But he was talking a semiconductive result...perhaps, and is quite explainable and is a very unwanted condition when working with EG. Provided of course that twigsnapper <g> was referring to some written work of Dr. Brown.

Mikado

[deuem]

Linda, thank you for that nice story. I can vision them and their faces.

So far what I can put together is this. It looks to me that the ionization part is a by product and not the reason. One, it was turned into a type of fan that proves it to me. Two, this worked in a vacuum chamber. No air and still lifted.  So it is displacing the Gravity B wave somehow. B is a weak wave and the lifters in question are very light.

Back to Littleenki. B Waves in space are so small, what would it do?

Back to earth. If this does have an affect on B waves, then something is going on besides the ion. I need to look into Mikados link on the generator and I will be back on that.

All I need to do is to get my car say 12 inches or more off the ground. It does not have to fly yet. Hover is Ok with me. No tires-no road friction, no steering rods, shocks, springs, wheel wells, brakes, tubes, liquids, transmission, rear or front axel gearing and anything else in the car devoted to the tires. End game = better mileage. I would bet that is about 1/3 to 1/2 of the overall weight. So the force needed to move it then would be a lot less.

Linda mentioned rectangular. My SUV has this foot print. So if we can forget about the UFO possibility and bring it down to ground, we can all use it. Please forget any roads where we need an imbedded track. This thing has to run anywhere, even across water or dirt roads to be practical. We already have mass transit and few people use it. Transit that is run on a track or wires.

Deuem

[zorgon]

Was your Puthoff one of them?

He is not 'My' Puthoff He just shows up in anything and everything I research, like Fox Mulder's smoking man

Never met him and can only post what others say he has said. I have heard many times that that was his opinion, but that was the first time I  found the actual quote

I hear tell that in the early days of the Pegasus yahoo group, he did show up. So maybe I should send him an invite to join the fray

[Littleenki]

Mornin' Dueum!

I think if it were to be a viable space propulsion system, it would at this point be a secondary system which would be used for long journeys, where the craft would have a while to gain velocity.

As far as instantaneous thrust, it may not be as useful, so regular thrusters could be employed for maneuvering and such.

You have a great idea about the friction of the car being negated with the technology, but as such, that friction is also what enables a car to stop and turn with controllability.

A car which employed a lifter type hovering system would require some pretty serious brakes of some kind to stop it's mass from hurtling forward.

It's a funny story about when I got to ride in a hovercraft built by a friend, and he had no ability to steer or stop without flooring the engine for thrust, and we found out the hard way hovercrafts dont steer worth a dang, by running into everything in sight!

We were the scourge of the lake that day, and finally just idled around safely until we ran out of gas!LOL!

So, I have to ask, with all the back and forthing weve done in this thread so far, have we really discovered the true force that lifts a lifter? Has the engineering talk brought forth any fruit, or is it the same questions and guesses that make up the thick book of lifter mystery?

Negative chasing positive?
Polarity not mattering?
Tethered devices not leaving their power supplies?

What really makes it work?

A component of gravity or electricity, or both? Of course, but what is it that the high voltage does that a low voltage wouldnt, besides make the thing a hundred times more dangerous?

Would some magnets thrown into the mix make a difference?

I wonder if anyone has tried to use magnets to alter the lifting force which occurs with a lifter, and how a lifter might be creating it's own magnetic field which it hovers in. Could a lifter be made with some magnetic materials, instead of foil and balsa? Yes, but what would that do?

All maybes...and what is it in space that the lifter so craves when it begins on it's journey upward? Does tha aether have something to do with it, as if the lifter is looking for the correct density of aether when it goes aloft?

As I posed earlier in the forum, is a lifter a meter for measuring some force, such as aether density or a device which according to it's particular input voltage that finds a sweet spot in the broth?

I wonder where one would stop if we did have one with an onboard HVPS.
The ionosphere? The moon?
Never?

It would probably be the next step to understanding lifter tech, if we could just let it fly, and see where it went.

Sorry to leave this morning with more questions than answers, but it is a deep subject, with lots of unanswered questions.

Le

[deuem]

Littleenki, If this lifted off the ground in a vacuum chamber, then the atmosphere has nothing to do with it. Your so called aether? It is pure Gravity B. I also think that anyone who has plans on going the next step will never discuss them. It would feel like they are giving away a multi-million dollar idea. When inventors hit the brick wall, they go fishing. The fish also go hunting for inventors.

So in a way I think I am answering my own question. I think that anyone that has this tech and knows the next step will never say anything and might even take it to the grave in search of the pot at the end of the rainbow. Or it is so wrapped up in black projects, we will never figure it out becuse of the resources needed for that step. Like in the billions.....Either way, I will never see my floating SUV..

Deuem

[Littleenki]

Good point, D, maybe its already solved.

I have a floating suv, with a yamaha 150..

Le

[Linda Brown]

And Deuem. Maybe you will "see" something more important..... the lifter, the propulsion systems.... they were all " ashtray products". Go for what really counts.

Linda

[Littleenki]

Dueum, do you have access to a good pic of alifter on operation?
I bet youd have a fiwld day with it!:)
Le

[deuem]

[deuem]

Dueum, do you have access to a good pic of alifter on operation?
I bet youd have a fiwld day with it!:)
Le

No, And today it feels like I should kick myself day. You are the second person today to mention something I should have done but haven't. Silly Deuem. The other one was to compare chem and con trails. Ouch that I felt. There are most likely others I have missed. On the lifter I would think a frame grab from a video would work. And I take it you have a pontoon boat. Our lake used to be full of them ( at home not here ) Me, I liked the blow boats. The double hulled ones with a stretched canvas floor. I had an 18 footer you could water ski behind if the wind was up and on the salt. I somersaulted it several times.

I will try to get some photos, it is now on my list of things to do. Lifter vid or good photos in the air.

Deuem

[Mikado]

A good deal has been had in discussing a lifter. Most, that I have seen and operate, are constructed from balsa wood and have asymmetric plates. The plates are a skirt that is positioned perpendicular to the ground or the table it is being set upon. Above that is a corona wire (that is a reference word only that I borrow from other devices). They are usually constructed in a triangle shape with an upright pole at each corner, and the larger that I have seen are multiple triangles. Say, if you took a square shape and put a support from opposite corner to opposite corner and then did it again so that there would be four triangles inside of a square. What is being accomplished by doing this is to create multiple sections, in other words, each triangle is a capacitor, asymmetric, and the entire lot are capacitors in parallel. Each capacitor contributing a thrust component.

The lifter has a fluid dielectric, the fluid is the atmosphere. The dielectric constant of air is 1. + and the dielectric of vacuum is 1. They are close enough to be considered relatively equal. Although not a lifter, Dr. Brown did some experiments at Bahnson in which he had an asymmetric disc in oil. When charged, he would be able to see the ionization patterns and flow that would happen in the air. But there were also other reasons. Think oil in capacitors.

Getting back on the topic. When in the atmosphere, the corona wire sets up a field of ionization. The skirt, is charged oppositely from the corona wire and the ionization field will migrate toward the skirt according to Coulomb. This process creates a movement of the dielectric which is the ion wind and is known as EHD (ElectroHydrodynamics).

However, there is a component to the device that is not readily recognized and that is the Biefeld-Brown effect.

To figure that out, look at the K for air and vacuum and you might see how it works in a vacuum, if it even does and I doubt it.

Mikado

[deuem]

The lifter has a fluid dielectric, the fluid is the atmosphere. The dielectric constant of air is 1. + and the dielectric of vacuum is 1. They are close enough to be considered relatively equal. Although not a lifter, Dr. Brown did some experiments at Bahnson in which he had an asymmetric disc in oil. When charged, he would be able to see the ionization patterns and flow that would happen in the air. But there were also other reasons. Think oil in capacitors.
Mikado

Should I take this as, submerged or resting on oil. If the oil was a mineral oil, should it react similar to air? If it was submerged in Oil, then where would the Ions come from, the Oil?

On the vacuum, there is pulling a vacuum, anything under room psi and then pulling till nothing or amost nothing is left at all. One is for putting lids on things the other is for coating optics. To get a 100% vacuum is very difficult. I don't know if it can be done or not.

If you know this answer off hand let me know, If not I can go figure it out. "When Ions are produced, from which gas in the air are they comming from?"

At this moment, it still looks to me that the Ions are a result and not the reason.

Deuem

[deuem]

To anyone who has a lifter or knows this answer.

What would happen if the top corona wires were placed in a clear plastic straw? Would it still lift?

I would think if it still lifted then it is other that the ions. It should just sit on the floor! No?

[Mikado]

Here is a link to a partial video from Bahnson. Unfortunately, it does not have the oil experiment shown. I will look at the complete video and try to do a frame grab.

Should I take this as, submerged or resting on oil. If the oil was a mineral oil, should it react similar to air? If it was submerged in Oil, then where would the Ions come from, the Oil?

The disc, which if memory serves but I could be wrong, looked similar to the Adamski saucer. It was submerged in a glass column that was filled with oil. What the type oil was I will assume, but perhaps wrongly, that it was a dielectric PCB based as used in capacitors and transformers of that era. Yes, the ions would come from the oil but what is visible would be the currents produced which would be visible. That is just one of the aspects of that experiment.

On the vacuum, there is pulling a vacuum, anything under room psi and then pulling till nothing or amost nothing is left at all. One is for putting lids on things the other is for coating optics. To get a 100% vacuum is very difficult. I don't know if it can be done or not.

To add to your second sentence - or it could be pulling the atmosphere out of an A/C system or pulling the vacuum out of a kiln that silicon ingots are being produced in for the semiconductor field or a host of other things - truly the either/or does not apply to this.

Pulling a 100% vacuum is difficult and is usually done with a screw type pump to allow heating under vacuum so that outgassing can occur. When a certain point is reached a cryopump is then used or a sorbtion pump. It may take a goodly amount of hours if not days depending upon the size of the chamber but when finished, they will measure the vacuum, not by inches but, by molecules/cubic foot.

If you know this answer off hand let me know, If not I can go figure it out. "When Ions are produced, from which gas in the air are they comming from?"

Actually, I can't answer that off the top of head. Been too long since Physics class <g>

At this moment, it still looks to me that the Ions are a result and not the reason.

Deuem

And you are entitled to your opinion. Opinions are created in the mind and are usually the seed that will lead to a physical experiment.

But here is a bit to end what appears to be confusion. A lifter is not the saucers that you will see in the video link above. The saucer is NOT a lifter.

Mikado