Charles Hall and The Tall Whites

[astr0144]

Hi A51,

Your reply does surprise me...
I had no idea that you had known him personally...

I can indeed see how he could have connected parts of Bobs story to his...( esp the element and firefight )

I was unaware of his medical / health issues.

Thanks for the explanation..

I forget just how knowledgeable  / informed some of the members are !

Also Pimander... thanks for clarifying about the Cattle Mutilation story.

I was not aware of the actual reasons behind their agendas.

IF it was either a radiation or other effect on cattle that they were taking test samples for from the cattle , (I assume only within certain areas...around the USA) I wonder just how serious things were and how if at all this was an air born or maybe viral or ( something in the cattle;s food chain) that would effect to all living beings including man !
and also what the outcome was or has been since  !



==================================
Indeed there is. I knew Phil personally. I can tell you exactly where he got every piece of information he spouted.

If you notice, everything he says can be found elsewhere before he started doing the lecture circut. That is where he got it.


He lost his fingers while playing around with explosives as a kid.

[biggles]

Why does that not surprise me?
Last time somebody was this wilfully ignorant I started to think AFOSI again?  Its bloody well obvious and I already explained this!  If you don't understand this time you have no chance whatsoever in this field so pay attention...

A predator does not make cuts with surgical precision.  Surgical instruments do - so you cannot blame the mutilations on a predator.  Predators don't arrive in helicopters or Jeeps either.

They also wanted to discredit serious investigations of mutilations by attaching the study of mutilations to the lunatic fringe in the eye of the public so they rolled out the standard aliens BS.  The study is now considered "out there".  The ruse worked.  It also had the dual use of distracting Bennewitz from Kirtland.

We even already know for a fact that disinfo meisters Bill Moore and Rick Doty (also of Serpo) were involved without me detailing every persons involvement further.  Linda Moulton-Howe was taken to Kirtland by Doty and asked to lean in certain directions with her documentary about the mutilations in exchange for some aliens material that never appeared.  It just delayed the documentary and I think almost got the documentary pulled for Linda.

Why don't you ask John Lear or look it up?  This is all on record.

Because you can't raise cattle all over the regions in and around every single test site all over the USA in private for generations.  It would cost billions!  there are ranches already there owned by ranchers so you have to covertly collect tissue from them. 

They needed tissue samples that had lived in and around the sites, and been exposed to whatever (radiation) for generations so cattle are the only higher mammal they could have used.  Cattle breed more regularly than humans, live in numbers at the sites, are easy to work on and are bit less of a serious undertaking than humans.

Well in that case you are either ignorant of the facts or in the wrong field.  That or worse.

If you ignore my points again then I'll explain to the membership exactly what that shows.  I have responded to the points you and Biggles made, in the manner of a reasoned debate.  Either engage with my clear and reasonable points or shut up.  Last time this happened it was that guy who runs the LazyGranch site who was pretending he knew what was in the sky at Area 51 years ago when he wasn't there.  This is such a vivid echo of that conversation - except this time it is on our site and I simply will not have it!


P.S. It is possible that the tissue samples were for studying the spread of something within the cattle population (biological test/leak, fallout or disease?) and not radiation studies.  I suspect perhaps both were looked at to save money.

No I dont think so Pimander, nah.

[Eighthman]

I find the skeptical opinion on Dulce and Phil to be very interesting as I still debate the idea of "good" vs "bad" aliens within my own mind.

The Physics Of Extraterrestrials discusses this controversy and concludes that they are quietly shifting our genes to be less hostile, while sometimes reacting to our tendency towards war.

In regard to animal mutilations, are we saying that humans have highly advanced laser scalpels?  Is there evidence that this mutilation is global or just within the West?

[kenticus]

Hi, all.  I have given Hall's story a fair amount of thought & of all the stories to have come out of the 70s/ 80s, his seems the most intriguing. More on that later.

Regarding the mutilations of the mid 70's & all the hooplah surrounding it, let me give you an idea of the tech available at the time.

In 1970, the CIA was given the task of creating an aircraft with a 1000 mile range, 2 crew & 150 lb. payload as silently as possible.

Not stealth, but sonically as silent as possible.

A Hughes OH6 was chosen, primarily for it's range & existing weight specs. Without boring everyone with details, a 5 bladed variant with everything muffled or cushioned (including the fuel pump bearings!) was flown for Lawrence Houston at Culver City airport at an altitude of 500 ft & 85 knots.

"damn near silent" was his report to Richard Helms.

A version of this story is in the book "spycraft" by Wallace & Melton.

It seems likely that there would have been an ongoing project to covertly measure radiation or NBC residue.

What better way to do it?

Kenticus.

[biggles]

They would do it in a lab, not in a field in South America. 

[kenticus]

Wow, how astute of you to determine that after a successful prototype was built, no production models would be built & fielded.

[biggles]

Wow, how astute of you to determine that after a successful prototype was built, no production models would be built & fielded.

Successful prototypes.............for what do tell. 

Production models built and fielded also for what, please inform us all.

Your not talking about precision lasers are you.

We all know that the government have had lasers a long time before we got them, like the surgeons et al.

But they wouldnt bloody use them in a field in Argentina.  Give me a bloody break.

[astr0144]

I found this information on Phil Schneider...

It does say that he was a EX GOV structural engineer involved in building underground Military bases.... so that was one of his connections to his story.

The article also suggests that his death was not natural or health related..and suggests that he committed suicide...some had suggested that he had been murdered...

He had been on the lecture circuit for 2 years...and had lived in Oregon.
==================

Philip Schneider was an ex-government structural engineer who was involved in building underground military bases around the United States , and to be one of only three people to survive an incident that occurred in 1979 between Grey aliens and U.S. military forces at the Dulce underground base .
For the last two years of his life, Schneider gave lectures about government cover-ups, black budgets, and UFOs. Schneider was never able or willing to prove his allegations (e.g. showing the entrance to Dulce Base). His claims received little mainstream notice, but caused quite a buzz in UFO enthusiast circles.
Schneider was found dead in his apartment on January 17 1996 Some suggest Schneider was murdered .

[link to www.apfn.org]

Al Pratt suspected something was wrong with his friend Philip Schneider. For several days in a row, Al had gone to Phil's apartment, in Willsonville, Oregon, saw his car in the parking lot, but received no answer at the door. Finally, on January 17th, 1996, Al Pratt, along with the manager of the Autumn Park Apartments and a detective from the Clackamas County Sheriff's office entered the apartment. Inside, they found the body of Philip Schneider. Apparently he had been dead for 5 to 7 days. The Clackamas County Coroner's office initially attributed Philip Schneider's death to a stroke. However, in the following days disturbing details about his death began to surface, leading some to believe that Philip Schneider had not died from a stroke, but had in fact been murdered.

After the initial cause of Philip's death was listed as a stroke, Cynthia asked to see the body before it was to be prepared for cremation. She was dissuaded by the funeral director who felt that the body's advanced state of decomposition would be too traumatic. However, she could not shake the feeling that something was wrong. The next day Cynthia was contacted by Detective Randy Harris who said that "something was wrong" - that there were marks on Philip's neck. Philip Schneider's body was removed from the funeral home and autopsied by Dr. Karen Gunson, Medical Examiner for Multnomah County, Oregon.

The autopsy revealed that Philip had in fact died as a result of having a rubber hose wrapped three times, tightly around his neck and tied in a knot. The conclusion from the autopsy was that he had committed suicide. He had wrapped the tubing around his neck, tied it in a knot, blocked the flow of blood to his head, became unconscious and finally died.

[A51Watcher]

It does say that he was a EX GOV structural engineer involved in building underground Military bases.... so that was one of his connections to his story.

Hogwash.

Did they provide any documentation indicating that to be true?


Of course not. 

[kenticus]

Successful prototypes.............for what do tell. 

Production models built and fielded also for what, please inform us all.

Your not talking about precision lasers are you.

We all know that the government have had lasers a long time before we got them, like the surgeons et al.

But they wouldnt bloody use them in a field in Argentina.  Give me a bloody break.

Perhaps I was unclear.

In the very early 70's, the CIA built, tested & approved a helicopter capable of near silent operation.

If the implications of this are not apparent, the recent thread drift regarding mid 70's cattle mutilation should give you a clue.

Further, if you think some third world, banana republic's borders would keep a (nearly) silent platform out, I literally feel sorry for you.

Do you think intelligence services ask permission when conducting operations?

[biggles]

Perhaps I was unclear.

In the very early 70's, the CIA built, tested & approved a helicopter capable of near silent operation.

If the implications of this are not apparent, the recent thread drift regarding mid 70's cattle mutilation should give you a clue.

Further, if you think some third world, banana republic's borders would keep a (nearly) silent platform out, I literally feel sorry for you.

Do you think intelligence services ask permission when conducting operations?

I am not the one that started on the cattle mutilations in this thread, go through it yourself and you will find that to be true.

  I just replied to it.

[biggles]

Perhaps I was unclear.

In the very early 70's, the CIA built, tested & approved a helicopter capable of near silent operation.

If the implications of this are not apparent, the recent thread drift regarding mid 70's cattle mutilation should give you a clue.

Further, if you think some third world, banana republic's borders would keep a (nearly) silent platform out, I literally feel sorry for you.

Do you think intelligence services ask permission when conducting operations?

Mid-70's cattle mutilation - I think you need to update yourself with current history as was posted above in the UFO Hunters video.

Do you really think that cattle mutilation was only in the mid-70s, give us a break.

Oh to have Bill Byrnes on here for an hour or so. 

[ShotInTheDark]

The Ranchers testimony and the sheriff starting at about 25 minutes in is fantastic testimony. We have a rancher who has ranched 77 yrs he claims that the cattle are being lifted and dropped from a some type of craft!!
Sheriff Lou Girodos testimony is fantastic, remember this guys the sheriff with credibility on the line!! Please at least watch this part of the video. The mutilation of cattle is one strange phenomenon. I'm not saying one way or the other who it may be but we must admit something of a high amount of strangeness is happening.

[biggles]

It is an excellent series the History Channel put out.  I really love Bill and the guys. 

They really put together all the information from witness testimony to examination from professionals of debris left behind by craft.

[Pimander]

I am not the one that started on the cattle mutilations in this thread, go through it yourself and you will find that to be true.

  I just replied to it.

It may be a misunderstanding so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but....

Kenticus was NOT complaining about the drift it was a way to link the modified choppers to the mutilation discussion.  Stop deflecting from pertinent remarks by trying to get responses to your "misunderstandings".  I don't need a response from you to this.  If it a misunderstanding then we forget it.  PM me if you are offended by this post.  I will ban you if you post off topic nonsense or troll in ANY WAY on this thread.  Do not respond to this in a post.  If you wish to discuss the matter further then PM me.

MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND THE ABOVE!