Decriminalisation of Drugs and Cannabis

[Pimander]

We have a right to smoke and it should be legal.  However, you need to review more of the evidence.

How do you explain that smokers are far more likely to get lung cancer?

[petrus4]

I say there is not, and that the government used it as a scapegoat to hide the effects the Trinity device caused, spreading hot particles around the planet in 1945.  5-10 years later there was a rise in lung and skin cancers, and They asked what, other than air, do most People put in Their lungs...  Tobacco and sunlight because the explanation.

And there is yet to be, in honest tests with organic tobacco and rodents "smoking" 24/7 for over 50 years now, any link to cancer.  If there had been, that test would be all over the news.

I consider tobacco a vile poison.  If we want to talk about a substance that I am single-mindedly negative towards, it is that one.  The greatest injustice where marijuana criminalisation is concerned in my mind, is not so much that weed is illegal; but that it is illegal while tobacco and alcohol are both legal.  Those two legal substances are among the most harmful in existence, in my observation.

I've read in passing about how the plant was supposedly revered by the Native Americans, but the one thing I've never been able to figure out, is why.  White anthropological accounts describe how sick it made them when they used it.  Supposedly, another use for it was as an offering to spirits; but if I was a God and someone offered me tobacco, they'd get slapped.

[rdunk]

you forgot a couple Amerasu,diesel exaust is highly carcinogenic

Robomont, I would assume that you know diesel exhaust is not even close to being as bad as it once was. "Clean diesels" are now available. I bought one new in 2010, and I received a significant "tax rebate" that year as a result of the purchase, because it was IRS certified as a "clean diesel". (And driving 70mph, it will avg. about 40 mpg on the highway , and about 45 mpg @ 60 mph) - VW Jetta Sport Wagen TDI auto.

Here is a piece of a past article, that gives a little insight to this. It doesn't have a date, but it does have good info. I will provide a link to the full article.

http://www.greencar.com/articles/todays-improved-diesel-engine-technology.php

The Department of Energy estimates that a 30 percent market penetration of light-duty diesel vehicles by 2020 would reduce U.S. net crude oil imports by 350,000 barrels per day. In California alone, gradually increasing the use of currently-available clean diesel technology in cars, pickups, and SUVs to levels seen today in Europe could save the state 110 million gallons of gasoline per year by 2010, and up to 840 million gallons per year by 2030.

Diesel is on the rise in America: The forces holding it back – namely long-held stigmas and emissions concerns – are quickly being overcome by technology and now, of course, cleaner diesel fuel.

A new generation of clean diesel vehicles selling in large numbers opens the door for biodiesel to play a bigger role as well. This clean-burning fuel is derived from domestically produced agricultural products and runs in a diesel engine with little or no modifications, reducing both emissions and energy dependence.

Plus, diesels could factor favorably into the future of the popular hybrid as well. Just imagine the fuel economy that could be achieved by combining the fuel-saving benefits of hybrid-electric technology with an inherently efficient diesel engine. For example, DaimlerChrysler has developed a "mild hybrid" that combines the 3-liter BLUETEC V-6 diesel with a high-torque electric motor. With all this potential, we expect to be hearing a lot more about diesel in the years ahead.

[petrus4]

From here, concerning tobacco:-

---Medicinal Action and Uses---A local irritant; if used as snuff it causes violent sneezing, also a copious secretion of mucous; chewed, it increases the flow of saliva by irritating the mucous membrane of the mouth; injected into the rectum it acts as a cathartic. In large doses it produces nausea, vomiting, sweats and great muscular weakness.

The alkaloid nicotine is a virulent poison producing great disturbance in the digestive and circulatory organs. It innervates the heart, causing palpitation and cardiac irregularities and vascular contraction, and is considered one of the causes of arterial degeneration.

Nicotine is very like coniine and lobeline in its pharmacological action, and the pyridines in the smoke modify very slightly its action.

Tobacco was once used as a relaxant, but is no longer employed except occasionally in chronic asthma. Its active principle is readily absorbed by the skin, and serious, even fatal, poisoning, from a too free application of it to the surface of the skin has resulted.

The smoke acts on the brain, causing nausea, vomiting and drowsiness.

Medicinally it is used as a sedative, diuretic, expectorant, discutient, and sialagogue, and internally only as an emetic, when all other emetics fail. The smoke injected into the rectum or the leaf rolled into a suppository has been beneficial in strangulated hernia, also for obstinate constipation, due to spasm of the bowels, also for retention of urine, spasmodic urethral stricture, hysterical convulsions, worms, and in spasms caused by lead, for croup, and inflammation of the peritoneum, to produce evacuation of the bowels, moderating reaction and dispelling tympanitis, and also in tetanus. To inject the smoke it should be blown into milk and injected, for croup and spasms of the rima glottides it is made into a plaster with Scotch snuff and lard and applied to throat and breast, and has proved very effectual. A cataplasm of the leaves may be used as an ointment for cutaneous diseases. The leaves in combination with the leaves of belladonna or stramonium make an excellent application for obstinate ulcers, painful tremors and spasmodic affections. A wet Tobacco leaf applied to piles is a certain cure. The inspissated juice cures facial neuralgia if rubbed along the tracks of the affected nerve. The quantity of the injection must never exceed a scruple to begin with; half a drachm has been known to produce amaurosis and other eye affections, deafness, etc.

The Tobacco plant was introduced into England by Sir Walter Raleigh and his friends in 1586, and at first met with violent opposition.

Kings prohibited it, Popes pronounced against it in Bulls, and in the East Sultans condemned Tobacco smokers to cruel deaths. Three hundred years later, in 1885, the leaves were official in the British Pharmacopoeia.

Externally nicotine is an antiseptic. It is eliminated partly by the lungs, but chiefly in the urine, the secretion of which it increases. Formerly Tobacco in the form of an enema of the leaves was used to relax muscular spasms, to facilitate the reduction of dislocations.

A pipe smoked after breakfast assists the action of the bowels.

The pituri plant contains an alkaloid, Pitarine, similar to nicotine, and the leaves are used in Australia instead of Tobacco. An infusion of Tobacco is generally used in horticulture as an insecticide.

In cases of nicotine poisoning, the stomach should be quickly emptied, and repeated doses of tannic acid given, the person kept very warm in bed, and stimulants such as caffeine, strychnine, or atropine given, or if there are signs of respiratory failure, oxygen must be given at once.

Like I said, tobacco is a poison with virtually no positive or beneficial medical use.

[Amaterasu]

We have a right to smoke and it should be legal.  However, you need to review more of the evidence.

How do you explain that smokers are far more likely to get lung cancer?

A very large portion of the tumors removed from smokers' lungs have a seed of fiberglass.  Those "good for You" filters are NOT good for You.  Also, many tobaccos are steeped in carcinogenic stuff and dried before being processed into cigs.

They WANT to perpetuate the myth for several reasons.

1.  They don't want to own the responsibility because of the Trinity (and other) nuclear tests
2.  Tobacco reverses the effects of sodium fluoride
3.  They don't want to admit the lie

[Amaterasu]

I've read in passing about how the plant was supposedly revered by the Native Americans, but the one thing I've never been able to figure out, is why.  White anthropological accounts describe how sick it made them when they used it.  Supposedly, another use for it was as an offering to spirits; but if I was a God and someone offered me tobacco, they'd get slapped.

Why?  Because it is a stimulant, a cleanser (yes, pure tobacco is), an mosquito repellant, and other such beneficial things.  You, My friend, are a product of the propaganda.

[Amaterasu]

Medicinally it is used as a sedative, diuretic, expectorant, discutient, and sialagogue, and internally only as an emetic, when all other emetics fail. The smoke injected into the rectum or the leaf rolled into a suppository has been beneficial in strangulated hernia, also for obstinate constipation, due to spasm of the bowels, also for retention of urine, spasmodic urethral stricture, hysterical convulsions, worms, and in spasms caused by lead, for croup, and inflammation of the peritoneum, to produce evacuation of the bowels, moderating reaction and dispelling tympanitis, and also in tetanus. To inject the smoke it should be blown into milk and injected, for croup and spasms of the rima glottides it is made into a plaster with Scotch snuff and lard and applied to throat and breast, and has proved very effectual. A cataplasm of the leaves may be used as an ointment for cutaneous diseases. The leaves in combination with the leaves of belladonna or stramonium make an excellent application for obstinate ulcers, painful tremors and spasmodic affections. A wet Tobacco leaf applied to piles is a certain cure. The inspissated juice cures facial neuralgia if rubbed along the tracks of the affected nerve. The quantity of the injection must never exceed a scruple to begin with; half a drachm has been known to produce amaurosis and other eye affections, deafness, etc.

...

Externally nicotine is an antiseptic. It is eliminated partly by the lungs, but chiefly in the urine, the secretion of which it increases. Formerly Tobacco in the form of an enema of the leaves was used to relax muscular spasms, to facilitate the reduction of dislocations.

A pipe smoked after breakfast assists the action of the bowels.



Like I said, tobacco is a poison with virtually no positive or beneficial medical use.

Wow.  After that list?  You say it has no use?  Petrus, love....

[petrus4]

Wow.  After that list?  You say it has no use?  Petrus, love....

I said virtually.  I'm not saying it doesn't have any use.  What I am saying, however, is that said uses actually are minimal, relatively speaking; and also that there are going to be herbs which will serve the same positive individual roles on the one hand, without having the problems that a toxic alkaloid (nicotine) will cause on the other.

If you were in a situation where you needed something that was going to act as an antibacterial, for instance, and you didn't have anything else, then yes, obviously you'd use tobacco.  The point is that I would consider it a last resort, because there are plenty of other antibacterials, which also are not going to have the same degree of negative side effects.

[robomont]

i grow both.
i grow rustican tobacco.the strongest you can smoke.even pickin it will give a buz.i worm my dog and cats with cigs.it works great for heart lung and intestinal worms.
me and my wife smoke seven cartons of cigs a month.
we also smoke two ounces of weed bud and leaf each week.i built the most reliable bong around.i also invented one of the most reliable pipe screens there is.
45 and still can climb towers and bang my wife.im the healthiest guy in my neighborhood ,most of the kids are lazy and fat.

[Amaterasu]

I said virtually.  I'm not saying it doesn't have any use.  What I am saying, however, is that said uses actually are minimal, relatively speaking; and also that there are going to be herbs which will serve the same positive individual roles on the one hand, without having the problems that a toxic alkaloid (nicotine) will cause on the other.

If you were in a situation where you needed something that was going to act as an antibacterial, for instance, and you didn't have anything else, then yes, obviously you'd use tobacco.  The point is that I would consider it a last resort, because there are plenty of other antibacterials, which also are not going to have the same degree of negative side effects.

In today's world, I suppose neosporin may be an option...but it's made of petroproducts and may be a worse choice...

In ancient times, such natural assistance was revered. 

And to be fair...  EVERYTHING is poison in large enough amounts.  There's plenty We use that too much will kill.  Aspirin comes to mind first.  Tea tree oil has a narrow margin between efficacious and deadly...

Really, just because something has a toxicity level is no reason to deem it useless, should be outlawed, etc...

[Amaterasu]

i grow both.
i grow rustican tobacco.the strongest you can smoke.even pickin it will give a buz.i worm my dog and cats with cigs.it works great for heart lung and intestinal worms.
me and my wife smoke seven cartons of cigs a month.
we also smoke two ounces of weed bud and leaf each week.i built the most reliable bong around.i also invented one of the most reliable pipe screens there is.
45 and still can climb towers and bang my wife.im the healthiest guy in my neighborhood ,most of the kids are lazy and fat.

Would love to try both Your products.  [smile]

[petrus4]

i grow rustican tobacco.the strongest you can smoke.even pickin it will give a buz.i worm my dog and cats with cigs.it works great for heart lung and intestinal worms.

Yes, it said it works well as a worming agent; also as an insecticide.  One thing nicotine is apparently very good for, is killing things.

we also smoke two ounces of weed bud and leaf each week.i built the most reliable bong around.i also invented one of the most reliable pipe screens there is.

I smoked marijuana in Nimbin, around three times a week.  I also enjoy weed here if I can get it.  Weed for me is fine.  It doesn't cause me to bring up mucus, or wake up in the middle of the night with paranoia and the shakes.  Cigarettes did that.

The mix I smoked in Nimbin was with mugwort and mullein, ideally.  Mugwort had an extra high, but didn't seem to hurt me at all, otherwise.  Mullein is also an expectorant; I'd smoke that to make sure I didn't get blocked up, and to bring up anything I did need to, although generally with weed I didn't cough up grey slime and mucus like I did with tobacco.

45 and still can climb towers and bang my wife.im the healthiest guy in my neighborhood ,most of the kids are lazy and fat.

I hope sex isn't considered unusual at 45.  If it is, then given how long I've been celibate already, there is potentially going to be a problem.

[petrus4]

Really, just because something has a toxicity level is no reason to deem it useless, should be outlawed, etc...

I don't think it should be outlawed.  I'm not an advocate of criminalisation for really anything.  I'm just saying I don't like it much myself.

[robomont]

i didnt know mullien was smokable.i got twenty plants of it eight foot tall.i let it flower for the bees.i just let it grow wild in my garden .

[Amaterasu]

I don't think it should be outlawed.  I'm not an advocate of criminalisation for really anything.  I'm just saying I don't like it much myself.

Sounded a bit more vehement...  [smile]  Not a problem if You don't want to use it.