Decriminalisation of Drugs and Cannabis

[petrus4]

Yes, many people cope with life better using artificial means to escape reality. For me, moderation was elusive...

For me, smoking marijuana is like eating food.  If I haven't had any for a while, I will have a hunger for it, but then after I've had some, (usually a very small amount; I'm a cheap shout) I feel satisfied and simply do not want any more.  I do not smoke it as a means of escape.  Coca cola is my real crutch/vice substance; it is the one thing that I am truly, uncontrollably physically addicted to.

This is why I'm probably not the best advocate for weed, truth be told; because even when there is lots of it around me, I simply do not want to smoke it all the time.  In Nimbin in the end, I was smoking two joints per session, with three sessions per week.  Yes I enjoy it, but I also enjoy cookie dough ice cream.  I don't smoke weed all the time, however, for roughly the same reason why I don't constantly eat cookie dough ice cream.  It would just make me sick.

[Primus58]

And You misread My intent there just a bit, didn't You?

Perhaps, I read the sentence and took it literally since there was no allusion to an alternative intent!


Well, I'm here to tell You that spending a stressful day and coming home to a bowl is NOT going to be solved by " facing issues head on with counseling and therapy."  The treatment of cannabis is just fine.  And by percentages, that is how most People use it who are treating stress.  Like some do with martinis.  (Or would You say THOSE People need to " fac[e] issues head on with counseling and therapy?"

Bad sentence, therapy won't solve coming home to a bowl. Why so defensive? Yes, drinking everyday can be a problem, not for everyone. Counseling is wonderful for working out problems, too many people are afraid to reach out for help due to a caveman stigma..  so they escape into wonderland with drugs and alcohol... which tears apart many families, and kills thousands on the highways.

See above on SWIM.  I never said it helped inflammation.  I said it helped THE PAIN.  And SWIM has a rheumatological condition, and cannabis helps TREMENDOUSLY.  Just because You did not find relief does NOT follow that no One else does.  Again, some People gain relief from aspirin; Others are allergic.  It is numbers.  Far more People DO find pain relief than don't.

Okay, I get you on this, misunderstood before. Once again, I never stated my experience speaks for all!

No, that is a specious argument. I know of many people who hyper-focus because of pot, and it makes the pain worse, again, the aspirin analogy is way out of context; I was not talking about allergies, but, some people are allergic to pot, the red eyes speak wonders!

Its to express that We are all different.  Because You can find People for which it is not true does NOT follow that it's not true for everyOne.  In fact, by all the tests, literature, testimonies, studies, and so on, those People You are describing are in a very small minority.

Wow, I take it you had a bowl before this thread... LOL! ONCE AGAIN, I NEVER STATED IT WAS TRUE FOR EVERYONE... please read more carefully! I call B.S. on this, you show me the literature, tests and studies! I can show you non-government studies that show adverse effects of pot, and in different books about ADD. Look, I said it once I am for pot, but your recalcitrant attitude betrays a mantra put out by pot heads sans TRUE EVIDENCE! Show me your numbers, then, if you are right, I will humbly concede!

It sounds to Me like You may be believing propaganda...  And where did I say "dropouts?"  These are kids who are in school and getting reasonable to excellent grades.  And yes, some kids drop out.  Some are not successful.  Some choose alcohol.  Some choose other things.  That does NOT follow that all kids are like that.  Numbers, again.

No, far from it! I am speaking from experience and from extensive study. I used the term dropouts as it is true many dropouts do so because of drug problems.

What is this "escape?"  SWIM has not escaped.  SWIM has found that it relaxes SWIM enough to deal with issues.  AND SWIM DOES use it as medicine.

What is this escape?... LOL, SWIMMA PLEASE!

So sorry to hear.  SWIM too knows the lives of MANY who use cannabis.  Only two sound like You.

So you only know three people... LOL.. sounds to me like you're disingenuous.

Was that time wasted, then?

No, and did I say that everyone who smokes pot is wasting time? No I didn't!

Only because it's ILLEGAL.  I will not support an UNETHICAL "law."  Especially where MY happiness and comfort are at odds with it.  And a large percentage of cannabis is grown right here by that nice old farmer down the road...it turns out.

What's truly sad is the Federal government overstepping the State's rights and propositions that were voted in; and yes, the fact that it's illegal, and, that people are in jail or prison for a simple herb is ludicrous.

Finally, this quote of yours is just flat out ignorant:
And virtually all paranoia and anxiety is caused by the illegality, NOT the drug itself.  And, in fact, by far the largest percentage of People with depression and who use cannabis, TREAT depression effectively.

This is absolute bullcrap! Pot for many enhances paranoia, not because of the laws, rather because of a chemical interference in the brain! For MANY people, pot intensifies depression! This is not my opinion, this is fact! It is clear you are not well read on this; or if you are, it is you reading the propaganda from one side!

[petrus4]

I'm not speaking of an allergic response either.  I'm comparing percentages.  And virtually all paranoia and anxiety is caused by the illegality, NOT the drug itself.  And, in fact, by far the largest percentage of People with depression and who use cannabis, TREAT depression effectively.

OK; this requires some clarification.  What I am about to tell you, Amy, comes from first hand, direct experience; not anything I've read etc.

Marijuana at sufficient dosages, and of sufficient quality, can act as a psychedelic.  It is not as strong, but it can behave similarly to mushrooms or acid; I've had all three.  The thing to understand about psychedelics is, that first and foremost, they are amplifiers.

If I'm happy or in a positive mood when I start smoking, weed is going to increase that.  If I'm angry, then while it might take the edge off my actual aggression, it's probably still going to leave me feeling paranoid, twitchy, and maybe even a little fearful. 

This, more than anything else, is the single main reason why the one cardinal rule of LSD use, is that you must never, ever, ever, EVER be afraid of the drug.  Fear, in and of itself, is the most dangerous thing you can experience while on psychedelics; because they will all amplify that fear, and acid can do so to such an extent, where it is extremely easy to experience a psychotic break.

[Primus58]

OK; this requires some clarification.  What I am about to tell you, Amy, comes from first hand, direct experience; not anything I've read etc.

Marijuana at sufficient dosages, and of sufficient quality, can act as a psychedelic.  It is not as strong, but it can behave similarly to mushrooms or acid; I've had all three.  The thing to understand about psychedelics is, that first and foremost, they are amplifiers.

If I'm happy or in a positive mood when I start smoking, weed is going to increase that.  If I'm angry, then while it might take the edge off my actual aggression, it's probably still going to leave me feeling paranoid, twitchy, and maybe even a little fearful. 

This, more than anything else, is the single main reason why the one cardinal rule of LSD use, is that you must never, ever, ever, EVER be afraid of the drug.  Fear, in and of itself, is the most dangerous thing you can experience while on psychedelics; because they will all amplify that fear, and acid can do so to such an extent, where it is extremely easy to experience a psychotic break.

Thank you Petrus4, now this response was far more intelligent, and way less abrasive than mine. Amy, I apologize for any hostility... for some reason I took this personal... LOL, maybe I need a bowl!

A whole other topic is the work of Alexander Shulgin, especially his latest 2ci... I had some friends that went to Canada to get it. It was a clear liquid. They mixed it with Vodka. It was supposed to be the cleanest, most cerebral hallucinogen by far... with absolute dimensional properties. I stayed away from it, because I know myself, if I went on a downward mood swing, look out, I would have to go hide... LOL! What Petrus says is absolutely on the mark.

Again, sorry Amy for being contentious.

Woody

[Amaterasu]

Show me the stats on that! Experts on ADD have noted a serious problem with ADD and pot, non-government studies add! For most it's true. But, and here it's my turn to sigh, I never said it doesn't help others! you are putting words in my mouth!

I am not anti-pot. But you have to be honest about some of the detrimental effects of pot. It does cause damage and ruin lives. The help it serves is only a temporary psychological crutch. The true benefit comes from raw cannabis, and I mean healing cancer and other maladies.

http://www.kortexplores.com/node/133
http://davidbearmanmd.com/docs/ADHD1.pdf (Discusses ADD too)

http://www.medicalmarijuanastrains.com/tag/good-for-add/ (Just for the lovely pic - but it's listed in "Good Strain For:")
http://www.onlinepot.org/medical/add&mmj.htm (Note references at end)

[petrus4]

Personally, I am not going to try and insist that anyone have a positive attitude towards marijuana.  If you do not like it, do not smoke it.  It's fairly simple.  I pride myself on being probably the only individual I know of who is sympathetic towards marijuana, who does not try and enforce their own preference for the drug, with most of the people around me.  Stoners are generally single-mindedly evangelical in my experience, and I consider that an equal and opposite form of tyranny, to those who insist on criminalisation.

The only thing that I would request, is for those who are unsympathetic towards marijuana as a substance, to at least consider whether criminalisation itself, has a net positive or negative result for society as a whole; and also, to possibly ask themselves whether or not they truly believe that the law, in contemporary terms, really exists primarily for their genuine benefit.

Don't smoke it if you don't want to; but please, let those of us who do want to, do so in peace.

[Amaterasu]

(Tags were such that it all was quoted and I don't have the energy to copy, paste and fix)

Why "defensive..."  Because You said that treating stress just means One need to face up to things and get treatment.  I'm not defensive, per se.  I'm more WTF.

A martini after work is not a big health issue.  Three or four, yeah.

I know 50ish People who use; two of which are lazy bums.  Please don't tell Me how many I know.  It's rude.

Treating stress is merely a matter of relaxing One.

And hey, if You want to believe the paranoia is "chemical" induced, fine by Me.  SWIM was paranoid the first couple of times - because it was illegal.  Many Other users I have talked to said the same thing.  [shrug] The paranoia went away.

[Primus58]

http://www.medicalmarijuanastrains.com/tag/good-for-add/ (Just for the lovely pic - but it's listed in "Good Strain For:")

Ok, you blew me out of the water with this, I humbly eat they words... LOL! The ADD books I was referring to were written in the 90's. Indeed those are nice pictures... and some of those names are funny! A dear friend of mine, the Late Rasta Jeff, made a ginger bread cake with way too much of this special strain (Northern LightsxTNT), and we were on a canoe trip going down the Guadalupe. Well, it was so strong, everyone stopped talking, and one person had to get out and walk on the river bank, LOL, I think they started crying. It was too radical, it was extremely intense. unfortunately, Rasta Jeff cut his dredlocks off and joined a cult called Heaven's Gate; we tried to talk him out of it. Nope, he gave away everything and left. Then one day my ex-wife saw him on TV and heard about the suicides.. man, sad, and very stupid! One time, the Reggae band One Destiny was playing at the Sunken gardens theater, Rasta Jeff gave them some Gingerbread cake before they played... oh my! That was interesting.

[Amaterasu]

OK; this requires some clarification.  What I am about to tell you, Amy, comes from first hand, direct experience; not anything I've read etc.

Marijuana at sufficient dosages, and of sufficient quality, can act as a psychedelic.  It is not as strong, but it can behave similarly to mushrooms or acid; I've had all three.  The thing to understand about psychedelics is, that first and foremost, they are amplifiers.

Wow.  SWIM has had a LOT of STRONG stuff and WISHES it had had that effect.  Different effects for different People, I suppose.

If I'm happy or in a positive mood when I start smoking, weed is going to increase that.  If I'm angry, then while it might take the edge off my actual aggression, it's probably still going to leave me feeling paranoid, twitchy, and maybe even a little fearful. 

Glad SWIM does not have those issues.  It ALWAYS makes SWIM feel better - but then it's easy to feel better when the pain stops.

This, more than anything else, is the single main reason why the one cardinal rule of LSD use, is that you must never, ever, ever, EVER be afraid of the drug.  Fear, in and of itself, is the most dangerous thing you can experience while on psychedelics; because they will all amplify that fear, and acid can do so to such an extent, where it is extremely easy to experience a psychotic break.

SWIM has had experience with LSD and shrooms...  I know this is true of LSD, for sure.  Never had a situation when SWIM didn't do much better, no matter the initial state of mind, with cannabis.  (Except the first couple of times when SWIM was paranoid...)

[Primus58]

Why "defensive..."  Because You said that treating stress just means One need to face up to things and get treatment.  I'm not defensive, per se.  I'm more WTF.

For some... not everyone. Do you deny that some people cover problems with drug use! operative word, some!

A martini after work is not a big health issue.  Three or four, yeah.

I agree.

Please don't tell Me how many I know.  It's rude.

Now it's my turn for WTF??? I was kidding, lighten up!

Treating stress is merely a matter of relaxing One.

'Sometimes' stress is a result of underlying issues, where relaxing through drug use only treats the symptom, not the root cause, like an event that manifests PTSD or other trauma. In that case it is far better to seek professional help than to smoke it away! There is, even in this modern time, a stigma relating to mental health work, counseling and psychiatry. If more people were honest with themselves and had courage, they could treat the core of their problems; combine that with love, adn it will far surpass drug use... but, I know how nice couple of tokes can be, like today when playing disc golf. I very rarely smoke.

And hey, if You want to believe the paranoia is "chemical" induced, fine by Me.  SWIM was paranoid the first couple of times - because it was illegal.  Many Other users I have talked to said the same thing.  [shrug] The paranoia went away.

It's science, not my opinion.

[Primus58]

Don't smoke it if you don't want to; but please, let those of us who do want to, do so in peace.

Are you talking to me?

I hope not, I am pro-marijuana, yet, also truthful about the harm it can cause! It has hurt many families, and this is what Amy fails to acknowledge.

I don't care what other people do, not my business... as long as they don't interfere with my rights!

[petrus4]

Wow.  SWIM has had a LOT of STRONG stuff and WISHES it had had that effect.  Different effects for different People, I suppose.

Who's SWIM?  Also, come to Nimbin, Amy, and you'll get semi-psychedelic weed.  A heavily Indica based strain will do it.  To quote the somewhat Jamaican modelled Trolls from World of Warcraft, "dey got de good stuff, mon."

Nimbin has one particular local strain called Mullumbimby Madness.  A pipe and going to level (in Silva Mind Control terms) once had me talking with master Raphael, although only in passing, admittedly.  Up there I was staying in a caravan, where the bed was less than three feet from the chair; and after smoking two thirds of a pipe of that stuff, if you'd asked me how I'd got from the chair to the bed, I wouldn't have been able to tell you under torture.  Complete amnesia.

[Amaterasu]

Who's SWIM?  Also, come to Nimbin, Amy, and you'll get semi-psychedelic weed.  A heavily Indica based strain will do it.  To quote the somewhat Jamaican modelled Trolls from World of Warcraft, "dey got de good stuff, mon."

Nimbin has one particular local strain called Mullumbimby Madness.  A pipe and going to level (in Silva Mind Control terms) once had me talking with master Raphael, although only in passing, admittedly.  Up there I was staying in a caravan, where the bed was less than three feet from the chair; and after smoking two thirds of a pipe of that stuff, if you'd asked me how I'd got from the chair to the bed, I wouldn't have been able to tell you under torture.  Complete amnesia.

I have had stuff that sounds similar.  [smile]  But never an hallucination.  Nimbin...is in Australia, n'est pas?  A wee bit further than I can manage at the mo'.  But if the book sells well....  [grin]

[petrus4]

It's science, not my opinion.

I'm afraid this does not work, Primus.  Scientists are as subject to bias and other manipulation as anyone else.  The only experiments I believe in the validity of without question, are those which I myself am able to observe.

[Primus58]

I'm afraid this does not work, Primus.  Scientists are as subject to bias and other manipulation as anyone else.  The only experiments I believe in the validity of without question, are those which I myself am able to observe.

That's okay... there are very good scientist that would disagree, and it's not some stupid conspiracy.