My Inescapable Conclusion: The Freemasons are Monsters

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

Holding steady to a secret, is the secret

I sometime's find it weird that people get so bent up about certain secret's when it pertains to matter's of the mind which are free to learn. 

All the secret's to the world are in front of you, me, and him, and her LOL



As someone who has read a myriad of book's regarding how to live life... it's kinda grand and odd that John Lear summed it up so eloquently....

Live your life without hate greed or envy

Don't forget the most important one: with integrity!

[The Seeker]

Sinead, I want you to ponder a few things...

Let's start with the word Occult with simply means hidden...

As Petrus stated, in the realm of the Art Magick, there are two distinct types, being Ritual{Wiccan} and Ceremonial{Sorcery or Wizardry, if you prefer}

Wiccans freely put forth how to use your personal energy and will to make changes in your personal paradigm; most practice white magick and follow the Wiccan Rede: An it harm none, do what thou will...

yes, there are also those who practise Black magick such as voodoo; but everything you do comes back to you, so a wise person does not do anything to anyone else unless it is for their good and well being...

Ceremonial magickians summon and conjecture spirits and beings to do their will; but that is a very dangerous game, for the act of the summoning pisses said spirits/entities off and you cannot make any mistake for they will attack you if you give them the opportunity...

my point is the same as Petrus; there are things that need to be inaccessible to the public at large and for very good reasons...

I also know that knowledge is used by many as power; the church et all is a prime example of this; if you take a good look at practices from the dark ages until roughly the 16th century you will find that the common folk were fed only a small portion of the information that the church elders and leaders were privvy to...

as always, my words, thoughts, and musings are just my personal observations and conclusions that I have come to and in no way shape or form should anyone accept it beyond it being my personal opinion;

you have to find your own answers that work for you and make your own choices...

just try to choose wisely...


seeker

[petrus4]

Ceremonial magickians summon and conjecture spirits and beings to do their will; but that is a very dangerous game, for the act of the summoning pisses said spirits/entities off and you cannot make any mistake for they will attack you if you give them the opportunity...

It actually isn't the summoning itself which upsets spirits; it's ironically the form of containment that you use for them, if you are doing things properly.  I was going to outline said containment, but I really don't think it's a good idea to go into that here; I don't want to encourage anyone to do anything irresponsible.

The bottom line is that the forms of containment used in Western evocation, are considered an insult to spirits, because you are in essence enslaving them temporarily, and you are also making a very strong statement that you do not trust them.  With that said, the only types of spirits I deal with these days either angelic or Godforms; I don't go near demons after that one experience, and I don't recommend anyone else do so either.  The Goetia is ironically probably the safest of the more common grimoires, and given how nasty some of them are, that's saying something.

[The Seeker]

No, Petrus, leave it at that; any curious enough to want more info need to seek it out themselves...

the only point left out to delineate the major difference is wiccans are inside their circle whilst CM'ers are outside...

we have said enough, perhaps too much; meditation is far safer and will lead to the same experiences if practised along the path of the Kaballah...

I will recommend the book Simple Magick which is Kaballah in simple, everyday terms...

seeker

[Sinny]

Thank you Petrus, thank you Seeker, your input is highly fitting for what I have been studying this week.

Of course I can see the benefits of attempting to hide information that could have negative conotations -  in the hands of idiots.

However, the cultivation of knowledge is the cultivation of power... Therefore any time we allow whole groups or societies to cultivate so much knowledge (whilst repressing it unnaturally for others), is also us allowing societies and groups to cultivate power.

I'm still here asking myself... Do I want the Masons to have that power? What are they doing with that power?
Skull and Bones have cultivated knowledge/power.. Is it wise that they have that power? What do they do with that power?

As is highlighted often, with this power they have infiltrated and corrupted our social systems.

Indeed all these 'powerful' groups have aimed to corrupt society as a whole, they have deeply affected our cultures, phyche and view of reality.

I think Petrus described this effect well a page or two back?

Some here say they support this method of secrecy because it allows other groups, let's say the RC, to cultivate and develop their own knowledge/power to use for the forces of .. Good..

But isn't it plain to see that our 'forces of good' aren't winning the war at the moment?

Therefore, something needs to drastically change to alter the playing field...

I refer back to my initial post, as I've gone round in a circle.

How do we prevent this process of abuse from happening?
That takes my mind back to one of Petrus' other threads..

Then again, we probably won't change the course of events.. But it wouldn't be much of a movie unless we played our parts.

Having all this discussion about religion around recently...
The main hook that Christianity has me on is demonology.

I recognise that the forces you two speak of exist.
I'm currently undecided on their nature.

It dawned on me for example Petrus, that even Ra of Law of One fame... Known for his benevolance... Still took a life before he departed this realm. That life was of course Don Elkins... Not many entities could have done that to Don, he was a strong and wise man. I've always wondered if Ra' was an artist of deception.. If they all are.

Anyway, as always, I have more questions than answers..   

[Sinny]

Seeker, if it makes you feel better, the info Petrus provided is already all over the web, even on easily found Wiki pages.

How times change..

[The Seeker]

Seeker, if it makes you feel better, the info Petrus provided is already all over the web, even on easily found Wiki pages.

How times change..

aye Sinny lass, things do change... Tisn't a matter of how it makes me feel; those who will take the risks will do so;  it is a matter of personal choice and free will...

all one can hope for is that these individuals do thorough research and are well informed before they take the first step...

will they choose wisely?



seeker

[Pimander]

Or is it like a Matrix moment?  Will I know this secret when I discover this secret, and know that it is a secret that you an I share?

You will know. And those who know keep silent.

Or do I need to join a society for confimation?

No you don't have to.  Some groups may get you there quicker but some are utterly pointless as they don't understand how to facilitate true initiation.

we have said enough, perhaps too much; meditation is far safer and will lead to the same experiences if practised along the path of the Kaballah...

This is true and good advice.  The "more direct" route I took was extremely traumatic.  Trauma is one of the ways people "spontaneously" initiate or achieve a particular experience.  Soul shatteringly direct methods are so risky I could not recommend anyone try.  If you do then it is going where "angels fear to tread".

Try it if you like but it is worth considering that in some Jewish mystical circles do not start work on Kabbala until they are already 40 years old.  At the age of 40 you have already passed through the 8 year Sun-Venus cycle 5 times.  Only then do they recommend serious work upon The Tree.



There is a good reason the Pentagram has high significance in certain circles.

I was born on a point of the Pentagram with the Galactic central point on my mid-heaven.  If certain semi-secret astrology was true then my early initiation was inevitable.



These are some of the central secrets of initiation.  If you believe in that sort of thing.

[rdunk]

I find this rather amusing.....not meaning to offend anyone! But I find it strange that some of you buy-in to so much non-factual way out of the ordinary stuff, while being completely unable to accept a strongly held fact for many that the God of this Universe is real?? ?? ?? Not only that, it also seems that you have fine-honed the mystical elements of what you believe about this mystical life. Wow! The dichotomy between elements of this discussion and some of our others is significant!! Seems that here there are believers in all kinds of spirits, even scared of their possible actions, and seemingly all about the so called "dark side"! Be careful you say!!

Of course, that is just the sense of matters that I get from reading some of this! ?? ??

[Pimander]

IBut I find it strange that some of you buy-in to so much non-factual way out of the ordinary stuff, while being completely unable to accept a strongly held fact for many that the God of this Universe is real?? ?? ??

Petrus is certainly not an Atheist.  I contend that their may be a God but the thing from the Bible that you worship is no such thing.  If the Universe is God then there is your answer.  I also remember we recently discussed and agreed that you could be an Atheist and still accept the existence of spirits.  Furthermore, if the entities discussed turned out to be a powerful part of the human psyche it would not be surprising.

So where is the dichotomy?

[ArMaP]

There is a good reason the Pentagram has high significance in certain circles.

Because it's the regular polygon most difficult to draw? 

[space otter]

I've been reading this thread off and on and find it kinda represents my own journey of what is and what isn't...
not that I have many conclusions but I do have some observations 
I was reluctant to toss my observations in but why not

only personal observations here folks.. no stones being thrown at anyone

no one has actually ever seen god the good and I have never heard/read that anyone has actually seen the bad demon figures..but a lot of folk who go looking and focus on one or the other find essences of power..and label it good or bad....never realizing that they have called that essence into existence
pets r us story is  just that.. a call into existence of something by explicit means...and he did recognize his part
rdunk on the other hand calls via prayer  and see  the results
BUT  they both get results they were looking for...and they both feel the result is more than they are
many folk are this way...
where is the power in this
obviously it is with the person calling otherwise these essences would be running loose
do any of us recognize our own power?  and then use it to route our lives as we want?
mostly as soon as we see any result we toss our power to the result....HUH !!!   WHY?

are the evils in the world because of folks calling without precautions or true knowledge of what they are calling?
are we doomed by what has been let loose
I can surely see why rdunk is finding humor in this..
belief in half -  the evil part without belief in the god part and then pointing fingers at him for belief in the good part
it's always easier to see the other guy as the dumb one

you guys are all correct but not going far enough .. there is good and there is evil
but it comes at OUR beckoning
we have called it all.. both good and evil
it is we sorry ass humans who have the power and have abdicated it
we toss responsibility to what has been called and then make request from our own creations
we are missing the point

we are the power to change it all  but we hide in fear of the power we have
we recognize certain symbols 
but we think they have the power when they are only tools to be used
we have the power if only we would look deeply at ourselves and accept it
just think about it


stepping off my soap box....

[rose]

What you need to join for is to get the HANDS ON PRACTICE and that is for those who have decided that this path is for them.... 

So the only secrets withheld from non members is the METHOD of attaining the goals of that knowledge   and that requires a lifetime of dedication. 

I generally avoid all Mason=Evil threads because imo,  "read one, read em all"

But this one is a masterpiece of wisdom, calm discussion, and courteous information exchange that actually stretches far beyond the original topic.

I love the word dedication,  Z. 

It sounds so noble. but  it can be a real drag, particularly in the beginning when all we have to go on is blind faith in a chosen path.  The first rosy glow of newness fades with the realization that in order to "get there" we are going to have to develop the mental strength to refuse  to give in to thoughts that knock  us off center. 

That's not nearly as much fun as wallowing in our excesses. And the nature of our runaway minds makes it  seem like we are condemned to a lifetime of cleaning the Augean stables.

For the fifth labor, Eurystheus ordered Hercules to clean up King Augeas' stables. Hercules knew this job would mean getting dirty and smelly, but sometimes even a hero has to do these things. Then Eurystheus made Hercules' task even harder: he had to clean up after the cattle of Augeas in a single day.

Now King Augeas owned more cattle than anyone in Greece. Some say that he was a son of one of the great gods, and others that he was a son of a mortal; whosever son he was, Augeas was very rich, and he had many herds of cows, bulls, goats, sheep and horses.

Every night the cowherds, goatherds and shepherds drove the thousands of animals to the stables.

Hercules went to King Augeas, and without telling anything about Eurystheus, said that he would clean out the stables in one day, if Augeas would give him a tenth of his fine cattle.
Augeas couldn't believe his ears, but promised.

Hercules brought Augeas's son along to watch. First the hero tore a big opening in the wall of the cattle-yard where the stables were. Then he made another opening in the wall on the opposite side of the yard.

Next, he dug wide trenches to two rivers which flowed nearby. He turned the course of the rivers into the yard. The rivers rushed through the stables, flushing them out, and all the mess flowed out the hole in the wall on other side of the yard.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/stables.html

Metaphorically speaking,  we might say that Hercules used  the twin flows of chi to carry away the sludge. We can do that, too, with our mental sludge, though we will have to do it again, tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow. 

you guys are all correct but not going far enough .. there is good and there is evil
but it comes at OUR beckoning
we have called it all.. both good and evil
it is we sorry ass humans who have the power and have abdicated it
we toss responsibility to what has been called and then make request from our own creations
we are missing the point

we are the power to change it all  but we hide in fear of the power we have
we recognize certain symbols
but we think they have the power when they are only tools to be used
we have the power if only we would look deeply at ourselves and accept it
just think about it

Ajo, sister!

It really does get easier, as an "initiate" gets stronger.  Those who have advanced a good way along the path may feel it's okay to slack off on cleaning the sludge once in a while. But let them get too far away, and they are likely to experience a smack or two of instant karma, a firm reminder that there are better ways to direct those powerful thoughts and emotions.

Or so it has been for me, anyway.

rose

[The Seeker]

All the ancient mystery schools had the sign over the entrance that said :Know Thyselves"...

I tend to agree with Otter and Rose, for our thoughts,will, and desires create our reality;

the great "evil" is the programming and indoctrination each receives from birth  that steers us away from realiseing that we are co-creators and have to only accept that it is so...

seeker

[Somamech]

Don't forget the most important one: with integrity!

Sarge!  I must say thank you for pointing out that glaring omission mate