Is everything rigged?

[Littleenki]

Luke, it won't collapse.  The cost of things will drop and drop until eventually the effort to collect the penny for (whatever) is more than the penny's worth, and things will be free.

I like the sound of that, Amy!

Let the neck wringing begin!

Or, cut em off at the pass!LOL!

I think of Walmart, being so proud of how they drop their prices yet not realizing the effect theyre having as the prices drop..also we need to eliminate demand for the real needless products, and center on informing people how they need to buy only what is necessary...and not the useless plastic crap lining the shelves of every store like Walmart.

Can we just live like the old west for a few years now?

Cheers!

[Amaterasu]

I think of Walmart, being so proud of how they drop their prices yet not realizing the effect theyre having as the prices drop..also we need to eliminate demand for the real needless products, and center on informing people how they need to buy only what is necessary...and not the useless plastic crap lining the shelves of every store like Walmart.

Let's take this ship to The Abundance Paradigm.  That demand for crap will drop naturally as things become free and advertising becomes pointless.  Makers of things will begin to build reputation as Their work produces GOOD output, stuff made to last, made useful.  With no money, no One is BUYING anything,

Can we just live like the old west for a few years now?

That's the thing about TAP...  If that's how YOU want to live - You can live that way.  Others, like Me, who want to see an egalitarian technocracy - with robots to do the dishes and clean the commode - can do so too.  None of Us is confined to what someOne ELSE thinks is optimal.  [smile]

[Littleenki]

Right on Amy!
Heres my robot ....


Cheers!

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

I really love your optimisim, Amy, but i can't see it happening without some kind of transition period

Of course, as the amount of 'informed' people grows, so will the 'informing' process.

I'm not going too deep into the morals, political or social issues, i'm going to concentrate on what needs to happen in a real mechanical sense.

So far there are 2 practical ideas that can help this change come about real fast

One is free (or at least in this sense, self-generated) energy.
The other is as you said, durability & simplicity of machines.

I remember posting about the 100-year-product company which makes everything from cars, tv's fridges, you name it.
Each product is guaranteed for 100 years. If, in the unlikely event of a failiure, the machine will be replaced (free of charge, since transport won't cost zip) by the company.
Now, the more access 'the company' has to materials, the cheaper it's products will get, this will spell the end of cheap products with built-in obsolescence. This is the first step towards a resource based economy, once the company has all the resources, it can direct them & the products to where they are needed[/u] using cheap robotic transport.
The 100-year products are of course designed in such a way that all parts can be easily replaced, updated etc.

Stage 3:
Now we've had the time & resources & shared knoweledge, we will be able to tackle the bigger problems like ZPE, antigravity, matter manipulation etc..
Asimov saw all of this, the pitfalls as well as the peaks...his prediction for us in the next 10'000 years may be uncannily accurate

ETA typical of this conundrum is my espresso machine
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2355.msg42487#msg42487

[Pimander]

I really love your optimisim, Amy, but i can't see it happening without some kind of transition period

That is exactly what I have just been trying to say.

First you need awareness and THE MEANS to be energy independent.  But in the transition, to anything resembling an era of abundance for most, you have to be able to engage politically to run things and make the technology and knowledge available to the millions of people currently out of reach.  Awareness is beyond most of the millions of people in Europe, Japan and North America yet.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=604.msg42471#msg42471

[Amaterasu]

I really love your optimisim, Amy, but i can't see it happening without some kind of transition period

The transition period is that period where the the awareness, having reached the tipping point and the tech having surfaced, leads Us to promote and finance retrofits and creation of FE devices.  The cost of things will diminish in this transition.  Somewhere in the middle We will also finance roboticizing all work no One or not enough People want to do.  Doesn't matter how much these things cost, since money will become obsolete through these efforts.

Of course, as the amount of 'informed' people grows, so will the 'informing' process.

Indeed.  And eventually We will reach the tipping point...

I'm not going too deep into the morals, political or social issues, i'm going to concentrate on what needs to happen in a real mechanical sense.

That's where I'm going too.  [smile]  Though I do stress the three Laws...

So far there are 2 practical ideas that can help this change come about real fast

One is free (or at least in this sense, self-generated) energy.
The other is as you said, durability & simplicity of machines.

I remember posting about the 100-year-product company which makes everything from cars, tv's fridges, you name it.
Each product is guaranteed for 100 years. If, in the unlikely event of a failiure, the machine will be replaced (free of charge, since transport won't cost zip) by the company.
Now, the more access 'the company' has to materials, the cheaper it's products will get, this will spell the end of cheap products with built-in obsolescence. This is the first step towards a resource based economy, once the company has all the resources, it can direct them & the products to where they are needed[/u] using cheap robotic transport.
The 100-year products are of course designed in such a way that all parts can be easily replaced, updated etc.

Stage 3:
Now we've had the time & resources & shared knoweledge, we will be able to tackle the bigger problems like ZPE, antigravity, matter manipulation etc..
Asimov saw all of this, the pitfalls as well as the peaks...his prediction for us in the next 10'000 years may be uncannily accurate

ETA typical of this conundrum is my espresso machine
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2355.msg42487#msg42487

I don't see this as necessary in transition.  Once FE is "outed," We can spend money all We want - since money will become moot once all energy costs are removed.