My stance on guns

[rdunk]

"And like I said, more gun control=more gun crime".

Amy, I agree with you, and the others who favor guns here, 100% in that regard. If less guns were to mean less crime, then I guess all U.S. law enforcement should be disarmed, as is the case in much of the UK, and then we should have no crime at all in the U.S.!!!! Yeah right, just as the UK has no crime.     

"'Wiki" -The United Kingdom is made up of four constituent countries: England, Scotland, Wales (which make up Great Britain) and Northern Ireland. In Northern Ireland, all police officers carry firearms. In the rest of the United Kingdom, police officers do not carry firearms, except in special circumstances. This originates from the formation of the Metropolitan Police Service in the 19th century, when police were not armed, partly to counter public fears and objections over armed enforcers as this had been previously seen due to the British Army maintaining order when needed. The arming of police in Great Britain is a perennial topic of debate.

I am going to post something here that I received in the mail yesterday. I believe the comments are relative to all of us in the United States, who are presently faced with a government who actually believes "we should not let a bad problem go to waste"! Our government RIGHT NOW is using a relatively small number of bad people experiences, using guns, to try and make significant changes for more government control of guns.

John F. Kennedy held a dinner in the white House for a group of the brightest minds in the nation at that time. He made this statement: "This is perhaps the assembly of the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in the White House with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."


"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe ." -- Thomas Jefferson

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -- Thomas Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -- Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

[Pimander]

PIM
I dont know where you live but in the US there are so many guns.
If guns are outlawed only the Gov an criminals will have guns.

I don't think they should be outlawed.  They aren't in the UK.

I sympathise with your position and realise that it aint as simple as banning gun ownership.  In fact in outlying areas like Nevada, where you might be a long way from help, of course it makes sense to own a gun.  Farmers in the UK need them partly for that reason.

On the other hand, it is madness for a concentrated population like a big city, to have thousands of guns.  I won't explain myself, as anyone who does not understand why is beyond help.

But, in principle, guns kill, they DO NOT IN MODERN TIMES protect you from government tyranny, DO NOT protect you from terrorists AND DO KILL CHILDREN.

There are less homicides in the UK and there are no armed guards at schools, few cops are armed and most civilians would  hate to have a gun in the home.  Guns kill.

Peace x

[rdunk]

 "Guns kill"

Pure and utter nonsense! There is no gun that I am aware of that by itself "kills". Pi, if you know of any guns that do, then please tells us!

Guns don't, by usual design, shoot, until "somebody" pulls a trigger mechanism, that releases a firing pin, that strikes a cartridge, that makes the gun go boom.

In the same thought as above, cars kill, trucks kill, passenger planes kill, electricity kills, tractors kill, motorcycles kill, baseball bats kill, tire tools kill, all pointed and sharp objects kill, fists kill. bow and arrows kills, doctors kill, and et al. 

And just for the record, there are 4x to 5x as many people killed annually in vehicle accidents, than are killed by gun shots. So, looks like we actually do need to get rid of all of the cars for sure, if we use the thinking of some here.

[petrus4]

Try removing the bastards from office using your democratic systems.  No waiting for abundance that they won't deliver.   No having a gun in the house so assuming you still have freedom.  If you don't trust them then kick them out with your votes.

First of all, I will say that I agree that attempting to combat planes and tanks etc with conventional firearms is likely to be mostly futile.

The problem is, that if people have no means of physical deterrence, then it is ultimately the government which has the last resort.  So while you say that if we don't like the government, we can kick it out with our votes, if we have no other recourse but said votes, then I'm not sure what prevents the government from removing the ability to vote as well, and then just existing on the basis of direct force.

[Pimander]

"Guns kill"

Pure and utter nonsense!

Sorry, bullets kill.

Obviously you need people too, but guns and bullets don't buy themselves.

Anyway, if "the end is nigh," why do you care?  Or are we in Hell now?

[Ellirium113]

First of all, I will say that I agree that attempting to combat planes and tanks etc with conventional firearms is likely to be mostly futile.

The problem is, that if people have no means of physical deterrence, then it is ultimately the government which has the last resort.  So while you say that if we don't like the government, we can kick it out with our votes, if we have no other recourse but said votes, then I'm not sure what prevents the government from removing the ability to vote as well, and then just existing on the basis of direct force.

They control your "recourse" as well. In case you missed it, the US government was hijacked years ago there has not been a legitimate voting process since the inception of the voting machine. Paper ballots hand counted under total public transparency is the only way this process can be deemed fair. The US with all it's armed poulation HAS let it government go rogue and despite all their guns it STILL happened. Have a look at these statistics, they speak volumes.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/guns-us/

[Pimander]

The US with all it's armed poulation HAS let it government go rogue and despite all their guns it STILL happened. Have a look at these statistics, they speak volumes.

Well said.  The same point that I have tried to make repeatedly.  All the guns.  All the homicide that comes with them but still a rogue government.

Still suppression of anything resembling energy independence.

Still an unelected president allowed into and voted back into office.

Still perpetually at war.

Still poverty in the "richest country on the planet" while multi-nationals and bankers pay next to no tax.

Still ripped off by the federal reserve and world bank.

Still ripped off for health care while people die untreated.

Still allow yourselves to be governed by people who can side-step your constitution using executive orders.

Don't worry though.  You have a gun so you are free.

DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH

So what you going to do about it?  Take a pea shooter to a helicopter gun-ship?  Or organise yourselves and remove the bastards from office?

[Amaterasu]

At that point being armed does NOT mean they will leave you alone. It means you are either going to give up your weapon or be killed. Thinking your gun can protect you from a tyrannical government only is logical if your in a cartoon. There definitely needs to be tighter regulation on who should be allowed to have a gun. My guess is that 75% of people are not disciplined enough or emotionally stable enough to be carrying a weapon around. Every single individual with a firearm is a potential psychopath that could snap anytime.

Thinking the pathetic guns They let Us keep in opposition to Their advanced weaponry is only logical if You're a cartoon.  I suspect We're sunk.

[petrus4]

So what you going to do about it?  Take a pea shooter to a helicopter gun-ship?  Or organise yourselves and remove the bastards from office?

Again, if you organise, what is to stop them from using the helicopter gunship against you once you have?  The guns themselves might not; but what will?

[ArMaP]

And like I said, more gun control=more gun crime.  In the "wild west" where everyone was presumed to be armed crime rates were significantly lower than in equivalent (population, industry, economics) eastern towns with gun laws.  SIGNIFICANTLY.

I suppose you have some real data to back that up.

[ArMaP]

If guns are outlawed only the Gov an criminals will have guns.

I can only speak for myself, as usual, but I don't think anybody is talking about banning guns, just changing the rules to make it less easy to get a gun powerful enough to kill dozens in some minutes.

[ArMaP]

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -- Thomas Jefferson

Interesting thing to be said by someone that had slaves. I guess for those there was no Democracy...

Times have changed, things said 200 years ago, related to how society was then, are not really relevant in today's society.

[ArMaP]

And just for the record, there are 4x to 5x as many people killed annually in vehicle accidents, than are killed by gun shots. So, looks like we actually do need to get rid of all of the cars for sure, if we use the thinking of some here.

No, you need to get rid of the people that do not know how to drive or are not responsible enough to handle such a dangerous thing as a car.

[spacemaverick]

Here is my second comment not only regarding guns but also deals with many other things and why America has arrived at the point of reckoning.  I care not who agrees because this is strictly an opinion I agree with and it was said better thatn I can.

http://joemiller.us/2012/11/russias-pravda-declares-communism-won-in-american-with-obama-us-suffering-has-only-begun/

In an extraordinary column last week, Russia's de facto government press arm declared that the era of "Miss American Pie" was over in the U.S. Citing Obama's reelection, Pravda stated that the "Communists have won in America..."

Why? Because the US is "an illiterate society" that continues to buy off on Obama's "lies of less taxes while he raises them." The US educational system is also held responsible, with Pravda stating that it was "conquered by the Communists long ago and history was revised thus paving the way for their Communist presidents."

The above is a quote from an article.

As you might have gathered, Pravda's hit on Obama as a communist isn't a glancing blow. It seems to be the overriding theme of the article:

He is a Communist without question promoting the Communist Manifesto without calling it so. How shrewd he is in America. His cult of personality mesmerizes those who cannot go beyond their ignorance. They will continue to follow him like those fools who still praise Lenin and Stalin in Russia. Obama's fools and Stalin's fools share the same drink of illusion.

Pravda also criticizes the growing American attack on religious freedom, saying that "Christianity in the U.S. is under attack as it was during the early period of the Soviet Union."


The above is also a quote from the same article.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/19-11-2012/122849-obama_soviet_mistake-0/

Once again this is the root of Americas problems in my humble opinion.

[ArMaP]

In an extraordinary column last week, Russia's de facto government press arm declared that the era of "Miss American Pie" was over in the U.S. Citing Obama's reelection, Pravda stated that the "Communists have won in America..."

"Pravda" is not the "de facto government press arm", and that specific "Pravda" is not even the Russian Communist Party "press arm", that would be Gazeta Pravda.

That pravda.ru site is not directly related to Russia's Communist Party, the original Pravda newspaper or the the Russian government.