Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'

[rdunk]

From the news article:

The Turin Shroud is not a medieval forgery, as has long been claimed, but could in fact date from the time of Christ's death, a new book claims.

Experiments conducted by scientists at the University of Padua in northern Italy have dated the shroud to ancient times, a few centuries before and after the life of Christ.

Many Catholics believe that the 14ft-long linen cloth, which bears the imprint of the face and body of a bearded man, was used to bury Christ's body when he was lifted down from the cross after being crucified 2,000 years ago.

The analysis is published in a new book, "Il Mistero della Sindone" or The Mystery of the Shroud, by Giulio Fanti, a professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at Padua University, and Saverio Gaeta, a journalist.

Scientists, including Prof Fanti, used infra-red light and spectroscopy – the measurement of radiation intensity through wavelengths – to analyse fibres from the shroud, which is kept in a special climate-controlled case in Turin.

The tests dated the age of the shroud to between 300 BC and 400AD.

Link to complete article from The Telegraph, dated 28 March 2013:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9958678/Turin-Shroud-is-not-a-medieval-forgery.html

[Pimander]

I did suspect that the bacteria living on the shroud gave a date too late.

Carbon dating is pointless on things that microbes eat because you end up carbon dating the microbes a lot of the time.

[VillageIdiot]

Another problem with the way they've been dating it, the last sample taken was from a patch/repair, so any idiot would have known it wouldn't date accurately. Even me.

I watched that on History or Discovery and wondered how those people got their degrees. 

[zorgon]

From the news article:

...a new book claims.

Uhh huh 

Experiments conducted by scientists at the University of Padua in northern Italy have dated the shroud to ancient times, a few centuries before and after the life of Christ.

So the shroud was dated to a few centuries BEFORE and AFTER the life of Christ?  Seriously?

Many Catholics believe that the 14ft-long linen cloth, which bears the imprint of the face and body of a bearded man, was used to bury Christ's body when he was lifted down from the cross after being crucified 2,000 years ago.

Well of course they believe that... Does the book have verification that they were given the shroud to test?

Scientists, including Prof Fanti, used infra-red light and spectroscopy – the measurement of radiation intensity through wavelengths – to analyse fibres from the shroud, which is kept in a special climate-controlled case in Turin.

Can you show me reports where "infra-red light and spectroscopy" is used as an acceptable dating method?

[ArMaP]

Uhh huh 

So the shroud was dated to a few centuries BEFORE and AFTER the life of Christ?  Seriously?

Well of course they believe that... Does the book have verification that they were given the shroud to test?

Can you show me reports where "infra-red light and spectroscopy" is used as an acceptable dating method?

Don't be such a sceptic, now I don't have anything to say about it. 

[rdunk]

"Can you show me reports where "infra-red light and spectroscopy" is used as an acceptable dating method"?

That really is a question for the scientists here but............here is an excerpt taken from the below link:

Spectroscopic examination is the only method that allows conservators and art historians to precisely identify the materials artists used for their works. This information enables art historians and scholars to understand what artistic materials were available during a certain period in a particular region, and therefore illuminates trade routes and interactions among cultures. Spectroscopy may also help uncover the manufacturing methods used to fabricate artistic materials, providing valuable data about the development of technical skills over time.

Spectroscopy also enables scholars to date objects. Because some materials were available in particular regions and periods, the retrieval of pigments with a well-known date of invention allows art historians to date artifacts post quem. Other pigments may be known to have disappeared from the artists' palette, so their presence permits experts to date artifacts ante quem.


http://www.webexhibits.org/pigments/intro/spectroscopy.html

Yes, it does appear that these techniques are being used for types of "dating". Got any art work you want dated?? 

[ArMaP]

The problem (in this case) with any dating method is that it's possible to fake a shroud with old materials, so, even if the material is as old as Jesus, that doesn't mean that it wasn't made centuries after.

[The Matrix Traveller]

The shroud is nothing more than a "Scam" ... To make the followers BLIND and able to be led
by a bunch of "Primates", propagating "Roman Doctrine"...   

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

I like 'scams', especially this one! I'm a true believer.

[rdunk]

Well..........the cross is empty and the tomb is empty, so for me as a Christian, they are important symbols for what has happened. In that respect, so would be the shroud, if it is real, as this article discusses.

The authenticity of the shroud doesn't really matter, in the reality of the Christian faith. But, the man pictured on the shroud is an absolute representation of Jesus, with all the evidence of all of the various afflictions to his face and body, as is clearly described in the Bible, during the "passion of Christ". 

If the shroud is real...............then it is my thought that the remaining image was likely "burnt in" by the supernatural power, as Jesus was being "raised" from the dead!

Just my thoughts!   

[Pimander]

The problem (in this case) with any dating method is that it's possible to fake a shroud with old materials, so, even if the material is as old as Jesus, that doesn't mean that it wasn't made centuries after.

That's true. 

The spectroscopic methods mentioned depend on comparisons with other old material that it is assumed we have an accurate date for.  What if the materials used for calibration are not accurately dated?  We have a chicken and egg situation if you ask me.

[sky otter]

The authenticity of the shroud doesn't really matter

that pretty much sums it all up nicely...

those of faith..believe

those that don't..question

[burntheships]

Yes, it does appear that these techniques are being used for types of "dating". Got any art work you want dated?? 

rdunk,

You read my mind! I was thinking this same thing..

[rdunk]

rdunk,

You read my mind! I was thinking this same thing..

Or maybe with this equipment, one of zorgon's hairs could be used to determine his real age - - like somewhere between 50 and 150 years ~~~~~! 

[burntheships]

Well, Z would just pull out an old hair,
thats how he would get around it.