Planet X, Gravity B, Orbital Mechanics and Ancient Floods

[Amaterasu]

I can't help thinking about how out of alignment all the temples of the world that point to sun events, true north, etc., would be if some large body came around periodically creating havoc.  Seems to Me they would no longer align, unless all were built since the last passage.

Some give a 3600 year period for "Nibiru" (or whatever We call it) - and I KNOW many of the temples were built before the "last time..."

[Littleenki]

I can't help thinking about how out of alignment all the temples of the world that point to sun events, true north, etc., would be if some large body came around periodically creating havoc.  Seems to Me they would no longer align, unless all were built since the last passage.

Some give a 3600 year period for "Nibiru" (or whatever We call it) - and I KNOW many of the temples were built before the "last time..."

First of all, fantastic thread idea A51, especially when it starts with Velikovsky, who explains these conundrums of celestial events well within a reasonable range for further research.

It seems to me Amy, that the places such as the Trilithon at Baalbek, most of Cusco, and others which are popularly described as antideluvial, would be the ones which were the most "unaligned" in our age...anything else that would indicate these sites are correctly positioned for a pre cataclysmic Earth is mostly wiped clean from the record, buried under thousands of feet of sediment and strata.

But what is puzzling is that the correct alignment of some of the most ancient sites, such as Cuicuilco and Gobekli Tepe show us that the Earth has been in the various positions of these places before.

Wobble,wobble.

Carl Munck did a good job of explaining the alignments of the sites we see to this day....in The Code.....and he also points out how the grids of leylines are much more ancient than in the last three or four world events, such as the multiple passings of Venus, and the near..if not actual...collision of Venus with a so called former planetoid...or the asteroid belt as some may call it.

Someone once wrote long ago..Palles Athene showed Tiamat a thing or two about celestial encounters...and the Gods were defined for a thousand years or more afterwards by these events..

Rdunk, you are correct in describing the magnetic nature of our universe, and the electrical nature of it makes the picture even clearer to those who have eyes to see.

Balls of inductively active magnetic densities orbiting even more magnetic densities......planets orbiting the sun......all one in the same.

When you add friction and resistance then....all He!! breaks loose and electricity takes over on the surface, while magnetism works smoothly and seamlessly to link the various celestial bodies to one another from within!

ArMap, your description of tides instead of tsunamis is probably spot on as well.....as the frequency of a celestial encounter's energy differentials might need to be a bit higher to create such a shaking and tremor filled world of smaller mini-cataclysms. It would come in slow and just keep rising..how ominous! And then recede, to allow the sea bottom to expose itself to the air for the first time in millennia. A true catastrophe for nature, us included!

As for Nibiru, it could be true..or maybe not...with nothing but allegorical and prehistorical notations of it's existence, translated by Sitchin at the disagreement of the mainstream linguists.......I wouldn't count on it returning soon.

Sumerians did have something to see in the sky Im sure, and as Gigas poses, it might not be so much planet, but something very, very different!

Cheers!
Le

[rdunk]

If the Planet X were to come by -  in a "cosmic dance"with the Earth, could the Earth become a "moon" of Planet X"? If so, that would result in a disastrous scenario for our planet, doncha think?

Or, could Earth's Moon be snatched away by Planet X? What would be the after effects of Earth not having a moon, if that happened, besides "no moonlight"? 

[A51Watcher]

How could that be?

If it's another gravitational pull, like the one from the Moon, it would pull everything (specially the water) to the side of the Earth facing it, making what would look like a huge tide, so while the side closest to the planet would be full of water, the opposite side would be left with much less water.
No, it wouldn't, in the same way it was easy to spot what happened in Pompeii.

-If- indeed.

Gravitational tiding might be present, but doesn't that ignore the texts of torrential rain for 40 days and nights?

That might cause a bit of flooding too eh?

My point was that high and low tides such as we see when going agate hunting on the beach or clam hunting as inferred by your tidal references is not what would be seen.

Tides of an unknown amplification factor would look more like flooding to the human eye than just mere high and low tides.

Which is why I used a tsunami analogy to make the point.                         

The written references we have from ancient texts refer to a boat being required to survive the flooding.

Sounds a bit more than high tide to me.                                 

I'm sure that if you dig a little you will find the signs of all the eruptions that happened in the last centuries.

PS: thanks for the photos, I love geology.

Glad you enjoyed the photos even though it appears to have been a waste of time since you reject out of hand the evidence they provide.

Would not a more reasoned approach be to concede that there is volcanic eruption carnage that IS hidden over time as well as that which is not?

And should we also not consider the -local- environ factors -after- the event to see if we should expect degradation to the evidence? (i.e. was there flooding in the area after the event to help wash away the traces or deserts of sand to cover them up?)

Also, adding more volcanic material to an area that already has a volcano and volcanic material spread around, is not going to change the scene much to the human eye.


I would think that weak subduction zones and fault lines would be one of the first places we might expect to see volcanic leakage or eruptions, while dormant volcanoes have a sealed crown that requires pressure to blow it off before eruption occurs.

In any case, all volcanic discussions are speculative since we do not have either ancients texts or dig sites indicating we had such.

The ancient texts only mention flooding, so introduction of earthquakes and volcanic activity into the discussion of ancient texts describing floods only, is a bit of a red herring since it presumes a maximum effect flyby. 

Your speculation that "a change in gravity caused by a planet passing close to Earth" would also cause earthquakes and volcanic eruptions -presumes a flyby close enough to provoke such a strong reaction-.



I would expect the various reactions to all gradually increase in magnitude, but not necessarily all at the same time or in the same order.

My guess is atmospheric disturbances would be seen before any other, as our atmosphere is the most lightweight contender we have in resisting external influences.



If that's all we saw and then it gradually decreased we would count ourselves lucky.

Next up on the list I would expect to see water moving, in the seas as well as torrential rain, then after that even closer perhaps earthquakes and volcanic activity.

Not sure where I would put Magnetic reactions on the list.


Did we get of lucky with only reaching the level of atmospheric and water disturbances before it abated?


As I posted earlier -

If this is indeed the case, the primary point of the op is what can humankind expect next time around.

   

[A51Watcher]

I can't help thinking about how out of alignment all the temples of the world that point to sun events, true north, etc., would be if some large body came around periodically creating havoc.  Seems to Me they would no longer align, unless all were built since the last passage.

Some give a 3600 year period for "Nibiru" (or whatever We call it) - and I KNOW many of the temples were built before the "last time..."

Amy-

If this scenario is indeed the case, why presume a maximum effect flyby?

If you envision one strong enough to influence Earth's orbit, either pulling it out farther or pushing it in closer, it would not effect the alignment of the temples, only the amount of time it took for them to come around into view, because you have now increased or decreased the circumference of the orbit.

(Zorgon contends the earth used to be in a closer orbit,... who knows?)


Here's a visual example -

Start the following video then pause it.

Then pick a favorite constellation in the sky, and put a piece of tape on the screen where it is.

Then press play and watch how many light years we have to travel away from earth before your sighting marker even begins to slightly move.

So changing the circumference of Earth's orbit within the solar system will have no effect on your sighting markers at Temples.

[rdunk]

A51Watcher, I do like the volcano pics you posted, to add thought to this discussion. Wow! Your having been nearby when St. Helens erupted with a bang - must have really brought home to you how really puny the human race is, relative to the natural elements of this Earth.

You know, there are volcanos all over this Earth. I am no "volcanoist", but in thinking about your posting - - we really only have specific reference to a very small percentage of the possible volcanos that exist. And the reason for that being..............71% of the earth is covered by salt water. And, except for those which have managed to poke through the surface of the water over the ages, we likely don't know much about the others still deep under the surface of the water.

I do wonder if there is any possibility = when 2 sizable to large planetary bodies happen to come close (relative) together, is there any chance that internal pressures/temperatures of the masses could increase to the point of body- wide full volcanic type eruptions?? A volcano here, and a volcano there is not so good, but if all volcanic sources on the Earth literally erupted at near the same times - - that would present quit a difficult situation I would think!

To end my volcano bit, here is an interesting vidoe about how Hawaii was made - volcanos of course.


                                                 

[A51Watcher]

First of all, fantastic thread idea A51, especially when it starts with Velikovsky, who explains these conundrums of celestial events well within a reasonable range for further research.

It seems to me Amy, that the places such as the Trilithon at Baalbek, most of Cusco, and others which are popularly described as antideluvial, would be the ones which were the most "unaligned" in our age...anything else that would indicate these sites are correctly positioned for a pre cataclysmic Earth is mostly wiped clean from the record, buried under thousands of feet of sediment and strata.

But what is puzzling is that the correct alignment of some of the most ancient sites, such as Cuicuilco and Gobekli Tepe show us that the Earth has been in the various positions of these places before.

Wobble,wobble.

Carl Munck did a good job of explaining the alignments of the sites we see to this day....in The Code.....and he also points out how the grids of leylines are much more ancient than in the last three or four world events, such as the multiple passings of Venus, and the near..if not actual...collision of Venus with a so called former planetoid...or the asteroid belt as some may call it.

Someone once wrote long ago..Palles Athene showed Tiamat a thing or two about celestial encounters...and the Gods were defined for a thousand years or more afterwards by these events..

Rdunk, you are correct in describing the magnetic nature of our universe, and the electrical nature of it makes the picture even clearer to those who have eyes to see.

Balls of inductively active magnetic densities orbiting even more magnetic densities......planets orbiting the sun......all one in the same.

When you add friction and resistance then....all He!! breaks loose and electricity takes over on the surface, while magnetism works smoothly and seamlessly to link the various celestial bodies to one another from within!

ArMap, your description of tides instead of tsunamis is probably spot on as well.....as the frequency of a celestial encounter's energy differentials might need to be a bit higher to create such a shaking and tremor filled world of smaller mini-cataclysms. It would come in slow and just keep rising..how ominous! And then recede, to allow the sea bottom to expose itself to the air for the first time in millennia. A true catastrophe for nature, us included!

As for Nibiru, it could be true..or maybe not...with nothing but allegorical and prehistorical notations of it's existence, translated by Sitchin at the disagreement of the mainstream linguists.......I wouldn't count on it returning soon.

Sumerians did have something to see in the sky Im sure, and as Gigas poses, it might not be so much planet, but something very, very different!

Cheers!
Le

Great post Le, you brought a lot of food for thought to the table! 

In considering the points, I see nothing to disagree with, and thanks for the tips I and others may not have been aware of.

Re: Magnestism and voltage. Would not Earth's magnestism and accompanying voltage as witnessed in the Aurora Borealis, experience an inductive influx from a flyby with a larger field and voltage if the intruder also has magnetic poles? (As our planets in the solar system do, as measured by our probes?)

What resulting disturbances might we see from THAT? (other than blown fuses!  ) 

Might not this higher magnetic/voltage influx trigger lightning/thunder torrential rains?


As to wobble or pitch - consider what happens when you try to wiggle a gyroscope... it don't like it! 

Put one on the end of a string and try it, it will continue to fight back and wobble wobble.

[A51Watcher]

P.S.

I don't buy the 3,600 year time cycle guess, I think that figure needs to start at around 12 - 14,000 years, based on current misconceptions about the age of The Sphinx.

Also, the Chinese have been keeping records for 6,000 years. You would think some mention of the event would have made the headlines in there somewhere?


And when considering floods, let's not forget undo's research indicating not one huge world- wide flood but but smaller separate ones instead.

Again, not a maximum effect encounter no?

[A51Watcher]

A51Watcher, I do like the volcano pics you posted, to add thought to this discussion. Wow! Your having been nearby when St. Helens erupted with a bang - must have really brought home to you how really puny the human race is, relative to the natural elements of this Earth.

You know, there are volcanos all over this Earth. I am no "volcanoist", but in thinking about your posting - - we really only have specific reference to a very small percentage of the possible volcanos that exist. And the reason for that being..............71% of the earth is covered by salt water. And, except for those which have managed to poke through the surface of the water over the ages, we likely don't know much about the others still deep under the surface of the water.

I do wonder if there is any possibility = when 2 sizable to large planetary bodies happen to come close (relative) together, is there any chance that internal pressures/temperatures of the masses could increase to the point of body- wide full volcanic type eruptions?? A volcano here, and a volcano there is not so good, but if all volcanic sources on the Earth literally erupted at near the same times - - that would present quit a difficult situation I would think!

To end my volcano bit, here is an interesting vidoe about how Hawaii was made - volcanos of course.


                                                 

Indeed it did Rdunk.

It also made me question the wisdom of building a city in between 2 active volcanoes!! LOL 

Nice video. I used to live in Hawaii for a while and understand the formation. A bit like a mountain of toothpaste coming out of a tube! lol

Book em Dan-O! 

[Amaterasu]

Amy-

If this scenario is indeed the case, why presume a maximum effect flyby?

If you envision one strong enough to influence Earth's orbit, either pulling it out farther or pushing it in closer, it would not effect the alignment of the temples, only the amount of time it took for them to come around into view, because you have now increased or decreased the circumference of the orbit.

I cannot imagine such great disturbance in the planet with zero disruption to tilt...  Just sayin'.

[deuem]

If the Earth is moving through space on our orbit at 5,000 mph, what speed do you think this object would be moving at while in the inner system.

I would think that even if it did pass a thousand times thru the inner solar system, what are the chances that we would be any where near it to change anything. A bullet missing a bullet has no time to react. This would need some time IMHO to do any real damage.

If the Earth to the Moon was Gravity Radius 1 and X had a Grav Rad 5 If we were at 6 in distance what would happen. So I would think one must start around distance 6 or less to have real action. In space there is a lot of room. These numbers are insignificant. the odds of getting that close should be very rare. What do you think?

[ArMaP]

My point was that high and low tides such as we see when going agate hunting on the beach or clam hunting as inferred by your tidal references is not what would be seen.

Why?

Tides of an unknown amplification factor would look more like flooding to the human eye than just mere high and low tides.

What about the opposite side of the planet? Where are the legends/traditions of the water disappearing?

Which is why I used a tsunami analogy to make the point.

I think that is a bad analogy.

The written references we have from ancient texts refer to a boat being required to survive the flooding.

Sounds a bit more than high tide to me.

How high the tide is depends on several things, one of them is the force pulling the water, that's why the tides are higher in the new Moon than on the full Moon. A planet close enough to Earth to provoke cataclysms would create a huge tide.

Glad you enjoyed the photos even though it appears to have been a waste of time since you reject out of hand the evidence they provide.

That's because that's not the same situation.

Would not a more reasoned approach be to concede that there is volcanic eruption carnage that IS hidden over time as well as that which is not?

Yes, as that's what happens, but aren't we talking about a supposedly planet-wide event? If we are, the evidences should exist in the whole planet, some hidden, some not.
Where's the evidence that large, planet-wide volcanic cataclysms happened some 3600 (or 5000, or 10000) years ago?

Also, adding more volcanic material to an area that already has a volcano and volcanic material spread around, is not going to change the scene much to the human eye.

Yes, but geologists don't limit themselves to the human eye.

I would think that weak subduction zones and fault lines would be one of the first places we might expect to see volcanic leakage or eruptions, while dormant volcanoes have a sealed crown that requires pressure to blow it off before eruption occurs.

Yes, but wasn't this a supposed global event?

Or was it global for some things and local for some others?

In any case, all volcanic discussions are speculative since we do not have either ancients texts or dig sites indicating we had such.

And should we have them, if there was a planet passing close to Earth? Or wasn't it close enough, but close enough to make rain (why)?

Your speculation that "a change in gravity caused by a planet passing close to Earth" would also cause earthquakes and volcanic eruptions -presumes a flyby close enough to provoke such a strong reaction-.

Yes, that was my understanding of the words used, that the planet passed very close to Earth, close enough to affect it. As far as I know, the thing that can affect most a planet at a distance is gravity.

My guess is atmospheric disturbances would be seen before any other, as our atmosphere is the most lightweight contender we have in resisting external influences.

Is the atmosphere affected by the Moon's gravity? If it is we should have noticed it by now, if it's not, why should it be affected by another planet's gravity?

Next up on the list I would expect to see water moving, in the seas as well as torrential rain, then after that even closer perhaps earthquakes and volcanic activity.

Why the rain?

Not sure where I would put Magnetic reactions on the list.

I don't have any idea.

[ArMaP]

If you envision one strong enough to influence Earth's orbit, either pulling it out farther or pushing it in closer, it would not effect the alignment of the temples, only the amount of time it took for them to come around into view, because you have now increased or decreased the circumference of the orbit.

A possible influence, strong enough to make a change in orbit, would make a change only in eccentricity if the planet creating the influence was on the same plane as the Earth's orbit, if it wasn't then it would make a change (even if small) in the plane of the Earth's orbit.

[ArMaP]

I would think that even if it did pass a thousand times thru the inner solar system, what are the chances that we would be any where near it to change anything. A bullet missing a bullet has no time to react. This would need some time IMHO to do any real damage.

Nice thinking, have some virtual gold.

If the Earth to the Moon was Gravity Radius 1 and X had a Grav Rad 5 If we were at 6 in distance what would happen. So I would think one must start around distance 6 or less to have real action.

It also depends on the mass of the other planet, but yes, distance is what affects most gravity.

In space there is a lot of room. These numbers are insignificant. the odds of getting that close should be very rare. What do you think?

I think that the whole story of that extra planet is just that, a story.

[A51Watcher]