Planet X, Gravity B, Orbital Mechanics and Ancient Floods

[A51Watcher]

Those familiar with Velikovsky's 'Worlds in Collision'




And Sitchin's 'The 12th Planet'




...will be familiar with evidence presented from ancient texts describing a 'war' between the planets occurred when an undiscovered planet beyond Neptune that now  follows a long, elliptical orbit, came tearing through our solar system causing major havoc and continues to do so roughly every 3,600 years.









The carnage created in our solar system to various planets the first time some monster planet came through is pretty evident even today, ancient texts aside.

The carnage inflicted on earth is said to be great floods among other things.



The question then becomes - when this alleged monster returns, how severe can we expect the impact on earth to be this time around?

Will it even come close to earth this time or perhaps pass by farther away?

Or will it perhaps come even closer? 






The bad news is the former is not likely to happen.

The power and precision of Gravity B is pretty evident when viewed over time -





However orbits do -gradually- change over time due to external influences and loss of inertia.

Meaning that the effects should be very similar to the last orbit but probably slightly stronger or weaker than last time.



There is a device that allows us to observe the power and precision of Gravity B first hand, called a Foucault pendulum -





We used to have one of these locally with an ornate pattern in marble similar to the one above.

As they swing they gradually change direction due to the rotation of the earth and knock down dominoes (usually) one by one -





Here is one in action at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry... now imagine it being Planet X and passing through our solar system on subsequent visits     

[The Seeker]

51, I am going to speculate as many others have, that a massive object such as a rogue planet would have to have a very low albedo, since there aren't any reports from the astronomers... unless of course it is coming in at a tangent to the solar plane...

so tell us, what else does grav b research indicate, please.


seeker

[ArMaP]

The carnage created in our solar system to various planets the first time some monster planet came through is pretty evident even today, ancient texts aside.

The carnage inflicted on earth is said to be great floods among other things.

I'm not familiar with those books (besides the titles and author's names), what kind of "carnage" did it inflict?

[rdunk]

Well, maybe the books give some facts, but in discussing planets Earth and X, aren't we thinking about two "universal magnets"? Now, just how do magnets react to one another?? Couldn't we first think about our neighbor magnet, the Moon, and that associated "reaction"? Even with the Moon's piddly gravity, doesn't it "drive the tides" on this Earth? Then what might we expect from another nearby (relative) body with 100 times the gravitational force of the Moon? 1000 times? Even 1000 times Earth's gravity?

Maybe more to great movements of ocean water? Maybe pole shifts, as magnets do move each other around? Can't we consider assuming, that if a very large planetary object got close enough, it could just attract Earth right too itself, as magnets do?

"Catastrophic" just may not be the defining word, for the extreme of what could possibly happen! 

Interesting to think about!

[Gigas]

Good point rdunk.

Our universe may not be as solidly put together as we think. Minor changes seem to upset the delicate balance of reality in the most strange ways.

What if the X or Nibiru is a dark none reflective body that traverses a path not from how the orbital plane of this systems planets travel but from a path above to below the plane. It slips through orbits unseen throwing gravity waves off balance to make the system bodies react in a way the unseen wind does to fire, trees or land mass of grass or even water.

Somethings out there and its not showing itself.

[A51Watcher]

51, I am going to speculate as many others have, that a massive object such as a rogue planet would have to have a very low albedo, since there aren't any reports from the astronomers... unless of course it is coming in at a tangent to the solar plane...

Seeker,

I see some great posts below that attempt to address this issue also.


Coming in at a tangent to the solar plane, as well as being hidden in the Kuiper Belt could well account for the lack of reports from astronomers -




It's speed also may vary during it's orbit, speeding up as it approaches the sun then slowing down after, making it's pass through the belt much slower.


Velikovsky and Sitchin took a stab at taking the shoebox full of ancient puzzle pieces and putting the picture together.

They may not be correct on all accounts and details, but it would appear that the big picture seems to be a rogue planet passing through for the first time like a cue ball breaking for shot in a game of pool.

It was then captured by the sun's gravity B into a long elliptical orbit and then once again passed through in nearly the exact same orbit causing flooding etc.

If this is indeed the case, the primary point of the op is what can humankind expect next time around.


The expected date for this to occur is all speculation up to this point, and is up for grabs.

...so tell us, what else does grav b research indicate, please.

Well as the video in the op demonstrates, I think we can expect it to be pretty darn close to exactly what it was last time around.
   
 


The battles were waged the first time it passed through, and the outcomes determined all the orbits and odd axis tilts we now observe.

I think we can expect to see all these orbits to continue to operate like clockwork for a long time to come, unless further perturbation occurs.

[A51Watcher]

I'm not familiar with those books (besides the titles and author's names),

ArMaP, a quick summary from wiki -


"Notwithstanding Velikovsky's dozen or so publications in medical and psychoanalytic journals in the 1920s and 1930s,[21] the work for which he became well known was developed by him during the early 1940s, whilst living in New York. He summarised his core ideas in an affidavit in November 1942,[22] and in two privately published Scripta Academica pamphlets entitled Theses for the Reconstruction of Ancient History (1945) and Cosmos without Gravitation (1946).[23]

Rather than have his ideas dismissed wholesale because of potential flaws in any one area, Velikovsky then chose to publish them as a series of book volumes, aimed at a lay audience, dealing separately with his proposals on ancient history, and with areas more relevant to the physical sciences. Velikovsky was a passionate Zionist,[24][25] and this did steer the focus of his work, although its scope was considerably more far-reaching than this. The entire body of work could be said to stem from an attempt to solve the following problem: that to Velikovsky there appeared to be insufficient correlation in the written or archaeological records between Biblical history and what was known of the history of the area, in particular, Egypt.[26]

Velikovsky searched for common mention of events within literary records, and in the Ipuwer papyrus he believed he had found a contemporary Egyptian account of the Plagues of Egypt. Moreover, he interpreted both accounts as descriptions of a great natural catastrophe. Velikovsky attempted to investigate the physical cause of these events, and extrapolated backwards and forwards in history from this point, cross-comparing written and mythical records from cultures on every inhabited continent, using them to attempt synchronisms of the historical records, yielding what he believed to be further periodic natural catastrophes that can be global in scale.[citation needed]

He arrived at a body of radical inter-disciplinary ideas, which might be summarised as:[citation needed]
Planet Earth has suffered natural catastrophes on a global scale, both before and during humankind's recorded history.
There is evidence for these catastrophes in the geological record (here Velikovsky was advocating Catastrophist ideas as opposed to the prevailing Uniformitarian notions) and archeological record. The extinction of many species had occurred catastrophically, not by gradual Darwinian means.

The catastrophes that occurred within the memory of humankind are recorded in the myths, legends and written history of all ancient cultures and civilisations. Velikovsky pointed to alleged concordances in the accounts of many cultures, and proposed that they referred to the same real events. For instance, the memory of a flood is recorded in the Hebrew Bible, in the Greek legend of Deucalion, and in the Manu legend of India. Velikovsky put forward the psychoanalytic idea of "Cultural Amnesia" as a mechanism whereby these literal records came to be regarded as mere myths and legends.

The causes of these natural catastrophes were close encounters between the Earth and other bodies within the solar system — not least what are now the planets Saturn, Jupiter, Venus, and Mars, these bodies having moved upon different orbits within human memory.

To explain away the fact that these changes to the configuration of the solar system violate several well-understood laws of physics, Velikovsky invented a role for electromagnetic forces in counteracting gravity and orbital mechanics.

Some of Velikovsky's specific postulated catastrophes included:[citation needed]
A tentative suggestion that Earth had once been a satellite of a "proto-Saturn" body, before its current solar orbit.
That the Deluge (Noah's Flood) had been caused by proto-Saturn's entering a nova state, and ejecting much of its mass into space.
A suggestion that the planet Mercury was involved in the Tower of Babel catastrophe.
Jupiter had been the culprit for the catastrophe that saw the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Periodic close contacts with a "cometary Venus" (which had been ejected from Jupiter) had caused the Exodus events (c. 1500 BCE) and Joshua's subsequent "sun standing still" (Joshua 10:12 and 13) incident.
Periodic close contacts with Mars had caused havoc in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE.

As noted above, Velikovsky had conceived the broad sweep of this material by the early 1940s. However, within his lifetime, whilst he continued to research, expand and lecture upon the details of his ideas, he released only selected portions of his work to the public in book form:[citation needed]

Worlds in Collision (1950) discussed the literary and mythical records of the "Venus" and "Mars" catastrophes
Portions of his Revised Chronology were published as Ages in Chaos (1952), Peoples of the Sea (1977) and Rameses II and His Time (1978) (The related monograph Oedipus and Akhenaten, 1960, posited the thesis that pharaoh Akhenaten was the prototype for the Greek mythic figure Oedipus.)
Earth in Upheaval (1955) dealt with geological evidence for global natural catastrophes.

Velikovsky's ideas on his earlier Saturn/Mercury/Jupiter events were never published, and the available archived manuscripts are much less developed.[citation needed]

Of all the strands of his work, Velikovsky published least on his belief that electromagnetism plays a role in orbital mechanics. Although he appears to have retreated from the propositions in his 1946 monograph Cosmos without Gravitation, no such retreat is apparent in Stargazers and Gravediggers.[27] Cosmos without Gravitation, which Velikovsky placed in university libraries and sent to scientists, is a probable catalyst for the hostile response of astronomers and physicists to his later claims about astronomy.[28] However, other Velikovskian enthusiasts such as Ralph Juergens (dec.), Earl Milton (dec.), Wal Thornhill, and Donald E. Scott have claimed that stars are powered not by internal nuclear fusion, but by galactic-scale electrical discharge currents. Such ideas do not find support in the conventional literature and are rejected as pseudoscience by the scientific community."


---


"According to Sitchin's interpretation of Mesopotamian iconography and symbology, outlined in his 1976 book The 12th Planet and its sequels, there is an undiscovered planet beyond Neptune that follows a long, elliptical orbit, reaching the inner solar system roughly every 3,600 years. This planet is called Nibiru (although Jupiter was the planet associated with the god Marduk in Babylonian cosmology).[5] According to Sitchin, Nibiru (whose name was replaced with MARDUK in original legends by the Babylonian ruler of the same name in an attempt to co-opt the creation for himself, leading to some confusion among readers) collided catastrophically with Tiamat (a goddess in the Babylonian creation myth the Enûma Eliš), which he considers to be another planet once located between Mars and Jupiter. This collision supposedly formed the planet Earth, the asteroid belt, and the comets. Sitchin states that when struck by one of planet Nibiru's moons, Tiamat split in two, and then on a second pass Nibiru itself struck the broken fragments and one half of Tiamat became the asteroid belt. The second half, struck again by one of Nibiru's moons, was pushed into a new orbit and became today's planet Earth."

what kind of "carnage" did it inflict?

Well... if I were an Alien Rancher looking for a nice used solar system with a nice M class planet to breed my livestock, I would want to kick the tires and look for any dents or scratches in the solar system first.

"Now here's one you might like sir, has a little fender damage due to an accident but the M planet is a real beauty!" -




"Holy smokes boy!, what pulverized that planet that used to be in that outer orbit anyways?"

"Oh that's just a collection of rubble left over from the formation of the system called the asteroid belt."

"Don't BS me boy! How many accidents this solar system been in?!"

"Well just that one, and everything's fine now."











"Now most of the orbits look concentric and nice, except that Pluto one, what happened there?"

"That accident, sir."

"Let me see the axial tilt report for the planets."

Sun       - 7.25
Mercury - ~0
Venus   - 177.36

"177!!??...Yikes! Gravitational Perturbation from the accident vehicle I suppose."

"yes sir"

Earth - 23.4
Moon  - 6.68
Mars - 25.19
Jupiter - 3.13
Saturn - 26.73
Uranus - 97.77

"97!!?? Looks like Uranus got in the way too huh?"

"yes sir"

Neptune - 28.32
Pluto - 122.53

"Yes I already saw the Pluto report, now what about retrograde?"

Uranus (19.6 AU), at 14 Earth masses, is the lightest of the outer planets. Uniquely among the planets, it orbits the Sun on its side; its axial tilt is over ninety degrees to the ecliptic.

Because the planet Venus has an axial tilt of 177° its rotation can be considered retrograde, opposite that of most of the other planets.[2][3] The north pole of Venus is "upside down" relative to its orbit. The planet Uranus has a tilt of 97°, hence it rotates "on its side", its north pole being almost in the plane of its orbit.

Triton orbits Neptune in what is known as a retrograde orbit. This means that it orbits Neptune a direction opposite the planet's rotation. It is the only large moon in the Solar System to do this. Astronomers are not quite sure of the reason for this retrograde orbit.

"Well it sure as hell wasn't a giant ping pong paddle smacking it back in the other direction. Are all these orbits stable now?"

"yes sir"

Now what about all these rings around Saturn? Some moons got pulverized as well?"




"yes sir"


"So how many useful years of ranching can I expect before flooding occurs again?"

"You can get a few thousand generations of livestock bred before the next time sir, trust me."

"I would need a substantial price reduction for such a high turnover ranch son."

"Step into my office sir, let me speak to the manager."

[thorfourwinds]

Great thread, A51, as usual.   

[A51Watcher]

Well, maybe the books give some facts, but in discussing planets Earth and X, aren't we thinking about two "universal magnets"? Now, just how do magnets react to one another?? Couldn't we first think about our neighbor magnet, the Moon, and that associated "reaction"? Even with the Moon's piddly gravity, doesn't it "drive the tides" on this Earth? Then what might we expect from another nearby (relative) body with 100 times the gravitational force of the Moon? 1000 times? Even 1000 times Earth's gravity?

'Tides' with 100 times the force created by the moons gravity, or even 1000 as you suggest, thus the reported flooding.

Maybe more to great movements of ocean water? Maybe pole shifts, as magnets do move each other around? Can't we consider assuming, that if a very large planetary object got close enough, it could just attract Earth right too itself, as magnets do?

Indeed pole shifts could be another result during a close encounter as their magnetic fields interact. 


One would also think that the gravitational tug- of- war between the 2 planets would exacerbate Teutonic plate shifting along fault lines resulting in massive frequent earthquakes as well.

"Catastrophic" just may not be the defining word, for the extreme of what could possibly happen! 

Could well be a colossal understatement indeed.

All good points rdunk!

[ArMaP]

Thanks for the detailed, long and entertaining explanation, A51Watcher. 

As for the "inflicted carnage", I was talking about the Earth, because, to me, it looks like a change in gravity caused by a planet passing close to Earth wouldn't happen as a flood, because the Earth's rotation would make it look like a huge tide, having a maximum and a minimum each day.

It would probably also change the Earth's orbit and provoke volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, with all those events happening simultaneously, something for which I have never seen any reference.

[The Seeker]

excellent, 51; I am familiar with the works of Sitchin and Velikovsky, also find it of interest that myths and legends as they are classed detail that our current civilisation is the fifth one, not the first...

the cataclysmic events of such an encounter could explain the tale of the demise of Atlantis, the great deluge as reported from around the world, and of the sun originally rising in the west...

would be nice if we could get the keys to the sport model and go looking for it...


seeker

[A51Watcher]

Thanks for the detailed, long and entertaining explanation, A51Watcher. 

As for the "inflicted carnage", I was talking about the Earth, because, to me, it looks like a change in gravity caused by a planet passing close to Earth wouldn't happen as a flood, because the Earth's rotation would make it look like a huge tide, having a maximum and a minimum each day.

I'm thinking when the minimum is well over the roof of your house you are considering it a flood.

The Tsunami's we saw in the last year would be small by comparison as Rdunk alluded to previously.

It would probably also change the Earth's orbit and provoke volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, with all those events happening simultaneously, something for which I have never seen any reference.

Funny you should mentions volcanoes.

I happen to live next to 2 active volcanoes you may have heard of - Mt. Hood and Mount St. Helens.

We view them each day as a natural part of our skyline.




These days the view looks a little different -




One day 30 years ago we looked up to see this on the skyline -




It spewed boulders and ash for several days in whatever direction the wind was blowing.

Our city was covered and looked like it had just snowed, light grey.


A few months after the eruptions ended and siesmic activity had died down, the BLM was preparing to re- open the area to the public for hiking, etc.

A friend and I ventured up that way a few days ahead of the scheduled re- opening to have a look around.

Grey ash covered everything everywhere and our footsteps were the first to be seen in the ash anywhere.


Besides the mountain being half gone, the devastation surrounding the mountain was pretty amazing -
















Now some 30 years later, I recently returned to the area to see how it was coming along -



















This link provides a 360 view from the mountain as it looks today -

http://www.fullscreen360.com/st-helens


So now today  a mere 30 years later, other than 1/2 the mountain being gone, it is hard to tell anything ever happened here.

So I'm guessing the evidence of volcanic eruptions that happened several thousand years ago would be pretty hard to spot today also.

[A51Watcher]

Somethings out there and its not showing itself.

I've got a sneaking suspicion you are right Gigas.

[A51Watcher]

excellent, 51; I am familiar with the works of Sitchin and Velikovsky, also find it of interest that myths and legends as they are classed detail that our current civilisation is the fifth one, not the first...

the cataclysmic events of such an encounter could explain the tale of the demise of Atlantis, the great deluge as reported from around the world, and of the sun originally rising in the west...

would be nice if we could get the keys to the sport model and go looking for it...


seeker

All good points Seeker.

You and Rdunk are saving me a lot of time explaining and bring up related points I was going to get to.


Nice to know if I forget something you guys will chime in.


Onward Peggy!


 

[ArMaP]

I'm thinking when the minimum is well over the roof of your house you are considering it a flood.

How could that be?

If it's another gravitational pull, like the one from the Moon, it would pull everything (specially the water) to the side of the Earth facing it, making what would look like a huge tide, so while the side closest to the planet would be full of water, the opposite side would be left with much less water.

So I'm guessing the evidence of volcanic eruptions that happened several thousand years ago would be pretty hard to spot today also.

No, it wouldn't, in the same way it was easy to spot what happened in Pompeii.

I'm sure that if you dig a little you will find the signs of all the eruptions that happened in the last centuries.

PS: thanks for the photos, I love geology.