Balancing Baalbek

[zorgon]

The time spent in CUTTING (see, I can shout too) and transporting them is irrelevant to the time it took to build it, or do you count the time spent making the bricks, the cement, the iron bars, etc. when counting the time it takes to build a house?

In the case of a house in modern times it may be irrelevant because the building materials are already prepared anticipating someone building a house and in our world we have established means of transport that can easily move these materials to a site where you can build your house

So what you are saying is that BEFORE they started the 20 year building project, some stone cutters had ALREADY prepared all the material anticipating that some Pharaoh would come along and want to build a huge pyramid

And you are also saying that the logistics existed to transport these huge stones in a timely manner to the job site so they could just place 12 stones per hour, 24 hours a day for 20 years

And yet NO ONE can show me this logistic marvel. There is no painted record showing such logistics. And please don't give me the ropes and rollers version. Even if that did work you could not move 12 stones per hour, 24 hours a day for 20 years The rollers would need constant replacement... not enough trees to go around for such a feat... and the quarries were 500 miles away

You might as well count the time it takes for a tree to grow, so you can cut it down, make some planks and build a dog-house, then you can tell that it took some 20 years to build it.

That is a strawman argument... but yes in the case of the GP since according to archaeologists we have the date it was supposedly COMMISSIONED and the date it was supposedly COMPLETED... in this case you would have to include the cutting and transport time in the logistics of building it within the 20 year time frame

Now they have calculated the number of stones laid per hour. I wonder if ANYONE has calculated the needed manpower considering that humans have limited strength and endurance, need to stop to sleep, eat and take a dump.  T work at that pace for 24 hours a day for 20 years would require an immense labor force and that would require more logistics to feed them and provide housing

[zorgon]

the stones could have been cut with giant hemp ropes covered in resin and coated with crushed quartz.the rope would be on a pully connected to a animals walking in a circle.the longer the run the straighter and smoother the cut.think two hundred ft+ runs on a cut.

COULD HAVE BEEN   They could also have been cut by Dwarves using lasers

Can you show me the quality of rope that they had in Egypt at the time? Can you show me the pictographs that they had such pulleys  using animals to run them? Can you show me detailed accounts in writing describing such methods?  Can you explain to me how crushed quartz will cut through granite (generally harder than quartz)?

Egyptians did not have hemp rope;

The ancient Egyptians were probably the first civilization to develop special tools to make rope. Egyptian rope dates back to 4000 to 3500 B.C. and was generally made of water reed fibres. Other rope in antiquity was made from the fibres of date palms, flax, grass, papyrus, leather, or animal hair.

NOVA tried using men pulling ropes to move a relatively small block on log rollers. They failed. They found two problems... they could not get enough men near the rock and the ropes broke

When they flooded the Aswan Dam they had to move two huge statues. Those statues were made of ONE piece of stone... They used sky crane helicopters with steel cable... the cables snapped. They had to cut the statues into three sections in order to move it with modern equipment

Most of those reports have been buried now  hard to find  Much better to believe they did it with unruly slaves. inferior rope and logs that they didn't have

There does exist ONE only ONE painting of them trying to move a statue on a sled using ropes rollers and men... but that image was so destroyed from the time of the Templars that it is almost impossible to make out what is really happening and they filled in details to suit the official version

the blocks could be pulled by teams of animals on stone bearings lubed with lard or other fats.the track for the bearings would be wood  or stone .

Please work out for me the logistics of moving 12 giant blocks an hour for 24 hours a day fopr 20 years. ow many teams of animals added to the work force would be needed? How many tons of lard from what source. Where are these stone bearings now? Is there even ONE of those left?

if researching.i would look for level path from quarry to build site.maybe same altitude on path using gps?or goolgle earth or such.

The main quarry is about 500 miles away on the other side of the Nile... add that to your logistics

[zorgon]

Here is a drawing of what one such barge would look like to move a giant stone



They would need thousands of these barges to supply stones that could be set at 12 stones per hour, 34 hours a day for 20 years and that is not counting the other two pyramids and structures in the complex

[The Seeker]

All very good points, Z; my humble opinion is that all the bull poop from the egyptology field is just that; poop...

the pyramids were existent long before the first pharoah farted in his diaper...

just sayin...


seeker

[robomont]

there was a pbs special on round stones as bearings.thats where i got the idea.
i thought hemp or hemp seeds was found in a pharoh tomb.
in the cowboy days in usa there was a horse per man on average.why couldnt there be a ox or camel per person back then.
maybe egypt had a giant immigration influx due to drought .these folks were employed.ten guys per stone being moved by ox teams on a stone track.track takin up at end of job to be used for other things.kinda pulling up track behind as moving forward.maybe it was the limestone that covered the pyramid but was cut and finished at site location.
just throwing out theories.if hemp wasnt available then maybe wet silk.lol.

[zorgon]

What if...

The great pyramid was built 5,000 plus years BEFORE the Egyptians

Maybe that is why there are no pictures of how they were built

Maybe that is why the GP was huge and perfect with no prototypes leading up to it and the ones after got progressively worse... the exact opposite of what we find in normal learn and build process

Did Aliens build them? I am more inclined to go with a previous civilization that left these big structure all over the world long before the Egyptian. long before that Aztecs, Mayans and Incas, long before the Chinese because even the Tibetans have memories of ancient vast empires BEFORE the Bonn

but hey what do I know?

[zorgon]

the pyramids were existent long before the first pharoah farted in his diaper...

Get me a copy of the Inventory Stella that Zawi Hawass wouldn't let anyone examine... the one that was from Khufu, where he states that the Spinx was ancient when he came upon it and he only had crews repair it

The Sphinx, Egypt.


The 'Inventory stella' - Found at Ghiza by Auguste Mariette in the 1850's, in the ruins of the Temple of Isis clearly states that Khufu restored the Sphinx. This stone provides some of the strongest evidence that the Sphinx was constructed before Khufu and not by him. It says:

Long live The King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Khufu, given life

He found the house of Isis, Mistress of the Pyramid, by the side of the hollow of Hwran (The Sphinx)

and he built his pyramid beside the temple of this goddess and he built a pyramid for the King's daughter Henutsen beside this temple.

The place of Hwran Horemakhet is on the South side of the House of Isis, Mistress of the pyramid

He restored the statue, all covered in painting, of the guardian of the atmosphere, who guides the winds with his gaze.

He replaced the back part of the Nemes head-dress, which was missing with gilded stone

The figure of this god, cut in stone, is solid and will last to eternity, keeping its face looking always to the East '(10).

...Which implies that the Sphinx (and a temple to Isis), were extant before Khufu...

While it is believed by traditional Egyptologists that this stella was carved in the 26th dynasty (664-524 BC), the reason why the statement that Khufu restored it is ignored by modern Egyptologists is a mystery, as the other information on it is regarded by the same people as historical fact.

The reason is obvious to me

Selective research  accept ONLY the parts that suppprt your version, ignore the rest as fiction

[zorgon]

actually, if i'm not mistaken, z thinks the stones were lifted with sound

Yeah its called Acoustic Levitation   The Tibetans are good at it (or were)

Maybe they used sound to cut slabs and drill holes too...

We did a thread on all that both at ATS and here

PROJECT ISIS

[starwarp2000]

Yeah its called Acoustic Levitation   The Tibetans are good at it (or were)

Maybe they used sound to cut slabs and drill holes too...

We did a thread on all that both at ATS and here

PROJECT ISIS

Remember it well! 
I did a complete analysis of the Drums, and small and large trumpets they used to levitate stones. The secret ingredient to make it all work, that I have never seen anybody else on the Internet (Or elsewhere) publish, well I'm keeping that to myself. 

[ArMaP]

But you fall into the same format used by all skeptics You explain only ONE point with a possible solution and do not look at the overall logistic

I look at one point at a time. If I can get a result for each point then I try to connect them, if I do not then I try to find new solutions for each, testing each new solution to see if, connected with the others, they appear to show a full solution.

That's the problem solving methodology I have used all my life, and it has worked most of the time.

[ArMaP]

So what you are saying is that BEFORE they started the 20 year building project, some stone cutters had ALREADY prepared all the material anticipating that some Pharaoh would come along and want to build a huge pyramid

No.

Was the great pyramid the only thing built at that time? They didn't build anything just before it? If they had a culture of making stone statues and buildings, why would they prepare the stones only at the moment they need them? Isn't it possible that they already had some of the stones needed for the building process to start?

Thinking about that, what were the first stones to be put on the pyramid? The larger ones?

And you are also saying that the logistics existed to transport these huge stones in a timely manner to the job site so they could just place 12 stones per hour, 24 hours a day for 20 years

No.

That is a strawman argument... but yes in the case of the GP since according to archaeologists we have the date it was supposedly COMMISSIONED and the date it was supposedly COMPLETED... in this case you would have to include the cutting and transport time in the logistics of building it within the 20 year time frame

What do you mean by "commissioned"? (and please don't shout, I have a headache )

Now they have calculated the number of stones laid per hour.

And you accept the calculation.

I wonder if ANYONE has calculated the needed manpower considering that humans have limited strength and endurance, need to stop to sleep, eat and take a dump.  T work at that pace for 24 hours a day for 20 years would require an immense labor force and that would require more logistics to feed them and provide housing

I think I saw those calculations somewhere, some months ago. I will look for them.

[ArMaP]

When they flooded the Aswan Dam they had to move two huge statues. Those statues were made of ONE piece of stone... They used sky crane helicopters with steel cable... the cables snapped. They had to cut the statues into three sections in order to move it with modern equipment

Are you talking about the Abu Simbel temples?

If you are, the bigger temple has four huge statues that were carved in the rock, so moving them without cutting them was impossible.

[ArMaP]

Here is a drawing of what one such barge would look like to move a giant stone

That barge could only move one stone?

[ArMaP]

there was a pbs special on round stones as bearings.thats where i got the idea.

That's the method they used to move the Thunder Stone, although they used bronze spheres and rails to make it easier, although far from easy.

[ArMaP]

Yeah its called Acoustic Levitation   The Tibetans are good at it (or were)

Is that a proved method or is it as proved as the dwarfs with lasers?