The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis: Pure misdirection?

[Sinny]

With respect, Pimander, you and I have had some divergence of opinion on this topic before.  Specifically, while I definitely agree that some channelled material is the product of covert operations, that does not necessarily mean that all of it is; and personally, I am not prepared to generalise to that extent.

An additional reason why I am not prepared to make that generalisation, is because of the extent to which I have found some channelled material to both be empowering, and conducive to a more effective understanding of the society in which I live.

I am uncertain as to why environmental or physiological similarity, is necessarily associated with a close point of origin to our own.  It certainly might be, of course; but I don't think it necessarily has to be.

Here on Earth, we have animals with a fairly large number of different forms of locomotion or movement; yet you tend to find that in the case of the more intelligent creatures, at least as we define intelligence, (dolphins, corvids in terms of birds, the higher primates, humans) there are usually some consistent elements, such as large brains, two legs, the ability to manipulate other objects, etc.

So it seems logical to me, that there are probably only a limited number of correct ways of doing something, so to speak.  If you want a creature that can exist in multiple different environmental types, can manipulate objects, and can achieve a high degree of technological ability, then bipedal motion with opposable thumbs is useful.  I can't see a creature necessarily having tentacles, if said tentacles are unlikely to have utility to it in its' environment.

Again, there might be ways of designing organisms that are infinitely more useful or biologically fit, than anything that I can comprehend; that is a given.  Yet in my observation, Nature also tends towards simplicity.  So if there's a pattern here on Earth which works, it again makes sense to me, that if there are other Earth-like planets elsewhere in space, (which again, based on what we know, seems plausible) then life on those planets has probably followed a similar anatomical pattern as well, simply because that is what works most effectively within that environment.

Again, you might have flying Cthulhumanoids or something in very non-Earth-like environments, but I'm only talking here, about ones which are similar to ours.

Gold.

Yes, with respect Pimander - Could you possibly stop being so patronising in regards to area's of study in alien communication 

As I've stated before, if one concludes aliens are here, one's next line of enquirey should be communication. Worrying about the CIA at every corner isn't going to get anyone anywhere - Doom Porn dosen't bother me, constant paranoia does...

I also agree with Petrus in regards to the Humaniod form - it is the most efficient method of intelligent creation, at least on our material plain.
Anyway - I'm sure the CIA weren't around to tamper with the book of Enoch etc 

[zorgon]

Anyway - I'm sure the CIA weren't around to tamper with the book of Enoch etc 

CIA Bureau of Time Adjusters

Time Guardians... MIB's

[ArMaP]

Simple... because they came in the 50's with good intentions and we showed them how "worthy" we were.

That only shows that they are not good at public relations.

[Pimander]

Yes, with respect Pimander - Could you possibly stop being so patronising in regards to area's of study in alien communication 

It isn't patronising it is my opinion.  That is a firm no.    

And who says I'm constantly worried about the CIA.  I'm also a massive advocate of NOT BUYING INTO DOOM PORN.

See http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg73586#msg73586

I don't think you are familiar with my previous record based on your comments above.  I hate doom porn.  I do however, respect my own and others private data, including yours.  Call that paranoid if you like.  Some call it respect.  Don't forget that running a site has legal implications, not just personal ones

[Pimander]

With respect, Pimander, you and I have had some divergence of opinion on this topic before.  Specifically, while I definitely agree that some channelled material is the product of covert operations, that does not necessarily mean that all of it is; and personally, I am not prepared to generalise to that extent.

Agreed.  That does not invalidate my argument that Psy ops have influenced the "New Age" scene.  It also does not invalidate my argument that the channelling scene is ripe for manipulation by human OR any other entities.


If anyone wishes to discuss this then can we do so in my thread on the topic not here, please?  There is too much off topic material clouding what I was trying to start a debate on.

MK-ULTRA & COINTELPRO - Sinister Mind Control and New Age Spirituality

I am uncertain as to why environmental or physiological similarity, is necessarily associated with a close point of origin to our own.  It certainly might be, of course; but I don't think it necessarily has to be.

It doesn't but in this case there are other reasons why the evidence DOES NOT point to a point of origin away our own.  These beings also know our culture well enough to push our spiritual buttons.  They must be mighty familiar with us to do that.

There is a statistical link for example between visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary and UFO sightings.  Jacques Vale has talked about their links to belief systems too.  The so called ETs always have some spiritual message for us that rings true because they played a large part in our spiritual evolution, posing variously as God, Mary, Gabriel and the Gods of Egypt and ancient Sumer. They were here all along because this is their home.

Yes imaginative/educated speculation.  But it does make sense.

Ultimately the simplest explanation is the one to look at first.  That explanation is they are from here and are adapted to here and familiar with us and the environment BECAUSE THEY BELONG HERE.


Finally, if you think they are ET:  What evidence do you have to back up the claim?  Where are all the UFOs in space that aren't obviously plasma based life forms?

[sky otter]

It doesn't but in this case there are other reasons why the evidence DOES NOT point to a point of origin away our own.  These beings also know our culture well enough to push our spiritual buttons.  They must be mighty familiar with us to do that.


pimander
on this point I will have to disagree with you.. strongly...I don't think/feel/believe that humans as a group need anyone else to push their religious buttons and I don't think that was the objective...

I feel that each sighting was a testing of a time to be able to communicate with the humans on the ground and that was the objective..
and each time the humans on the ground choose to interpret it as something it wasn't..
of course the religious angle was helped along by the few who could manipulate  the masses to thier own purposes.

if these beings are still trying to communicate they must be dismayed at our general stupidity into sheepleness...



edit to fix the speeling..

[Pimander]

Sky, I have a number of specific examples of this "spiritual button pushing" by "aliens" on file but they deserve a thread of their own so I won't clutter this thread more at the minute.  All I will say is it does appear to be deliberate in a lot of instances.  Look at Dimensions by Jacques Vallee.  PM me if you don't have a copy.

On the other hand, I do completely agree with you where you say

I don't think/feel/believe that humans as a group need anyone else to push their religious buttons

I just think that they do get their buttons pushed.

[Sinny]

If anyone wishes to discuss this then can we do so in my thread on the topic not here, please?  There is too much off topic material clouding what I was trying to start a debate on.

MK-ULTRA & COINTELPRO - Sinister Mind Control and New Age Spirituality

Why would we take this discussion to another thread when 'alien communication' is a huge part of the alien 'mis-direction'?

[Sinny]

It doesn't but in this case there are other reasons why the evidence DOES NOT point to a point of origin away our own.  These beings also know our culture well enough to push our spiritual buttons.  They must be mighty familiar with us to do that.


pimander
on this point I will have to disagree with you.. strongly...I don't think/feel/believe that humans as a group need anyone else to push their religious buttons and I don't think that was the objective...

I feel that each sighting was a testing of a time to be able to communicate with the humans on the ground was that was the objective..
and each time the humans on the ground choose to interrupt it as something it wasn't..
of course the religious angle was helped along by the few who could manipulate  the masses to thier own purposes.

if these beings are still trying to communicate they must be dismayed at our general stupidity into sheepleness...

In reagrds to our religous buttons being pushed:

I've heard it stated many times that lower beings from the Astral planes like to push our buttons, quite often.

I was also listening to some Billy Meier contact tapes last night in which it were stated by Asket that there are regular looking humanoids on our planet that originate from Lyra (like most of our ancestors, supposedly), and as they are not quite as technically advanced as Pliedians (spelling?), they do like to manipulate our religions from here on Earth - this also opens the can of worms in regards to what we deem as ET and Terrestrial. The group in question knows that have their roots in the stars, but they are currently inhabiting this planet. (Also the group that dealt with Thule apparently).

..Forgot the third point, will add later.

[Sinny]

It isn't patronising it is my opinion.  That is a firm no.    

And who says I'm constantly worried about the CIA.  I'm also a massive advocate of NOT BUYING INTO DOOM PORN.

See http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg73586#msg73586

I don't think you are familiar with my previous record based on your comments above.  I hate doom porn.  I do however, respect my own and others private data, including yours.  Call that paranoid if you like.  Some call it respect.  Don't forget that running a site has legal implications, not just personal ones

No misunderstandings here - I know you hate doom porn.
Which from my point of view is just a wasted emotion, as the world set on its current projection is most certainly doomed! Lol

I'm just highlighting that many of us here (if not all) are well versed in frauds and psy-op's, certainly in regards to Channels etc.
At least allow us to discuss what we believe to be genuine without harping on about disinfo - I personally find it patronising

Although your care and concern is appreciated.

[Pimander]

Why would we take this discussion to another thread when 'alien communication' is a huge part of the alien 'mis-direction'?

Because I spent enormous amounts of time gathering information on what you are disputing and put it in that thread?  It seems pointless having to repeat what was discussed there.  I also suspect that people will chip in without reading the facts if they ignore that thread.

I'm not saying you aren't allowed to talk about it in this thread.  I just hoped for contributions there as there was a long discussion and we are just going over the same ground again.  In particular, if you have something new for that thread I'd appreciate it as it is a topic I have been looking into for years now.

P.S.  I trimmed your quote of me.  When quoting a long post it makes it more readable and saves space to trim it to the bit you are responding to.


ETA:  Your comments about the lower astral might well be important regarding so called ET and the manipulation of human consciousness etc.  I think there might be the possibility of a "high strangeness" type board so all of us can look at related material under the microscope.

[sky otter]

Pim ..
i am going off topic here.. so either close your eyes or poof it off the thread.. i'm good with either..

first i hafta say reading others opinion is interesting and enlightening and helpful

then i have to go in the other direction and say that no i have not read
Dimensions by Jacques Vallee or much else 

and this is where i step away from most of your discussion on it
what i have as my opinion pretty much comes from my life and experiences rather than someone elses in a book somewhere..
please do not misunderstand... i think those are good things..it is just that years ago i found mysef being influenced in my learning by other's thought.. and i am of such a nature that i preferred to figure it out on my own...
i think i stopped reading and started thinking shortly after reading the ra material in the 80's..
i read everything i could get my hands on when younger and gobbled up all i could
you know pre internet stuff..lol
but then i decided to step away and just ask questions of the universe and see what i got back

so anything i have to say i can't reference to any body but me.. i have condensed and watered down all that i read long ago and so i can't argue anyone elses ideas anymore..

ok.. just felt i needed to explain that

thanks for letting me....group hug.. you guys are really good humans

[Sinny]

Ahhh understood and fair enough, although there is no denying the to subjects are intertwined..

I wondered how the post appeared the way I wanted it to without me having done anything! Lol

I've just left a busy bus on Blackberry so I quoted and posted hastily!

Glad to see someone else is on board with the Lower Astral hypothesis - that subject will certainly need ventured into also!

Cheers Pim!

[Pimander]

Sky,  I hear you regarding working it out for yourself.  I mentioned Vallee's Dimensions specifically because it is a casebook (unless I'm mixing it up with another Vallee book) containing many specific contactee type experiences that you could interpret as "pushing spiritual buttons".  I thought with it being direct experiences rather than opinion you might find it interesting but you can't win 'em all.

Sinny,  My attempts at being succinct can easily come across as terse and patronising.  It isn't the intention but every style has its draw backs.

[Sinny]

All good Pim.

There's only so much perception/interpretation gained from text alone - as humans we do rely on body language, eye contact and intuition.
Sorry to de-rail this thread further.