Jim Oberg's "99 FAQs About Space UFO Videos"

[deuem]

I think I misunderstood what you meant by "launch", which we use to refer to shuttle blastoff. Your comments make more sense if you were referring to the TSS-1R deployment [we don't 'launch' rockets from the shuttle, we deploy them and LATER their engines ignite at a safe distance]. So the presence or absence of dots at other times in the videos is a good test of the ice theory, depending on WHEN the FES was being activated.

Ok, "Deploy" the tether, not "launch", my mistake. And yes I think the presence or absence of ice at other times in the videos is a good test of the ice theory, depending on WHEN the FES or other nozzles were being activated.

So far I find at least 4 potablewater tanks and one pee tank that is a stand alone tank. There are 4 potable water tanks A B C D for the fuel cells which can produce up to 25 pounds of water per hour. Depending on the crew size determines how long the pee tank can hold out. Each person is calculated at 2 pounds per day. That number might include a bit of flush water.

The potable water can be sent to other parts of the ship for other reasons an be vented out through at least 3 to 4 nozzles. How many pounds they hold I have not found out yet but I know they keep C & D full as a back up. A is used most of the time for water everywhere and if overflowed it goes to B and when B is full they dump. If C & D are empty at Shuttle launch then it would take time to fill them the first time around but after that B would be dumped all the time.

If the FES is running it is a constant dump. The FES is an active not passive radiator system to cool the freon for the cooling system. We use the same tech on Earth for water coolers on A/C. Spray water over fins.

[easynow]

The video Armap posted on youtube is the version I talked about, the time tags along the top were both unreadable. I had a VHS tape of it, viewed and studied it, but wasn't able to convert and upload a digital version. When Armap invited me to discuss the case here, I contacted JSC-PAO and they posted the gigabit files on the NASA server with a guest password, and I 'filezilla'ed' them down, as did Armap and another researcher. I later also passed video 1 to easynow. 

"I later also passed video 1 to easynow"

Not true ...

All you sent me in the email is Pdf documents and no video whatsoever.

I did ask ArMaP to send me the second video segement with the swarm scene but I do not have the full video and IMO the NASA video is not very good quality and the resolution is very low.


FYI - until we see a High resolution NASA-copy of the video data , this matter will never be settled.

Just saying   

[JimO]

"I later also passed video 1 to easynow"

Not true ...

All you sent me in the email is Pdf documents and no video whatsoever.

I used the dropsend server to send you video 1 and got a notice from them of successful delivery. Look in your spam folder, maybe the message to you telling how to download it from their facility got rejected.

[easynow]

I used the dropsend server to send you video 1 and got a notice from them of successful delivery. Look in your spam folder, maybe the message to you telling how to download it from their facility got rejected.

Not in the spam folder and the only one I thought might be the video was this one ...

File name    Description    Size
STS-75 Downlink TV during Orbit 116,117,118 (GMT 61 02.07 - 61 05.12) 2-29-1996.pdf       Size: 27.1KB


Obvioulsy that's a Pdf document and not a video file.


I don't have the video link and don't know what you did with it.

No biggie though , because the video quality seems to be poor at best so like I previoulsy mentioned, we need a High-resolution NASA-copy for a scientific examination or this matter will never be settled.

[JimO]

FYI - until we see a High resolution NASA-copy of the video data , this matter will never be settled.

The better the video quality, the better in general -- so I agree it's a desideratum.

But to 'settle' the explanation of the video I suggest there are more fundamental steps:

0: Collect more direct eyewitness descriptions.

1. Understand all potential sources for shuttle-generated debris in this time interval.

1A: When were the FES dumps on that day?

1B: When was electron gun activated and what electrostatic effects might be anticipated?

1C: Any logged issues with leaking RCS thrusters?

1D: Other potential cabin discharges?

1E: Other potential payload bay equipment activities?

2. Understand characteristics of the TV system that can create the striking 'behind-the-tether' impression.

2A: Examine camera operation manual

2B: Ask 'INCO' operators

2C: Seek any analogous 'behind' appearances with overbright ground tagrets such as cities.

3. Understand characteristics of the TV system that can create the notching and explain its strict connection with location on camera FOV.

4. Understand the potential causes of particle gentle-curved motion

4A: Determine camera orientation relative to aero drag effects [on the FOV, what is the direction of vehicle orbital motion?]

4B: Determine camera orientation relative to suggested propulsive outgassing from sublimation [i.e., on the FOV, what is the direction of the Sun?]

4C: Other causes?

[JimO]

Not in the spam folder and the only one I thought might be the video was this one ...

File name    Description    Size
STS-75 Downlink TV during Orbit 116,117,118 (GMT 61 02.07 - 61 05.12) 2-29-1996.pdf       Size: 27.1KB


Obvioulsy that's a Pdf document and not a video file.


I don't have the video link and don't know what you did with it.

Puzzle solved, another geezer brain f4rt, here's the message, I just wasted a silver bullet on a small file. I have one left and I will use it now.

====
Your file has been picked up! 
spa-------rum@gmail.com has downloaded the file STS-75 Downlink TV during Orbit 116,117,118 (GMT 61 02.07 - 61 05.12) 2-29-1996.pdf



====

[Sinny]

JimO,

Please bear with me as I'm admittedly not an expert in any field (apart from detecting Bull), are you actually stating that we are seeing ice particles expand and contract?

Ta.

ETA: Where's Z?

[Flux]

The better the video quality, the better in general -- so I agree it's a desideratum.

But to 'settle' the explanation of the video I suggest there are more fundamental steps:

0: Collect more direct eyewitness descriptions.

1. Understand all potential sources for shuttle-generated debris in this time interval.

1A: When were the FES dumps on that day?

1B: When was electron gun activated and what electrostatic effects might be anticipated?

1C: Any logged issues with leaking RCS thrusters?

1D: Other potential cabin discharges?

1E: Other potential payload bay equipment activities?

2. Understand characteristics of the TV system that can create the striking 'behind-the-tether' impression.

2A: Examine camera operation manual

2B: Ask 'INCO' operators

2C: Seek any analogous 'behind' appearances with overbright ground tagrets such as cities.

3. Understand characteristics of the TV system that can create the notching and explain its strict connection with location on camera FOV.

4. Understand the potential causes of particle gentle-curved motion

4A: Determine camera orientation relative to aero drag effects [on the FOV, what is the direction of vehicle orbital motion?]

4B: Determine camera orientation relative to suggested propulsive outgassing from sublimation [i.e., on the FOV, what is the direction of the Sun?]

4C: Other causes?

Under each suggested step can you list your finding's please.

[JimO]

JimO,

Please bear with me as I'm admittedly not an expert in any field (apart from detecting Bull), are you actually stating that we are seeing ice particles expand and contract?

Huh?

I can't even track that back to anything I remember saying, sorry.

The STS-75 videos, I am arguing, are nearby sunlit shuttle-shed stuff, small, some tumbling [hence, flashing], whose video image is garbled by the peculiar camera electronics and low-light [high image intensification] depiction, which has been seen in other similar situations and was familiar to the specialists responsible for operating the equipment from Mission Control, where I also worked. I've been trying to present documentation in support of that.

[JimO]

Under each suggested step can you list your finding's please.

Glad to -- here's the latest note from a veteran of that mission:

From: Rotter, Henry A. (JSC-C104)
To: James Oberg
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:20 PM cdt
Subject: RE: FES question

A FES dumps were 4 to 12 hours long (usually once a day) and did not generate ice particles (may have a particle off the FES nozzle once every 10 minutes) but these were only a few and rarely caught by a camera.  Half to an hour dumps were thru the dump nozzles that generated thousands of ice particles.  So reference to two dozen dumps for half hour is the water dump nozzles.  Urine could only be dumped thru the side dump nozzle and usually was done once or twice a day that required more than an hour dump time each day.

The small particles in the video are most likely ice particles that can last up to about two hours after the dump.  We contacted some once when we didn't do a retro grade dump.

Hank

[JimO]

Comparing the scene lists, the videos, and the Flight Plan, here is my provisional timeline of events associated with crew observation of the TSS-1R on Flight Day 8 ['FD08']. Times are given in Mission Elapsed Time [from launch], in DD/HH:MM

Please verify these times and extrapolations yourselves. Let me know of corroboration or necessary correction. I might have left an obvious math error in [to be corrected later], to calibrate your verification process.

7/08:13 playback begins of first observation; TSS range "150 NM"; duration 14 minutes. Event time NOT recorded.

Based on subsequent sunrise times [below] of 7/09:12, 7/10:44. and 7/12:16, at 92 minute intervals [the orbital period of 'Columbia'], sunrise on THIS 'day' would have been at 7/07:40 and that would have easily allowed the time to search and find the tether out the window, make a 14 minute observation, rewind, wait for TDRS relay satellite contact [at 7/08:13, you can read it off the timeline chart in the Flight Plan], and begin playback at  7/08:13.

7/08:44 estimated time of closest approach, 'Columbia' passes below tether. Prior to this, tether was observed to the east [sunrise], all subsequent passes tether observed behind them, with sun at their backs.
Observations only possible in short interval after sunrise, otherwise bright overhead sun seems to have interfered. 

7/09:12, begin second observation interval immediately post sunrise. Tether and 'debris'. Duration 6 minutes. Range 113 NM.

7/10:44, tether observed 'faintly'.

7/12:16, tether observed in glare for 3 minutes, range 719 NM.

Note relative speed -- in two sunrises, tether had moved 606 nm, that's 303 nm/orbit, or 3.4 nm per minute.

Go back to first observation. Extrapolate range at that sunrise, get value of 190 nm behind tether. Video was first made at range of "150 NM", that's 40 / 3.4 or 12 minutes later. That's 7/07:52. Add video recording duration of 14 minutes, that brings you to 7/08:06, just a few minutes before the playback began at 7/08:13, so the timeline is consistent with known event times and extrapolated distances.

Summary: Four separate observation intervals each at/just-after sunrise, ranges consistent with relative rate of 303 NM [348 statute miles] per 92-minute orbit.

Observation 1 -- looking forward into sun, range 150 NM, no other objects.

Observation 2 -- looking backwards away from sun, 113 NM, 'swarm'

Observation 3 -- looking backwards away from sun, interpolated range 416 NM, no other objects

Observation 4 -- looking backwards away from sun, range 719 NM, no other objects

Observation 5 not attempted, extrapolated range 1022 NM.

[deuem]

Urine could only be dumped thru the side dump nozzle and usually was done once or twice a day that required more than an hour dump time each day.

Jim. the design on the Unine tank was for 2 pounds per person per day. They had a crew of 7 or 14 pounds per day. The tank held 165 pounds or should be capable of 11 days storage.  Ok, then why would they dump it twice a day? Twice a day would be about 7 pounds a dump and why would that take so long to do? More than a hour each day? Then it would take 24 hours to dump a full tank? Not very fast of a dump. If it is the entire procedure that took 60 minutes including flight crew time, then maybe. But if it could hold a lot more than 7 pounds why would they waist flight crew time twice a day for 2 hours to do that. There seems to be no need. It is not like it is full and leaking all over the flight deck. Can you please look into this and figure out why? Thanks.

If Hank says the Ice lasts for 2 hours then there had to be a massive dump or a continued dump while filming to get that many crystals in frame. And then we have bow wakes, wing wakes and tail wakes to deal with. It is like plowing a square box through a field of Particals, and every nano second the rules change. This I can understand is a variable to deal with. After all, they are also flying at supersonic speeds, not in true space but in the upper ionosprere. Depending on the altitude the rules should change the higher they get until they get bast the Van Allen belts and into just regular space. What ever that is, if there is such a term.

For my self I need Standards of these so called Ice crystals from video from another source/section of time and compare them in a test. Blind or with eyes open, whichever. Without a known standard of flashing/throbbing or pulsing objects it will be a one sided test. What would be nice to see is the same camera, same flight with this dandruff all over the place like in the swarm video. Got any?

Reading you, that Shuttle is leaking water like the Titantic. There has to be film of this many times. So for a moment ask your buddies in Huston if they know of at least one with similar angles to the sun as the swarm. If none then drop down from there till they find one. You have 27 dumps to pick from and what, 2 similar cameras in the bay. Should not be that hard to figure out.

[JimO]

Reading you, that Shuttle is leaking water like the Titantic. There has to be film of this many times. So for a moment ask your buddies in Huston if they know of at least one with similar angles to the sun as the swarm. If none then drop down from there till they find one. You have 27 dumps to pick from and what, 2 similar cameras in the bay. Should not be that hard to figure out.

It is astonishing how little water is needed to create quite a snowstorm, and they are impressive when viewed from onboard and also from the ground, where they were regularly seen as comet-like clouds rapidly traversing the sky, usually sideways. Do a youtube search on 'shuttle water dump' for a few dozen videos from both vantage points. Since not all the dumps were in daylight, not all could be observed, and most aren't watched anyway, the cameras are following crew research activities inside.

Hydrazine, the fuel for the OMS/RCS auxiliary engines, has a freezing point similar to H2O and also created ice chips, when a thruster valve suffered a small leak. It would be spitting out snowflakes on camera to beat the band but the rate was so low that it did not appear on the tank quantity gauges. Instead, the first telemetry indicator of a thruster leak was the temperature transducers in the nozzle, which showed an unexpected DROP in temperature due to evaporative cooling. Weird.

[JimO]

Your question about comparable viewing angles is very sharp. To know that precisely, one needs to know the orientation of the spaceship relative to local vertical local horizontal -- LVLH, we abbreviate it. Then you need the camera's pan and tilt angles, which are digitally included on each frame but need special processing to display -- although sometimes if you have recognizable spacecraft structure in the FOV you can make a rough guess.

Coming into the FIRST observation period, say at sunrise at 7/07:40, on page 2-16 of the flight plan, note the row near the bottom called 'attitude'. For the interval in question it reads 'BIAS -XLV -ZVV', which describes a small offset from the -X axis [out the tail] standing locally vertical [LV] pointed to center of Earth, and the -Z axis [straight up out of the payload bay] pointing straight ahead [Velocity Vector]. That's more or less the spaceplane flying nose up, topside forward,  wings out to left and right broadside to the direction of motion.

The precise attitude that is typed into the autopilot was spelled out in detail on flight plan page 3-64, at about MET 7/02:15, as follows: MNVR BIAS -XLV, -ZVV, specifying 'target' as earth center and Body Vector as -X, out the tail. The spacecraft then applies three rotations, a pitch, a yaw, and a roll of the three angles, which are close to, but slightly biased off of, orthogonal.

But look in the update packet for FD08, message 090A, FLIGHT PLAN UPDATE. To give the crew the best viewing angles the attitude is CHANGED to -ZLV, -XVV. That's flying bottom down to Earth, tail forward.

You can look at a model and realize that the first view would be through the aft cabin windows [which are facing more or less straight ahead] and as you approach the higher satellite, you begin to get a view out the overhead and then forward windows. That explains Hoffman's comments of which windows they were filming through when. 

But the next observation passes would not occur until after Columbia had pulled ahead of the TSS-1R, so at sunrise it would be visible out the forward windows [the trailing windows] and awkward to film. So instead, payload bay camera C [on the aft bulkhead], pointed over the nose [and hence directly backwards as the spacecraft moves along its orbit tail-first] on the same side of the spaceship as the water dump port.

Yeah, this really IS 'rocket science', but it's critical to understanding the illumination and observation angles on these videos. Making wild guesses without taking these context factors into account is a waste of time.

Of course, it's the middle of the night and I could have gotten these all screwed up, myself -- so let me check them again in the morning.

[Elvis Hendrix]

The tether was 12 miles long and the objects clearly move behind it in parts of the film.. those must be bloody big bits of ice!