A Hope For Peace?

[Eighthman]

Matrix is a nice guy but I never found anything he said useful.  His stuff was "not even wrong" as physicists have said about ideas that defy falsification.

Thru my fundamentalist childhood, it seemed that the most basic question was never asked, much less answered: why does God not openly or directly speak to humans? Forget the fuzzy history, the dead languages, the chain of manuscript transmission or lack of internal consistency in the Bible - how do people get condemned for ignoring ambiguities?  David Wilcock hits the nail on the head when he compares it to cargo cults.

[rdunk]

Whatever I'm saying is not as curious as the idea of a "god", who can do anything, contacting us through a book, written in a language we don't understand thousands of years ago, to get the most important message in the world to us.

I'm strange like that.  I tend to ask questions and take note of the answers.

Who considers that God "contacted" us in a book?? What is in the "book", the Bible, are the words and acts of God documented by those who actually experienced/witnessed them, and written over time long ago. Subsequently, these writings were translated and compiled into the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, which is considered to be "the Word of God" by all Christians

By faith I accept that God is the creator of all that exists, and that he made man with his hands, and breathed life into him. I know Pi that you at the present do not accept that as fact, but then I know that you, even with the thought of science and physics, cannot disprove it either.......now!   But God himself will prove it to all when he returns as he has promised. And all, even you Pimander will........(Philpipians 2:10-11).... that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Pimander and all, while no one is born as a Christian, God has made a way for all of his creation to escape eternal Hell! But, it is up to each of us individually to accept or reject that provision - his son Jesus - as our Savior and Lord. I did that a long time ago, but there is still time for "all those who will" ............until the end on this Earth! One does not need "a book" to find God! Rather, it is like when we open our eyes and hearts to him, he is simply there! God says in Jeremiah 29, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

[Pimander]

Thru my fundamentalist childhood, it seemed that the most basic question was never asked, much less answered: why does God not openly or directly speak to humans? Forget the fuzzy history, the dead languages, the chain of manuscript transmission or lack of internal consistency in the Bible - how do people get condemned for ignoring ambiguities?  David Wilcock hits the nail on the head when he compares it to cargo cults.

For the sake of argument, lets assume there is a God (as in prime creator of the Universe) - which strictly speaking is a matter of faith (in the absence of proof of its existence or otherwise).

Why does God not speak to us directly?

According to Mystics and visionaries in some cases God does speak to humans directly (e.g. Moses).  But of course, the truth is we don't know what (or even if) God really is.

What if God is not all powerful and from the moment of creation it submitted to the laws of the Universe?  What if a really powerful (but not omnipotent) pretender posed as God.  How would Moses (or whoever) know?  I contend that he wouldn't.  Any clever human or other being could deceive humans.  Therefore religion may have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with God (even if God exists)

Forget the fuzzy history, the dead languages, the chain of manuscript transmission or lack of internal consistency in the Bible - how do people get condemned for ignoring ambiguities?

Bearing in mind we have no way of knowing what messages are from the "real God" or not, how can we know what or if any human is condemned.

Again, it is humans who decide whether they believe they are condemned.  The whole idea of God/heaven/hell and the rest is based on humans deciding what is sinful or not.


In the final analysis, it is religion that confuses humans.  It is religion that arrogantly assumes to know the "mind" of God.  Religion assumes the Bible has anything to do with God.  It is all assumption.  Any evil committed in the name of religion is basically foolish.

There is a Zen saying, "Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water."

[Pimander]

By faith I accept that God is the creator of all that exists, and that he made man with his hands, and breathed life into him.

Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't chop the wood or carry the water for you.

I know Pi that you at the present do not accept that as fact, but then I know that you, even with the thought of science and physics, cannot disprove it either.......now!

Sounds like a good argument for agnosticism to me.

But God himself will prove it to all when he returns as he has promised. And all, even you Pimander will........(Philpipians 2:10-11).... that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. :

This is where I say religion is arrogant and presumptuous.  That might be true but we have no way of knowing the mind of God (if God even exists in the way religious people PRESUME). 

For all you know God won't let humans off the wheel of life and death until they are humble enough to admit they do not know the mind of God.  The point is we don't know.

Pimander and all, while no one is born as a Christian, God has made a way for all of his creation to escape eternal Hell! But, it is up to each of us individually to accept or reject that provision - his son Jesus - as our Savior and Lord. I did that a long time ago, but there is still time for "all those who will" ............until the end on this Earth!

Or we can have the humility to accept we don't know.

One does not need "a book" to find God!

Precisely.

Rather, it is like when we open our eyes and hearts to him, he is simply there!

Or we presume that is the case.

God says in Jeremiah 29, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

A book says that you mean..... "Any when you find me, how the heck can you be sure you are not being deceived." 

Humility.  The more I learn, the more I accept there are some things I can't know for sure.

[funbox]

For all you know God won't let humans off the wheel of life and death until they are humble enough to admit they do not know the mind of God.  The point is we don't know.

sounds like a bunch of torturous masochists really, racists and bigots, that couldn't include the entire planets population in any of their supposed actions/communications on this planet..

smells like divide and conquer to me

like going into a one classroom in a school and telling the kids a storey, and deffing the others


funbox

[rdunk]

Thanks Pimander for all of your comments!! It is clear that you do have strong thoughts about God, about whether he exists or not. At least you seriously think about the subject, and I really do respect that!! All Christians, including me, have been at the same place of questioning and unbelief at some point in our lives, until we were convicted of/by the truth, and willfully gave our hearts and lives to God, because of his mercy and love so freely given to us!

Here is a testimony from Wayne Huizenga, who briefly shares his experiences in a world class business, and in life. He does mention "finding peace"!

[Eighthman]

  Talking about God and Jesus ruling the universe is utter nonsense because we have little or knowledge about the rest of the universe.  You might as well treat a prisoner in solitary confinement for decades as an authority on world affairs by this silly logic.   

[Pimander]

All Christians, including me, have been at the same place of questioning and unbelief at some point in our lives, until we were convicted of/by the truth,

That's what makes me sad (and would if you were God lol) is that many religious people have stopped questioning. 

"Control your mind or somebody else will." ~ Somebody or other

[Pimander]

  Talking about God and Jesus ruling the universe is utter nonsense because we have little or knowledge about the rest of the universe.  You might as well treat a prisoner in solitary confinement for decades as an authority on world affairs by this silly logic.

Even talking about a perfect God ruling human affairs here on Earth is ludicrous.  Look at the state of humanity.

[rdunk]

Even talking about a perfect God ruling human affairs here on Earth is ludicrous.  Look at the state of humanity.

Right Pimander! One thing made very clear in the Bible is...........satan is the present ruler of this Earth (not God). At one point satan even offered the whole world to Jesus, "if you will bow down and worship me"! (Matt 4:7-9) So, yes, through the ages, this world has been pretty screwed up, and it remains so because of the "one in charge here"! God even now does have charge of those who are already a part of his kingdom on this earth, but still, the decay and death of our bodies continues for all - the first death! 

[Pimander]

Right Pimander! One thing made very clear in the Bible is...........satan is the present ruler of this Earth (not God).

But if you believe God is omnipotent and omniscient then that makes all of that evil God's fault.  Explain that for me.

God must have left Satan as boss deliberately if that is true.  Nice!

[rdunk]

But if you believe God is omnipotent and omniscient then that makes all of that evil God's fault.  Explain that for me.

God must have left Satan as boss deliberately if that is true.  Nice!

Bible "fact' -

Lucifer (satan) was with God and of highest regard.

Lucifer rebelled against God, and God cast him and his followers out to the earth.

God made man, breathed life into him/Adam, and gave Adam dominion over the whole Earth. Adam was "boss" of the Earth.

God gave man very specific direction to not eat from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, telling Adam that when you eat of it, you will surely die.

The serpent/Lucifer/satan tempted Adam, and both Adam and Eve did just the opposite God had commanded.

By Adam's disobedience, Adam's dominion of the Earth became satan's dominion - thus satan has had "charge" of the Earth since that time, and he is "boss", with Man being lost to his sinful ways.

God, by the sacrifice of his Son on a cross, made a way for man to receive forgiveness of sin, and be re-established as a part of the family of the dominion/kingdom of God. 

All of this will work out for God's man, as God is true to his Word. He was true to his word when Adam's sin/death handed the Earth over to satan, and God holds true to the salvation of man and eternal life through his son Jesus, which also is presented in his Word.

That is why I openly say, "the problems of this world are spiritual and not physical, and they are a direct product of satanic influence". The peace all are looking for and hoping for is not to be found in this world, but in and with God!

Pi, I did write this as a response to your specific comments, assuming your questions were looking for answers!

[Pimander]

Bible "fact' -

Yes, the bible exists and it says lots of things in it.  That is a fact.

Lucifer (satan) was with God and of highest regard.

Lucifer rebelled against God, and God cast him and his followers out to the earth.

God made man, breathed life into him/Adam, and gave Adam dominion over the whole Earth. Adam was "boss" of the Earth.

OK, you believe God is an an imniscient and omnipotent being?  Yes.

You therefore believe God created Lucifer?  Yes.  Being omniscient he knew without any doubt what Lucifer would do and created Lucifer deliberately.  Therefore Lucifer's actions were God's plan.

You also believe God created Adam? Yes.  Being omniscient he knew without any doubt that Adam would eat the fruit.  Adam's actions were God's plan.

Ergo It is God's fault Lucifer rebelled and also God's fault Adam ate the fruit.

So where exactly is the flaw in my interpretation?

You cannot be omniscient and omnipotent then blame your creation for what it does.  Unless the God you believe in is not omniscient OR you are confused and your beliefs are wrong.


ETA:  I don't think the Bible says Lucifer is the Serpent.  There is an occult secret regarding the identity of the Serpent.  The Serpent is the Messiah.  And don't say, "No he's not, he's a very naughty boy!"

[funbox]

The Bible: Unravelling the most misunderstood and abused book in human history

I never did finish that thread lol 

has that thread Vanished , ide just found time to read it and it says its either vanished, or not accessible to me ?

funbox

[Pimander]

has that thread Vanished , ide just found time to read it and it says its either vanished, or not accessible to me ?

funbox

You need access to the "religion group".  We started it because at one point the entire recent posts section was dominated by arguments about religion.  As we are a site for discussing anomalous material, researching free energy and conspiracy material we created a group so you have a choice whether you see it.  Amazingly the arguments stopped once they weren't allowed to ruin the site for everyone (I was involved in the arguing and there were many tears and foaming at the mouth because I persistently won them lol) 

I'd add you but I don't think moderators can.  I can't do a lot in fact these days....  Ask ArMaP to add you.  That thread seriously upsets fundamentalists.