QuoteBy denying the reality of the reports, brushing aside the witnesses...and treating them like fools or crooks, the academic skeptics are actually teaching the public that science is impotent at studying the phenomenon.
Jaqcues Vallee - Messengers of Deception
Discuss....
Scientist dont get funding from the gov when they run their mouth.the colleges have the tech spread out so that nobody knows whats going on.the universities have alot of wealth that is tied up with the markets.if they screw up the market will take their money.the same way it strips the old of their wealth.the veil covers the truth that the usa and brittain are socialized countries.not free markets .
These universities are like the big churches.they hold alot of power that isnt spoken of.chicago university is involved in the invisibility part of the craft.these universities are mini manufacturers.custom making just a few parts each.
Thats how i see it.
By denying the reality of the reports, brushing aside the witnesses...and treating them like fools or crooks, the academic skeptics are actually teaching the public that science is impotent at studying the phenomenon.
Jaqcues Vallee - Messengers of Deception
"Academic skeptics" may be just one of the base elements in our perception of this problem. The last "stone to turn" for skeptics is the admission of having been wrong in their perception/acceptance of a fact or truth. And then, so it seems to me, there is no "bridge of science" for the academics to access for a scientific transformation of their skeptic thinking. Academia is highly trained to research subjects, and with "no real physical subjects" for research, their role is dead in the water with UFOs and the such like. Eye witness evidence/testimony and photographic evidence does not seem to compute to science, nor to skeptical thought.
I spoke with one rather well known Berkley academic about something specific in our area of interest, and his comments in summary were, "Write up an extensive detailed paper on it, submit it for publication with a well recognized scientific publisher, have it published, and then and only then, there might be someone who might be interested in taking a look at it some day".
The real truth of these such matters will be in the truth of the physical facts, with the which seeming to continually be denied and covered up by governments et al..
And as Robo said, government may be heavy handing money to colleges and universities relative to their willingness to "cooperate".
Jaqcues Vallée was wrong, a sceptic doesn't deny any thing. :)
Quote from: rdunk on December 09, 2013, 10:02:55 PM
Academia is highly trained to research subjects, and with "no real physical subjects" for research, their role is dead in the water with UFOs and the such like.
The problem is that most ignore the comparatively few cases for which there are some physical evidences. A light moving in the night sky, captured on film or video is the same as any experiment being filmed (if we ignore that the experiment is supposed to be under control of those doing it).
QuoteI spoke with one rather well known Berkley academic about something specific in our area of interest, and his comments in summary were, "Write up an extensive detailed paper on it, submit it for publication with a well recognized scientific publisher, have it published, and then and only then, there might be someone who might be interested in taking a look at it some day".
That's a big problem with today's science, it acts like Facebook: if you have enough "likes" they look at it, if it doesn't have they ignore it.
It is all about the money; most universities are controlled by those that control the purse strings...
most researchers are funded by grants and those same purse string holders; decide to stray from the accepted, dictated norm and those strings are easily cut...
seeker
you're wasting your time debating this subject with armap. lol
seriously . take my word on this. lol
Yes the universities have the money but they like the grant money because it covers the expenses plus it gives the college cutting edge tech.this keeps the college relevant.plus better market for their students for jobs later.
There wont be no straight up advertisement of what they are up to.just got to find the industry and find the professors then find the specialties.alot of foot work and internet searching.imho
Quote from: undo11 on December 10, 2013, 02:40:25 AM
you're wasting your time debating this subject with armap. lol
seriously . take my word on this. lol
but... but... isn't ArMaP ATS's supreme UFO expert?
::)
Quote from: ArMaP on December 10, 2013, 12:30:31 AM
That's a big problem with today's science, it acts like Facebook: if you have enough "likes" they look at it, if it doesn't have they ignore it.
Yup I agree 100% with that and have said so many times...
Seems the 'likes' translate into funding... and in the end THAT is what drives science.. funding and tenur... no funding available for UFO research... and any money that does get funneled that way ends up in military programs (not counting the BILLIONS the charlatans are reaping in abundance)
Look at the latest "Mayan Stargate Stones" being peddled by Klaus Dona and Nassim Haramein...
Absolutely NO PROVEDENCE... only vague references to where they might have been found, in Mexico, or was that Equadoe... no wait somewhere in Central America... they don't look anything like any known mayan art... then Dr Elizabeth Rauscher steps in to the picture as Nassim's Handler (she was also involved with Greer and John Hutchinson) and then an astute (or used to be) org like national Geographic picks up the story...
Well there ya go proof that science is driven by popular opinion over reality...
And try to point that out? Might as well shoot yourself in the foot :P
Hey ArMap you still signing up Fair Skeptics?
::)
Its kinda like pot.taboo.everybody in the room may be cool but nobody would dare state it publicly.im just surprised the billionairs havent had a chance to buy them for themselves yet.
Quote from: zorgon on December 10, 2013, 04:29:21 AM
but... but... isn't ArMaP ATS's supreme UFO expert?
::)
wait wait. (runs out of room laughing. walks back in drying eyes and holding stomach)
whew. thanks for that. i think that's phaige or paige or whatever his name is. hehe
oh have you seen this?
as you're watching it, tell me, who does he look like and do my ears trick me or is he a rosicrucian?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiVROBhwHUM
Quote from: undo11 on December 10, 2013, 07:02:24 AM
whew. thanks for that. i think that's phaige or paige or whatever his name is. hehe
Yes you are correct.
Here he is with his long term lover Jim, At the 2012 auditions
for the X-Factor.
Apparently thier naked rendition of "Fly Me To The Moon"
didnt set the judges alight.
Although their rather "Avant-Garde" dance routine did garner many comments from the Star studded panel.
X-Factor Guru Simon Cowell, was rumoured to have labled the performance as, "extremely disconcerting".
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/two_older_gay_men_wrestling_naked_zps6d207414.jpg)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/userfile1_laugh_zps4d8ce9b6.gif)
aww no, armap is cuter than either of them, i'm sure. phage on the other hand , i dunno. he's frequently right in his conclusions, but occasionally wrong, from what i can tell. i mean he never did successfully dispute z's info on the huge amounts of food being sent up to the space station. tons of oranges and so forth. just insane amounts of perishables .
My eyes almost caught fire.warn folks before posting that pic.lol.
Hilarious !!
Ha ha Robo got ya ;)
Quote from: zorgon on December 10, 2013, 04:29:21 AM
but... but... isn't ArMaP ATS's supreme UFO expert?
Where did you get that idea? :)
Quote from: zorgon on December 10, 2013, 04:38:43 AM
Hey ArMap you still signing up Fair Skeptics?
That depends. :)
Quote from: ArMaP on December 10, 2013, 08:22:00 PM
Where did you get that idea? :)
hehe he's teasin' ya. so am i. and elvis too, i'm pretty sure he doesn't think you look like an old naked guy lol
everyone here loves ya. just look at all your gold! i have maybe half of that. and i've been here since the beginning. :p
hmm, i wonder if it's cause i'm female. i'm old too, but not naked. that'd be scarier than the 2 old naked guys. lol
Quote from: ArMaP on December 10, 2013, 08:23:15 PM
That depends. :)
on what? but armap you're so fun to tease. you usually don't take it seriously. maybe it went too far. also consider, elvis probably meant that other guy, not you, anyway. lol
makes ya wonder what that other guy looks like doesn't it? personally, i see him in my mind's eye as sort of a russian science nazi. oh i take that back. he's right quite frequently. but wrong just enough times to make everyone's adoration of him, rather irritating.
whereas you've always just been very consistent
- rocks, it's rocks
- sometimes the rock may look odd, but it's probably just a rock
or
- that's strange.
it's the rare "that's strange" that at least convinces you aren't a skeptic just for the sake of being a skeptic. and folks appreciate that
in a word, yes.
If it's feasable, then it has probably happened.
Therefore the universe must be teeming with life.. ::)
That was phage not Armap. God I always take the piss out of phage and oberg. Armap is my bud and he rules.
I won't be as subtle next time ;)
Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on December 10, 2013, 10:12:23 PM
That was phage not Armap. God I always take the piss out of phage and oberg. Armap is my bud and he rules.
I won't be as subtle next time ;)
i like phage better than the o guy. he was very rude to john and seemed to have a team of hit men that went around with him getting people banned left and right, and just creating general mayhem
Quote from: ArMaP on December 10, 2013, 12:23:34 AM
Jaqcues Vallée was wrong, a sceptic doesn't deny any thing. :)
You can be a sceptic and deny something. I bet you many deny being a believer. :P
I don't think he means true sceptics. For a start Valle is a sceptic. He means academics who deny or ignore things that are real.
The main denial he refers to is encounters with what appear to be non-conventional craft. They really happen but they appear to defy rational explanation or defy the laws of physics and academics generally ignore them. That teaches the public that science is impotent in the face of something it cannot explain - which it is NOT! Telepathy is a similar class of phenomenon.
My position is that if something happens that you cannot explain then it is scientific to study it sceptically. It is not scientific to ignore it or deny it - which is bad science.
Quote from: ArMaP on December 10, 2013, 12:30:31 AM
The problem is that most ignore the comparatively few cases for which there are some physical evidences.
Vallee tried to study the physical effects. I am trying to pick up the baton regarding biological effects but it is not easy.
Apart from radar tapes and film, a lot of the best physical evidence is the effects of UFO encounters on witnesses or plants and animals. Examples include rashes, loss of memory, consciousness effects (hard to measure and hypnosis IS RARELY USEFUL), traumas and illnesses.....
I see some of evidence of a technology that is real and has effects similar to microwaves but are either combined with something else or possibly have a psychic component. There are other classes of phenomena that fall under the category of UFOs of course which confuses a lot of "researchers".
I think there is scope for a fresh scientific attack on the UFO "problem". We have to accept that the mainstream funding is not accessible to study. That means raising funds or using technology to make it cheap. A good UFO database would be useful with this in mind. So would a website where the money did not go to someone like Stephen Greer and was instead used to fund worthwhile science.
Quote from: Pimander on December 11, 2013, 12:12:38 AM
I think there is scope for a fresh scientific attack on the UFO "problem". We have to accept that the mainstream funding is not accessible to study.
One famous example is that of the cars stopping, lights and radio off. One thing I have never seen in any of those reports is a simple one: what type of engine did the car have, gasoline or diesel? And has anyone tried to reproduce those effects on a common car or even on a small engine?
QuoteA good UFO database would be useful with this in mind.
I think I have seen that word somewhere... ;)
Quote from: ArMaP on December 11, 2013, 12:51:18 AM
One famous example is that of the cars stopping, lights and radio off. One thing I have never seen in any of those reports is a simple one: what type of engine did the car have, gasoline or diesel?
I appears to be the electronics of the cars that are effected. Think of the Tehran case too. Electronics on the F16s (or was it Phantoms) went down.
QuoteAnd has anyone tried to reproduce those effects on a common car or even on a small engine?
Yes the military have. The rumour is that some of the technology they have is capable of shutting down car engines and that it was inspired by studying UFO effects. It also makes me suspect that some UFO encounters are likely tests of this equipment. The alien hysteria would make an excellent cover for tests of psychotronic pulsed microwave weapons and non-lethal weapons like ones that deactivate electronics.
Imagine being able to disable tanks, helicopters, missile launchers, radars, nukes..... Oh yes, UFOs can do all those things. They all have electronic components. A weapon which does that is non-lethal and a game changer.
Quote
I think I have seen that word somewhere... ;)
The other day when I was meant to get some time on line, my modem/router was damaged. I feel like some cosmic force is against me recently!
I think it interesting that comparatively, our prisons would be much less inhabited, if credible eyewitness accounts were viewed with the same "disdain" as they are in the world of UFO activities. Individual credibility seems to make no difference at the highest levels of denial, and down to the lowest levels of skepticism. And it seems to make no difference if there is physical evidence, as long as complete denial is in play. The cover-ups seem to abound, from area 51 to areas 1000's.
Maybe it is time for a major complete research study on the host in number of the major UFO coverups. Of course area 51 probably needs to continue to be at the top of the list, as so many key players have openly talked of their experiences in the coverup. The key to compelling the release of the real story of UFO's may very well "still be hidden" in the details of the coverups, and in the memories the people directly involved.
Quotethis new weapon can be very effective in knocking out an enemy's electronics, rending most high tech weaponry inoperable
http://godfatherpolitics.com/12477/military-test-microwave-weapon-successfully-knocks-electronics/
They would also make most cars and planes inoperable and modern digital cameras. High powered microwaves also have profound effects on consciousness and well known effects like not being frozen to the spot or losing your memory become not so mysterious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mjua2e8Y7k
It is an observation I have made in the past too rdunk. Some of the witnesses are credible enough if they testified to send someone the the electric chair but if they say they have had a UFO encounter then people laugh.
The so called cover up is so complex though. It is not just a cover up of ETs visiting Earth that is causing the confusion unfortunately. It is just not that simple. Partly the confusion derives from several phenomena being treated like one thing. Just because two things can be seen in the sky that are difficult to explain that does not mean the two things are the same class of phenomenon. I will try to explain more of what I have found in future threads.
Quote from: Pimander on December 11, 2013, 01:03:27 AM
The other day when I was meant to get some time on line, my modem/router was damaged. I feel like some cosmic force is against me recently!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img855/4740/rklr.jpg)
;D
Actually, it seems that the biggest part of this problem, is we the people, where ever we are, are willing to "accept" actions by persons and parties that are outright direct lies of fraud and deception about a thing. It is our fault! We continue to allow it. There is absolutely no acceptable basis for governments to lie to the people. When a President lies to the people, or what he says turn out to be "lies", as has ours has recently been doing, he or she should be quickly fired/impeached. When we put up with it, that just encourages more.
Should be a firmly written law that any person working for any position of government employment is absolutely required to be truthful in all matters - ALL MATTERS while being paid by the people, including subcontractors and all military. Any violation would be found in contempt of such laws and immediate dismissal with felonious level charges to be imposed. Right now the lying just seems to be a part of this big game being played, and "the suckers "R" us"! We need to stop the lying, including all of such even for "consideration of what is thought best for the people"!! There is no basis of humanity nor security to cause "lying to the people"!!
Once we can cause that to happen, we likely will start getting a different story on a lot of subjects. We are going to be able to start with NASA pretty soon, as they have been lying to us for quite a long time now!! To catch the liars, we do have to catch them spot on! And when that happens, the cover must come off!!
I agree rdunk but it wont happen.especially if aliens are real.never show all your cards.but it better to say nothing than to lie.
Quote from: ArMaP on December 11, 2013, 01:43:36 AM
(http://imageshack.us/a/img855/4740/rklr.jpg)
;D
he is so cute. i love his einstein hair and rosy cheeks lol and he's always so happy and upbeat
I also like him and his attitude towards his subject, very upbeat! You can feel him. He can keep the head hawk hair cut. Maybe it's a girl thing. I thought he was more believable when he had more normal hair. This style distracts from what he is saying. I keep looking at his hair and laughing. Did he stick a wet finger in a socket? ZAP. ::)
Deuem
Quote from: rdunk on December 11, 2013, 02:22:09 AM
We are going to be able to start with NASA pretty soon, as they have been lying to us for quite a long time now!! To catch the liars, we do have to catch them spot on! And when that happens, the cover must come off!!
rdunk, can you see this area?
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?board=145.0
We were trying to encourage scepticism as far as NASA are concerned but people rarely post there.
Personally, I don't think everyone at NASA are in on a big conspiracy. I do think that NASA have tried to play down certain matters. I am open minded about some of the rumours regarding ET contact. They must know more than us regarding Plasma Critters etc. I also think that some of the "structures" on the Moon look more suspicious than ArMaP believes but have not seen what I'd call proof of ancient ET or human bases (although there have likely been secret Moon missions IMO but not by NASA).
I do think NASA are a waste of money. They have done lots of worthwhile work but it has all cost far too much. If ESA (European Space Agency) had the funding NASA have had we would have a Mars colony by now. :P
If you don't have access to that section let me know and I'll change your permissions. It isn't about Jesus though (joking). :)
Quote from: Pimander on December 11, 2013, 03:21:41 PM
rdunk, can you see this area?
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?board=145.0
We were trying to encourage scepticism as far as NASA are concerned but people rarely post there.
Personally, I don't think everyone at NASA are in on a big conspiracy. I do think that NASA have tried to play down certain matters. I am open minded about some of the rumours regarding ET contact. They must know more than us regarding Plasma Critters etc. I also think that some of the "structures" on the Moon look more suspicious than ArMaP believes but have not seen what I'd call proof of ancient ET or human bases (although there have likely been secret Moon missions IMO but not by NASA).
I do think NASA are a waste of money. They have done lots of worthwhile work but it has all cost far too much. If ESA (European Space Agency) had the funding NASA have had we would have a Mars colony by now. :P
If you don't have access to that section let me know and I'll change your permissions. It isn't about Jesus though (joking). :)
:) - Yes, I do have access to that forum area.
Actually, I have found what I consider to be almost a holy grail for proof of NASA's on-going deception in the photos they release. And this could be huge toward the complete revelation of their lying and fraudulent actions of the first order!! Yes, "fraud is a correct word for NASA's actions"
fraud [frawd]
1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery
3. any deception, trickery, or humbug
4. a person who makes deceitful pretenses; sham; poseur.
I actually am just waiting on Z for photo capability to post it. However, as my information relates to Mars, I have planned to make that post in "The Living Moon" forum area, in the "Living Moon Conspiracy Talk" board, as that seems to fit with the "NASA conspiracy" to be revealed in my post. Pi, I can post it in either place??
Of course, since you mentioned it, I guess I could make such post in the "Religion Area", which could result in more people wanting access to that "MEMBER RESTRICTED AREA"!! :)) (joking)
rdunk, Whichever you post in is cool. I don't think people on this site care about the NASA stuff Z and I were posting so good luck. :)
Quote from: Pimander on December 11, 2013, 01:39:58 AM
http://godfatherpolitics.com/12477/military-test-microwave-weapon-successfully-knocks-electronics/
They would also make most cars and planes inoperable and modern digital cameras. High powered microwaves also have profound effects on consciousness and well known effects like not being frozen to the spot or losing your memory become not so mysterious.
Speaking of microwaves, where is that Kirtland picture that got me banned from ATS by the wife of someone in the AF?
Does anyone know more than very little about Kirtland AFB? (Zorgon, do you have more than your old material?)
Was that the Kirkland AF base Exhuberent and Zorgon ran on ATS?
If so it should be on the main site ?
I saw that already. Wondering who knows what. :)
That is a good question Pim :D
Is this the one Pim ?
Someone had to "Know Something" to share this info that's for sure, as it's not MSM CT fodder thats for sure :D
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Kirtland_AFB_Camouflaged_New.html
The picture was one of a strange atmospheric effect near Kirtland AFB. I think it might be linked to that building but perhaps another Kirtland complex.
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/04images/Kirtland/Camouflage_2/New_Camo_07.png)
Perhaps they are slits for UFOs to fly through. :o
Or for Paul Bennewitz to walk into looking for an alien base? Maybe that is where they recycle conspiracy theorists? Or the might even be openings to allow beam weapons to cool?
Does anyone know?
Quote from: Somamech on December 11, 2013, 05:31:05 PM
Is this the one Pim ?
Someone had to "Know Something" to share this info that's for sure, as it's not MSM CT fodder thats for sure :D
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Kirtland_AFB_Camouflaged_New.html
That building is the "High Energy Microwave Laboratory " building.
(http://www.randomcollection.info/mcf/images/HPM-c.jpg)
and it houses the "Shiva Star" project.
(http://www.kirtland.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/091811-F-3227s-0008.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_Star
Quote from: Pimander on December 11, 2013, 05:59:31 PM
The picture was one of a strange atmospheric effect near Kirtland AFB. I think it might be linked to that building but perhaps another Kirtland complex.
Any atmospheric lighting you see in that area may be due to a laser facility just 2 klicks down the road is the "Starfire Optical Range" which has a pretty high power sodium laser it fires off for testing.
(https://static.panoramio.com.storage.googleapis.com/photos/large/92893499.jpg)
The camouflaged parts were outside the Phillips building nearby. I would not be surprised if there were fighters stored under it for testing against directed energy weapons and similar.
The photo I posted on ATS (which is on the site somewhere LOL) was a more diffused effect. I don't think it was laser and looked more likely a diffused plasma (terrible imprecise term sorry).
When I posted it on ATS I didn't post everything I knew about the picture (Jim Oberg does it all the time to make "believers" look silly). Because two mods tried to say it was a fake picture I made fun of them and they banned me permanently saying I'm a hoaxer. If I am a hoaxer then Jim Oberg is too and he has not been banned for doing exactly what I did on multiple occasions to ATS members.
That is why I suspect that there might be more to that picture as one of the mods involved has Air Force connections. Probably not the case, I think more likely they don't like being called overzealous debunkers but then it was them that called a legit pic a fake. Some people are too keen to push their own agenda and it makes them unfair when they assess evidence.
Anybody want to explain the zig zag in the graph.of that group of pics
Quote from: robomont on December 11, 2013, 07:14:46 PM
Anybody want to explain the zig zag in the graph.of that group of pics
What do you mean?