Pegasus Research Consortium

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWuWzaf0-hs

Anonymous - Homeless people in US deported to camps - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSk6wh9cy1g)

Yup.  Homelessness is a crime.  Geez.  Like the homeless CHOSE to go homeless and are not casualties of the economy.

Gotta love money systems.

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 16, 2014, 08:29:30 AM
Yup.  Homelessness is a crime.  Geez.

That's one thing I don't understand on a (supposedly) democratic country, how can something like loitering be illegal.

QuoteLike the homeless CHOSE to go homeless and are not casualties of the economy.

Some did chose to go homeless.

I am still struggling to understand the cause behind the breakdown in empathy, which topics like these illustrate.

Can you offer any opinions as to what causes that, Armap?

Not got around to watching the video as yet,

But I get the impression that if they can get away with it, the authorities will try to make it almost impossible to escape the system...and even try to stop anyone living either of the land or on the streets...

I am sure a large % of people do fall on bad times due to the way things have gone...

I was watching a TV drama program last night that made me think... where someone was planning to release a virus to Kill millions of people.. They said when they were born around 1950s..I think it was that there were less than 2 billion population....Now we have 7 billion.

They said we could not continue with such a large population for very long until resources runs out...like OIL as an eg....

Looking at how some aspects of Life are...I can partially agree that some things seem for the worst for many average people...

But the other side is Human progress has evolved in terms of technology quite remarkably at a faster pace than ever in history..

Maybe Ok for the brighter and well off....but not good in many ways for those who feel that they have too much competition today in life to even get an half decent job and have a reasonable less stressful living..


this was something that they tried to do in London recently with ref to the homeless ..but at the moment have had to stop it..


http://news.yahoo.com/outcry-over-anti-homeless-spikes-london-141126295.html

QuoteSome did chose to go homeless.

 :( Well isn't this a scarey bit of infringement. I always thought we have rights because we are human citizens not because we do, or do not have a home.
  The lack of compassion, empathy, sympathy and humanity is not really a big surprise. The various major medias have been involved with creating a desensitized population for many years. Their efforts to do this have also been accelerated in recent times. Scan through your TV channels and check out the type of desensitizing shows, scenes and such that are shown to us now.

whatthehey

Quote from: ArMaP on June 16, 2014, 01:56:17 PM
Some did chose to go homeless.

I have to agree, there's quite a spectrum of homeless.  I suspect there's more "hard-luck" homeless than those who've made long strings of bad decisions or just selectively dropped out of society.

Quote from: petrus4 on June 16, 2014, 02:13:20 PM
I am still struggling to understand the cause behind the breakdown in empathy, which topics like these illustrate.

Can you offer any opinions as to what causes that, Armap?

I think it's just human nature, the same human nature that created those anti-loitering laws that now can be used for something like this.

Does anyone know how old are those laws?

I can give you a view from a former corrections officer and law enforcement officer view in our county here in Florida.  Some are homeless by choice.  Some are homeless because of the economy.  And let me tell you jobs for those who do not have technical skills on the Space Coast of Florida are not easy to come by and that included me for awhile.  No I wasn't homeless but we took in my daughter and her 4 children and my younger son...thats 6 people plus me and my wife.  Daughter had to go on food stamps for awhile, she went back to college for medical assisting and graduated with her second degree.  Thank goodness her ex paid his support regularly.  My younger son lost his job and then I lost mine.  I am retired law enforcement with a pension where 1/2 my pension goes for medical, dental, vision and prescription for 3 of us.  My wife runs a licensed daycare in the home.  So we had 8 people living there under one roof...now down to 6 sincee 2 of the grandchildren are off at college (they found their scholarships)...none of us could afford to pay their way.  Since then we have all found jobs that finally pay decently to get us out of the hole.

We do have private entities that help out the homeless and they are doing what they can.  Some of our law enforcement officers steer the homeless in a direction to the private entities to get them some help.  Some of the law enforcement people dip in their own pockets.  One in particular carries stuffed animals to give to homeless children with their parents.  She carries donated blankets in her patrol car during the winter.  Its not the government that really helps but the private entities do the most.  Most of our law enforcement people do not deliberately go after homeless people but some do and the cop that does that doesn't deserve to wear the badge.

Only just recently did one of our cities in Brevard County Florida decide they did not want the homeless downtown and are THINKING of doing something about it.  The city hasn't determined what to do yet but the homeless are not treated badly for the most part.  Some have undergone foreclosures and still have jobs.  Some have neither house nor job because of the loss of a job.  Most on our county are good people who have just lost it all and trying to make ends meet.  Right now very few are criminals (right now anyway).

So I can only speak for where I live and not anywhere else.

Oh, by the way...when I was a young tike I lived in the back of a car with my parents while dad worked and we ate peanut butter sandwiches and picked up meals at the local salvation army.  Eventually we got back on our feet.  So I have personally been there and my wife and I help where and when we can.  We share.

Quote from: spacemaverick on June 16, 2014, 11:31:51 PM
One in particular carries stuffed animals to give to homeless children with their parents.

That was something I wasn't expecting, I don't have any recollection of ever seeing, either in real life or on TV, entire homeless families.

Quote from: ArMaP on June 17, 2014, 12:23:04 AM
That was something I wasn't expecting, I don't have any recollection of ever seeing, either in real life or on TV, entire homeless families.

They do exist.  In my early years my parents and I.  I have even encountered some myself.  I don't know the answer but it sure isn't through the government.  Habitat for humanity helps but it seems things are getting worse.

Quote from: ArMaP on June 16, 2014, 01:56:17 PM
Some did chose to go homeless.

So?  The vast majority did not.  Geez. 

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 17, 2014, 08:20:59 AM
So?  The vast majority did not.  Geez.

You were not talking of a majority in this sentence.

QuoteLike the homeless CHOSE to go homeless

Quote from: ArMaP on June 17, 2014, 09:24:38 AM
You were not talking of a majority in this sentence.

How You liking those nits You're picking?

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 17, 2014, 09:58:32 AM
How You liking those nits You're picking?

How do you like those broad baseless assumptions you make?

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 17, 2014, 09:58:32 AM
How You liking those nits You're picking?

Well, maybe a need a little English lesson. :)

Could you please explain what "Like the homeless CHOSE to go homeless" is referring to?
Is it referring to all homeless in general or is it referring to a specific part?

You see, in Portuguese, when we say something like "Like the homeless CHOSE to go homeless" we are referring to all in general, as the subject of the sentence (homeless) is not specifying any specific sub-category of the subject.

Thanks in advance for a possible explanation. :)

Quote from: ArMaP on June 17, 2014, 02:06:34 PM
Well, maybe a need a little English lesson. :)

Could you please explain what "Like the homeless CHOOSE to go homeless" is referring to?
Is it referring to all homeless in general or is it referring to a specific part?

Writing this "Like the homeless CHOOSE to go homeless" is a sarcastic statement in English ArMaP.
Meaning that they did not get to this position willingly. Very few people in the world [IMHO] would willingly want to be homeless, especially families. But being homeless can happen to any family from a variety of reasons. Like a Tornado that took out your entire Village or Town, including where you worked. Some people also just give up on the problems of life and seek out an existence in this arena. We used to call them Hobos.

Like you want [me] to step in front of a moving car?

Like you want [me] to drink poison?

Neither of which you would want to have happen but do, no matter how hard you try and avoid them it happens to people without choice.[/me][/me]

I'm currrently raising awareness for the anti- homless 'spikes' campaign in the UK.

'Anti-Homless' spikes have been rolled out by large corporations,  and councils. 
The tactic utilises spiked floors and surfaces to discourage settlement of a Homeless person.

I haven't gone into the history yet, but these thing may already be in place in America too... especially considering at least one state is criminalising helping the poor. Pure evil legislation.

Quote from: deuem on June 17, 2014, 02:51:08 PM

Writing this "Like the homeless CHOOSE to go homeless" is a sarcastic statement in English ArMaP.
Meaning that they did not get to this position willingly.

And this is what ArMaP and I disagree with.  There are plenty of homeless who put themselves in that position either by choice of dropping out of society, or just bad choices that landed them homeless by their own fault.  Bad choice is still a choice.

Like I said before, I think there are more "hard luck" homeless than homeless out of choice.  But to make a broad wide sweeping statement that all homeless are somehow innocent victims .... that's just either ignorant or delusional.

Quote from: deuem on June 17, 2014, 02:51:08 PM
Writing this "Like the homeless CHOOSE to go homeless" is a sarcastic statement in English ArMaP.

Thanks for the explanation. :)

But I understand that part, the part to which I responded was the use of the "the homeless", as, to me, that points to "the homeless" as a whole, meaning all of the homeless and not a just a part, even if it's the majority.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Quote from: Sinny on June 17, 2014, 02:59:42 PM
I'm currrently raising awareness for the anti- homless 'spikes' campaign in the UK.

'Anti-Homless' spikes have been rolled out by large corporations,  and councils. 
The tactic utilises spiked floors and surfaces to discourage settlement of a Homeless person.

I haven't gone into the history yet, but these thing may already be in place in America too... especially considering at least one state is criminalising helping the poor. Pure evil legislation.

All the benches on our local beach have dividers to keep them (homeless presumably)from laying down on them..sad...it is here.

Quote from: ArMaP on June 17, 2014, 02:06:34 PM
Well, maybe a need a little English lesson. :)

Could you please explain what "Like the homeless CHOSE to go homeless" is referring to?
Is it referring to all homeless in general or is it referring to a specific part?

You see, in Portuguese, when we say something like "Like the homeless CHOSE to go homeless" we are referring to all in general, as the subject of the sentence (homeless) is not specifying any specific sub-category of the subject.

Thanks in advance for a possible explanation. :)

Yes, all in general, not withstanding the exceptions.  VIRTUALLY all homeless DID NOT make that choice.  Situations forced Them into homelessness.

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 17, 2014, 09:09:06 PM
Yes, all in general, not withstanding the exceptions.

Ah, the exceptions...

QuoteVIRTUALLY all homeless DID NOT make that choice.  Situations forced Them into homelessness.

I don't know how's the situation in the US (but I'm sure someone can provide some statistics about it), but the last Portuguese statistics about it (from 2009) I could find are like this:

Of the 2,133 people identified as homeless, 33.1% were in that situation because of "family rupture" (I don't know if there's a better expression for that, that's the direct translation), 22.3% because of unemployment and 20.8% because of personal reasons.

In case someone is interested in it, here's the link to the newspaper article (http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/maioria-dos-semabrigo-sao-homens-entre-os-30-e-49-anos-e-com-6%C2%BA-ano-de-escolaridade-1487050) (in Portuguese) where I found these numbers.

Edit: I found some statistics (http://usmayors.org/pressreleases/documents/hungerhomelessnessreport_121208.pdf) from the US.  :)

I guess maybe I shouldn't comment on this cause I'll probably upset some people but here goes. There's no way I cannot find a way to support myself and my family. There's no way I cannot find a job. It may not be the job I want or prefer but I will find work. I've never been on government assistance because I'm a free man capable of taking care of myself. I've lost jobs before. I found a job 100 miles away. I would get up at 4:00 am and drive to work, work a 12 hr shift, drive home, spend an hour with my family then go work at a gas station in the evening. And I still was barely making what I was before. The point is where there is a will there's a way.

There are those that are weak, that succumb to the stress of life and surrender. I understand that some people need help. Most major cities have shelters. Talk to the people that actually work there. They'll tell you that a great number don't want to stay in shelters they'd prefer to roam and panhandle. The free life. Single women with children are entirely different situation.

I can tell you this if I owned a business I wouldn't won't these people camping in front of my store chasing away business, deficating everywhere and littering.

Maybe a bad thing but the Homeless stats need to be put in a chart for the reason why. People are sent homeless for many reasons.

Fire, Tornado's, Hurricanes, Earthquakes, War and so on. These are the unlucky. The Dis-placed!

Ones that make bad mistakes in life from greed or bad decisions. This includes things like gambling and drug addiction.

Ones that just drop out of life because they are tired of the system of work-pay, work-pay. Achieve no gain.

And others that no matter how hard they try can not get accepted back into life.

Ones that have a mental problem and no hospital will help them.

Onse that have a disability. No arms or no legs or blind with no help.

Some get to this point and just, simply like it and stay there. No work, no bills little worries.

The scary thing about being homeless, is that any one of us can be put in that position in a few minutes. It is like dieing, we are all only a few heartbeats away from it at any given point in time. Just nobody knows what the future holds for each person.

Not counting the dis-placed homeless, The true Homeless problem is for the people that have given up on life or life gave up on them and they can't get out of it no matter what they try and do. It seems like this is a case where you need a whip in one hand and a bible in the other. Who gets which hand is left up to society.

Id say that was quite a accurate description Deuem,

I agree that it can happen to most average people who have little support from elsewhere (Family, Friends) due to various reasons that you describe.

Anyone who gets some sort of mental problems who does not want to chance disclosing it to their Doctors , employers or who ever, could end up almost feeling helpless and soon fall into despair...The Stress that some people have to endure at times can certainly take its toll, even the strongest of us...let alone the weaker people...

Burn out has been another concern that due to what may seem to the individual to seem extreme overwork or stressful conditions can take it out of some...

What may seem stress to some may seems normal to others.

From my generation, if one had to work beyond normal 8 hrs that may have felt a concern unless one wanted overtime...

The later generations who have had to compete much harder in recent years...and work jobs that are longer hours etc...may have no problems with it...BUT who knows if they continue at it , they may also later burn out...

If any of us run into any mental or certain psychological issues, I am sure many of us would not want to admit it or to want to see a Doctor and have it on our records..As things are now some employers may look at ones medical records for such things and avoid employing anyone who does not meet their requirements....

NONE of us who have been used to what seemed normal conditions want to have to work harder or take other jobs if we can help it, I am sure ...

But I know that many do and will in order to maintain their standard of living and help their family if they are able to do so..

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on June 18, 2014, 12:55:43 AM
I guess maybe I shouldn't comment on this cause I'll probably upset some people but here goes. There's no way I cannot find a way to support myself and my family. There's no way I cannot find a job. It may not be the job I want or prefer but I will find work. I've never been on government assistance because I'm a free man capable of taking care of myself. I've lost jobs before. I found a job 100 miles away. I would get up at 4:00 am and drive to work, work a 12 hr shift, drive home, spend an hour with my family then go work at a gas station in the evening. And I still was barely making what I was before. The point is where there is a will there's a way.

When One has lost EVERYTHING, has no car (would You be driving that car if You had lost that before a job offer was proffered?), is arthritic and CAN'T do most jobs, is old competing with 20- and 30-somethings, in this economy, having the will does NOT equal a way.  75000+ applications and 8 years after losing My last job, believing all the while that the next app will be the job I get, having an INTENSE will to make it happen, the way has not shown itself.  If not for the best of friends (Thor), I would be homeless - and was for nearly a year.

Don't buy the crap about will and way.  Many DIE not finding that way despite a very strong will.  Just because You were lucky enough (lucky to be strong enough, young enough, still having a car to use, lucky to click with a prospective employer, to have work You can do be in demand) does NOT mean that We ALL are that lucky.  It's poor logic to presume that YOUR luck equates to a lack of will on the part of Those far less lucky.

If there are 100 People, all with extremely strong will to find a way, and there are 90 ways (jobs/opportunities), 10 WILL NOT SUCCEED.  Period.

QuoteThere are those that are weak, that succumb to the stress of life and surrender. I understand that some people need help. Most major cities have shelters. Talk to the people that actually work there. They'll tell you that a great number don't want to stay in shelters they'd prefer to roam and panhandle. The free life. Single women with children are entirely different situation.

Having actually BEEN in several shelters, I'll tell You right now, MOST are looking for work, many are displaced from "The American Dream" by such things as Thor is fighting:  house grabs by the banks.  MOST lost jobs and can't find new ones.  MOST have no interest in "panhandling."  They want Their lives back.

QuoteI can tell you this if I owned a business I wouldn't won't these people camping in front of my store chasing away business, deficating everywhere and littering.

So Let's solve for poverty.  Since just now on this planet We have what it would take to do so.

I can understand views similar to Sarge, for people who have or are able to deal ok with Life's stresses OK as to how they may feel..and yes if I was a business owner, I would not be happy with Homeless sleeping in the front door of my business...

I suspect that sometimes, yes that we would have some who sleep there could dirty the place...especially if they get drunk or end up on drugs, But also a Lot do have some respect not to do so.

My opinion today in the UK where I live and probably in the USA and many Countries now...is that they have opened up the Immigration laws to allow people in to replace those who have either not agreed to go along and take low paid work...or to replace the workforce where skills and abilities had become lost due to the long periods of recession that took their toll over the last 30 years..

For myself and my generation, I find it an insult to my own race / people who have been given much less chances in life and have had to allow others to come in and replace them...As for many of the immigrants, they have or had not too long ago found better conditions...and better work than maybe what they had within there own country.

Yes, they may be very good hard workers,many certainly are an employers dream.. yes they may be nice people and yes they may make our economy better...and yes some are better qualified or cleverer than many of our own people. and some no doubt benefit the country and economy in many other ways.

BUT My believe is that our Governments have destroyed many of its original race of people...That now their  options are now of taking low paid unsatisfying work , competing with younger and other races of people even for low paid work..of which employers still treat poorly and want their moneys worth and in some cases work them just as hard for low pay where burn out for the older people is an issue in trying to keep up...and being felt or left feeling destroyed and humiliated.

The Governments past decisions in order to obtain low cost labour has left its own people for a set period untrained and trained to accept low pay and to accept immigration as the norm..

Admittedly a LOT of its own people have welcomed it and accepted it..
But its also a threat to many ...

I suppose its OK until it may happen to us, or the individual, then we may start to reconsider..

I am Sure anyone in other countries would equally feel similar if it was happening to them and their people...

Something has gone badly wrong in my opinion in recent years, or maybe it is a punishment for past history...coming back to haunt its people...

Where I live now in parts has almost become a series of various cultures that 25 years ago, was a whole different set of similar race of  people...
Now in parts, I think that I am the foreigner...When I go to London..I just can not believe how many different nationalities that I see living there....and NOT just tourists..

The way its going the British white race will be severely reduced by the next generation....and I find that a huge concern..

I don't like the "race" card.  We are all Humans on this planet, and governments should not be basing Their choices on "race."  We are the HUMAN race, with mild variations amongst Us (color, size, formation of the same features, etc.).

As long as We divide Ourselves ("race," country, etc.), We WILL be conquered.

Its Ok saying that until you see a street become taken over almost by 50 % of another race or more that I have seen in certain areas....There is a Limit that one feels is acceptable in my opinion....Schools now cater more for other religions and cultures than they do for its own people in certain areas... that to me is unacceptable.. its gone well past the acceptability level..its also become a cultural issue...I do not think its right to have schools teaching its own race of children having to learn about other races & religions in order for the NEW way things have now gone..The own race of children have now been put into a complete new outlook to what they had 25 yrs ago...

I am sure that we all would have a level or point that we feel is acceptable....Question is where do we draw the line as a country !..

Should we allow 50% or more of other races to replace our own ??? in any country...Would we be OK with that ?

I can see however that maybe this has become the norm in parts of the USA and some other areas....

I do not want to come over racist...I find most people of cultures OK...But I will draw a line when it becomes a threat to my own race...Culture and country...as I am sure all races would do..

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 18, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
I don't like the "race" card.  We are all Humans on this planet, and governments should not be basing Their choices on "race."  We are the HUMAN race, with mild variations amongst Us (color, size, formation of the same features, etc.).

As long as We divide Ourselves ("race," country, etc.), We WILL be conquered.

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 18, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
I don't like the "race" card.  We are all Humans on this planet, and governments should not be basing Their choices on "race."  We are the HUMAN race, with mild variations amongst Us (color, size, formation of the same features, etc.).

As long as We divide Ourselves ("race," country, etc.), We WILL be conquered.

This time I fully agree with you. :)

Any way of dividing people is just that, a way of really dividing us and make us look different from the people in any other arbitrary group.

Have some virtual gold. ;)

Quote from: astr0144 on June 18, 2014, 10:07:55 AM
Its Ok saying that until you see a street become taken over almost by 50 % of another race or more that I have seen in certain areas....There is a Limit that one feels is acceptable in my opinion....

I suppose so.

QuoteI am sure that we all would have a level or point that we feel is acceptable....Question is where do we draw the line as a country !..

To me, the question is "should we draw that line"?

QuoteShould we allow 50% or more of other races to replace our own ??? in any country...Would we be OK with that ?

What, something like no more than 50% of Scottish people in England?

QuoteI do not want to come over racist...I find most people of cultures OK...But I will draw a line when it becomes a threat to my own race...Culture and country...as I am sure all races would do..

Well, you do look like a racist when you are acting like one.

Quote from: astr0144 on June 18, 2014, 10:07:55 AM
Its Ok saying that until you see a street become taken over almost by 50 % of another race or more that I have seen in certain areas....There is a Limit that one feels is acceptable in my opinion....Schools now cater more for other religions and cultures than they do for its own people in certain areas... that to me is unacceptable.. its gone well past the acceptability level..its also become a cultural issue...I do not think its right to have schools teaching its own race of children having to learn about other races & religions in order for the NEW way things have now gone..The own race of children have now been put into a complete new outlook to what they had 25 yrs ago...

Ummm....  What "other race?"  Pleiadians?  Maybe a race from the Horsehead nebula?  If They are from Earth, high probability They're Humans.

Quote from: deuem on June 18, 2014, 02:28:51 AM
Maybe a bad thing but the Homeless stats need to be put in a chart for the reason why. People are sent homeless for many reasons.

From the PDF I linked to on the previous page.

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/Homeless2.jpg)

Yes I may be seen as one nasty Racist who hates all other cultures, nationalities and creeds....when many or maybe most of us are a mix of several ! including me  ???  I am a total hippocrypt..

I suppose most things are about degree..

Maybe one could also see race as a form even to an individual if we have issues with them..not just from another country, which I suppose has always been the case and always will be...as we all disagree with one thing or another..

Would you be Ok if your village or area was changed to house say a complete different race or your work employer if you have one,  took on another race and replaced the existing work force with  immigrants who would work for half the money.  Would they seem any sort of concern then...or if they had large families and obtained certain benefits and housing that ones own people cannot even get..

This is the sort of thing that I am referring to...

But if you would be Ok being taken over completely by another culture then that's your choice to decide...

I was also adding this as being a another reason that may lead some people to become homeless..if jobs are taken by immigrants or they have issues in relation to certain things...

I will say that I have at times been treated MUCH better by other races than my own....Like some other races better than some of my own..
and seen bullying maybe more from my own race which I dislike...

I am not sure if these views are also racist ??? maybe depends upon ones view  :)

QuoteShould we allow 50% or more of other races to replace our own ??? in any country...Would we be OK with that ?
What, something like no more than 50% of Scottish people in England?

Well that is a valid point as an eg...yes the Uk is a mix of variation dependent upon a border ! depending upon how one views it..

Quote
I do not want to come over racist...I find most people of cultures OK...But I will draw a line when it becomes a threat to my own race...Culture and country...as I am sure all races would do..
Well, you do look like a racist when you are acting like one.

It may well be that we are all a mix of ETs as Matrix has suggested...

I may become ET racist if they arrive or are here to harrass us  :)

QuoteUmmm....  What "other race?"  Pleiadians?  Maybe a race from the Horsehead nebula?  If They are from Earth, high probability They're Humans.

Quote from: Amaterasu on June 18, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
I don't like the "race" card.  We are all Humans on this planet, and governments should not be basing Their choices on "race."  We are the HUMAN race, with mild variations amongst Us (color, size, formation of the same features, etc.).

As long as We divide Ourselves ("race," country, etc.), We WILL be conquered.

I don't view division as being society's main problem, as much as I think our lack of willingness to self-manage is.  Feminism (as one example) isn't so much of a problem because it encourages women to hate men, but because it encourages women to view themselves as perpetual victims of someone else.

In other words, if people self-managed, division would not be an issue; because the tendency to think of ourselves as victims is more or less the entire reason why different minorities exist in the first place.  I absolutely believe in equality, but I don't believe in the civil rights movement, more or less in general.  Minorities do not want equality; they want social dominance of their particular group, at the expense of others. 

Quote from: astr0144 on June 18, 2014, 06:37:41 PM
Would you be Ok if your village or area was changed to house say a complete different race or your work employer if you have one,  took on another race and replaced the existing work force with  immigrants who would work for half the money.

I would be as OK with it as if they were from the same race as me.

QuoteWould they seem any sort of concern then...or if they had large families and obtained certain benefits and housing that ones own people cannot even get..

In the same circumstances? I wouldn't be OK with any specific group having better conditions than any other, unless it was to compensate for something.

QuoteBut if you would be Ok being taken over completely by another culture then that's your choice to decide...

Culture is a living thing, that's how we have change since we used only sticks and stones. :)

QuoteI was also adding this as being a another reason that may lead some people to become homeless..if jobs are taken by immigrants or they have issues in relation to certain things...

That's possible, like any other reason.

ArMaP, wait until it happens to you! Then you will understand. I too lived in a city that was taken over by scum. And before you go there it was not Black people. We all got along fine. We all lived in a nice city until the locust moved in and destroyed it. Went from no locks on the doors or windows to bars and many locks. Went from leaving the keys in the car to having no car. The locust came in and raped our city. Wait till it happens to you. We are not talking poverty here, we are talking being taken over. Wait till it happens to you! You will sing a different song then. Yes we might all be the same race but only the good people say that. To them, you are just a nice ripe apple ready to be picked.

I have seen your nice view off your porch with a clean view of the outside. Wait until it needs bars and wire to keep them out and even that doesn't work. You will sing a different song then. The story of Astros is real life. You just have not felt the pain yet. You will, they are after all the apples....

Quote from: deuem on June 19, 2014, 01:10:33 AM
ArMaP, wait until it happens to you! Then you will understand.

Maybe I will, oif it happens.

QuoteI too lived in a city that was taken over by scum. And before you go there it was not Black people.

Was it people from a different race/country/culture?

QuoteI have seen your nice view off your porch with a clean view of the outside.

You have? That's interesting, as I live on the fourth floor of an apartment building with no porch.

QuoteYou will, they are after all the apples....

Who are "they"?

Petrus, need I remind you that women have been second class citizens throughout much of the world and throughout much of history, and today we still are. Women were 'allowed' to move up in the world.... Prossibly to the future detriment of our dear men.

We can't walk around topless, unless our naked images are being payed for.
And we still see a large working wage deficiency..

Besides that, I have just finished writing a paper on the effects of 'Diversity'.
I concluded the UK is being divided by 'Diversity'.

New stats suggest 1/4 UK children now have English recorded as a second language.. Make of that what you will.

The actual British peoples, have suffered greatly at the hands of open immigration policy. And without reverting to 'Islamaphobia'.... I can safely state, this is no longer a Nation of English, Celts and Welsh.

White British people (stats did not state specific white groups), WILL be a minority in the UK in mere decades. Make of that what you will.

Of course, it's all down to the Elites... Doesn't stop it being irritating however.

Quote from: ArMaP on June 19, 2014, 02:17:29 AM
Was it people from a different race/country/culture? All 3
You have? That's interesting, as I live on the fourth floor of an apartment building with no porch. Didn't you post some soap bubble photos off your balcony?
Who are "they"? Which ever scum steals your apples

Quote from: deuem on June 19, 2014, 12:17:31 PM
Didn't you post some soap bubble photos off your balcony?

I did, but I thought that a porch and a balcony were different things.  :)

It is interesting regarding the various opinions of everyone here.  It seems the opinions are based on experience with homeless people in each persons geographical area.  For some it is a number of cultures or types of people (married with partner, single, families and others are just a certain ethnic origin.  It is interesting how each of our life experiences may tend to form our various opinions.  I have seen life from the homeless standpoint and helps me identify with the homeless people.  All I can say is that some are homeless for whatever reason THEY made their own decision.  I decided that I was not going to stay at that level and I didn't.

The homeless have formed their own camps outside any government camps.  They do find support in numbers of themselves and businesses tend to not want them around.  The poor and homeless will be around no matter what we do.  Having been there I don't mind helping them as long as they are trying.  I have seen plenty in my years in the law enforcement career to at least make informed evaluations of those people I have dealt with in the community and the jails.  I don't always get it right but I try.

Quote from: Sinny on June 19, 2014, 08:35:05 AM
Petrus, need I remind you that women have been second class citizens throughout much of the world and throughout much of history, and today we still are. Women were 'allowed' to move up in the world.... Prossibly to the future detriment of our dear men.

I do not condone inequality anywhere that it exists.  For me, however, that is different from saying that I dislike feminism as a movement; which I do.  Wage gaps and the rape epidemic (both of which I acknowledge the existence of) are both problems which need to be resolved.  I consider the movement itself, conversely, to be both over-emotive and excessively vindictive.

QuoteWe can't walk around topless, unless our naked images are being payed for.

As a man, I can't walk around with my pants off, either; and that is because the penis is considered a sexual organ.  I consider public nudity to be a highly immature and frivolous thing to waste activists' energy on; there are several entirely legitimate issues on which they could focus, as noted.

QuoteNew stats suggest 1/4 UK children now have English recorded as a second language.. Make of that what you will.

As long as the first language is not uniformly Arabic, I have no objection.  In some parts of the UK, the first language should rightfully be Gaelic, in my opinion.

QuoteThe actual British peoples, have suffered greatly at the hands of open immigration policy. And without reverting to 'Islamaphobia'.... I can safely state, this is no longer a Nation of English, Celts and Welsh.

While others might reprimand you for being Islamophobic, I am not among them.  I regard Islam as a barbaric pestilence; in my opinion, it is directly analogous to the Borg Collective.  The Muslims are being used by the cabal at the current time, in exactly the same manner that my avatar's species were by the demons, during the Orcish invasion of Azeroth.  They are harbingers of Chaos; a vanguard or advance wave intended to exhaust the population sufficiently, that any potential resistance to the world government which the cabal want to implement, will thereby be removed.

Given the nature of Mirshalak and her people, (and to a lesser extent, my own nature) it is probably deeply hypocritical that I dislike Islam to the extent that I do.  From what I have read about Mohammed, he and Grom Hellscream had much in common.

Nonetheless, what I realise is that it is not volatility or passion which I object to, (indeed, how could I?) but tyranny.  Islam is first and foremost a religion of subjugation, and its' very name reveals that fact.

Quote from: astr0144 on June 18, 2014, 06:37:41 PM
Would you be Ok if your village or area was changed to house say a complete different race or your work employer if you have one,  took on another race and replaced the existing work force with  immigrants who would work for half the money.  Would they seem any sort of concern then...or if they had large families and obtained certain benefits and housing that ones own people cannot even get..

What if the "immigrants" were from Your same group?  They just need to survive and are willing to take half the pay?  Would that make a difference in how You would feel?  If so, why?

QuoteBut if you would be Ok being taken over completely by another culture then that's your choice to decide...

What do You mean, "taken over?"

QuoteI was also adding this as being a another reason that may lead some people to become homeless..if jobs are taken by immigrants or they have issues in relation to certain things...

So...  You're blaming the companies who, motivated by profit - and even mandated by law that profit is the only concern (all corporations have that mandate...) - hire People willing to work for less, and not the desperate People looking for a solution in Their lives, right?

QuoteIt may well be that we are all a mix of ETs as Matrix has suggested...

I may become ET racist if they arrive or are here to harrass us  :)

I am certain We are part ET dna. 

Quote from: ArMaP on June 18, 2014, 09:36:31 PM
I would be as OK with it as if they were from the same race as me.
In the same circumstances? I wouldn't be OK with any specific group having better conditions than any other, unless it was to compensate for something.
Culture is a living thing, that's how we have change since we used only sticks and stones. :)
That's possible, like any other reason.

Gold for You, ArMaP.

Quote from: spacemaverick on June 19, 2014, 06:31:16 PM
The poor and homeless will be around no matter what we do.

I disagree.  We CAN solve for poverty and homelessness.  But it takes virtually all of Us knowing there is a solution.  And then going for it.

"Homeless" is a matter of fact, whereas "poor" is simply a word of relativity. There are some homeless people who subsequently were found to be rich, and there are "people" who consider themselves to be poor, but still live in decent homes.

This is a bit of a continuing farcical discussion because it is a never-ending theoretical discussion of life and human relationships. There are in fact gillions of reasons, emanating from - mental, physical, parentage, race, government, depressions, financial, and adinfinitum, that begets people living like people do.....in all ways imaginable, up to and including death.

Is it so hard for some people to understand that life is just that, life in every way? For some good, for some not so good, and for some bad bad bad. Absolutely NOTHING can eliminate peoples' response or non response to all of the varying physical and associative circumstances! No, not even TAP!

That is not saying that people cannot be helped! But trying to change the world for someone that really just needs a biscuit is going to do nothing for the one that is starving.

And, while many of you do not accept this fact, a primary factor with bad things in the lives of people are related directly to the spiritually evil that resides in this world, for a time. 

Doing things to help people who need help is a good thing. Doing things for people who could/should be doing for themselves is not a good thing - rather it keeps them from doing for themselves.

I guess the big question is (back to the title) is putting homeless into camps true and how widespread is this practice?

Quote from: spacemaverick on June 20, 2014, 08:56:58 PM
I guess the big question is (back to the title) is putting homeless into camps true and how widespread is this practice?

Don't know, can't get YT here. But I guess it might depend on the camps. If they have barbed wire and gun turrets or green fields with flowers, food and re-education facilities.

If I see any shower rooms with horizontal ovens I think I would make a run for the wire. Better shot than Mr Crispy.

We all know that they took a lot of Nazi high ranking officers into the states and had them work for TPTB. Death camps are their way of getting the last ounce of energy out of a human. But maybe, just maybe the camps are for the betterment of the homeless and the Gov is really thinking of great ways to help people. NOT!

The original video at the beginning of this thread was removed by the user so it says.  I will look for more videos and see what I can come up with for this subject.

Quote from: petrus4 on June 20, 2014, 12:38:32 PM
I do not condone inequality anywhere that it exists.  For me, however, that is different from saying that I dislike feminism as a movement; which I do.  Wage gaps and the rape epidemic (both of which I acknowledge the existence of) are both problems which need to be resolved.  I consider the movement itself, conversely, to be both over-emotive and excessively vindictive.

As a man, I can't walk around with my pants off, either; and that is because the penis is considered a sexual organ.  I consider public nudity to be a highly immature and frivolous thing to waste activists' energy on; there are several entirely legitimate issues on which they could focus, as noted.

As long as the first language is not uniformly Arabic, I have no objection.  In some parts of the UK, the first language should rightfully be Gaelic, in my opinion.

While others might reprimand you for being Islamophobic, I am not among them.  I regard Islam as a barbaric pestilence; in my opinion, it is directly analogous to the Borg Collective.  The Muslims are being used by the cabal at the current time, in exactly the same manner that my avatar's species were by the demons, during the Orcish invasion of Azeroth.  They are harbingers of Chaos; a vanguard or advance wave intended to exhaust the population sufficiently, that any potential resistance to the world government which the cabal want to implement, will thereby be removed.

Given the nature of Mirshalak and her people, (and to a lesser extent, my own nature) it is probably deeply hypocritical that I dislike Islam to the extent that I do.  From what I have read about Mohammed, he and Grom Hellscream had much in common.

Nonetheless, what I realise is that it is not volatility or passion which I object to, (indeed, how could I?) but tyranny.  Islam is first and foremost a religion of subjugation, and its' very name reveals that fact.

Feminism is a dangerous movement,  I'll state that.
In regardsto the 'topless' subject, I personally wouldn't walk around topless - howeever the princible of the current 'control system' needs to be addressed.

That control system is: 'Illegal unless it's profitible'.
Hereein,I also only stated breasts, I consider lower genitals to be sexualisation, and indesent unless exposed in the correct contexts.

Men can expose the pecs, but women can't?
Maybe it detracts from their Phallic worship..?

Looking around my immediate social circles, and the 1.5 Million people I share my City with... Islamaphobia is rampent,  and. Right-wing groups are emerging. 
It's a contant effort to remain objective during this. Period of turmoil to ensure all energy is directed where the blame truley lies... At the Eliters.

There are weapons of mass distractions everywhere...

The New World Order is moving at speeds we cannot comprehend, always remember:

If not now, when? If not you, who?

QuoteIn regards to the 'topless' subject, I personally wouldn't walk around topless

Neither would I now. It is a scary thought. Meaning that there are a lot of people that shouldn't do this. Men and women included. But I would say that any place a man is allowed to do this it should be Ok for the girls to do the same thing if they wish to. When it is hot, it is hot for all. 

Now I'm having dreams of Homeless topless people everywhere. It could go nightmare! I also never thought of this as a money issue until your post. Who would watch porn or buy mags if all you needed to do was to go outside on a hot day. So maybe the same industry that flaunts sex is the same one behind the curtains that clamps down on it. Pay to play, they make money. No pay, no money.

It's interesting that you state you didn't notice the money issue.
In this game, you'll learn all sorts by just following the money.
However, we're not to be blamed for that... It goes to show how they have perverted and distorted all of our social morals over a period of time..

Sometimes I have to stop and think, and re-evaluate life choices, sometimes the things my peers would have me do are immoral... And the thing I find moral are scorned at.

As Plato put it: "Those who are able to  see beyond the shadows and the lies of their culture, will never be uunderstood, let alone believed by the masses".

Quote from: spacemaverick on June 21, 2014, 05:56:50 AM
The original video at the beginning of this thread was removed by the user so it says.  I will look for more videos and see what I can come up with for this subject.

Fixed 24 June 2014
tfw

In 33 U.S. Cities, It's Illegal to Do the One Thing That Helps the Homeless Most (http://mic.com/articles/91055/in-33-u-s-cities-it-s-illegal-to-do-the-one-thing-that-helps-the-homeless-most)

By Tom McKay
June 12, 2014

The news: In case the United States' problem with homelessness wasn't bad enough, a forthcoming National Coalition for the Homeless (NCH) report says that 33 U.S. cities now ban or are considering banning the practice of sharing food with homeless people.

Four municipalities (Raleigh, N.C.; Myrtle Beach, S.C.; Birmingham, Ala.; and Daytona Beach, Fla.) have recently gone as far as to fine, remove or threaten to throw in jail private groups that work to serve food to the needy instead of letting government-run services do the job.

Why it's happening: The bans are officially instituted to prevent government-run anti-homelessness programs from being diluted. But in practice, many of the same places that are banning food-sharing are the same ones that have criminalized homelessness with harsh and punitive measures.

Essentially, they're designed to make being homeless within city limits so unpleasant that the downtrodden have no choice but to leave. Tampa, for example, criminalizes sleeping or storing property in public. Columbia, South Carolina, passed a measure that essentially would have empowered police to ship all homeless people out of town. Detroit PD officers have been accused of illegally taking the homeless and driving them out of the city.

The U.N. even went so far as to single the United States out in a report on human rights (http://www.nlchp.org/INT_CCPR_COC_USA_16838_E.pdf), saying criminalization of homelessness in the United States "raises concerns of discrimination and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment."

"I'm just simply baffled by the idea that people can be without shelter in a country, and then be treated as criminals for being without shelter," said human rights lawyer Sir Nigel Rodley, chairman of the U.N. committee. "The idea of criminalizing people who don't have shelter is something that I think many of my colleagues might find as difficult as I do to even begin to comprehend."


Meanwhile, the programs in place to support the homeless are typically inadequate, making claims that ending food-sharing is for their own good specious at best.

According to government data, about 600,000 people are homeless (https://www.hudexchange.info/resource/3300/2013-ahar-part-1-pit-estimates-of-homelessness/) on any given night.

Some 20 states bucked a nationally declining homeless rate from the height of the recession, increasing in measures of homelessness from 2012-2013. According to the NCH, one survey of homelessness found 62,619 veterans were homeless in January 2012.

Other at-risk groups for homelessness include (http://nationalhomeless.org/about-homelessness/) the seriously ill, battered women and people suffering from drug addictions or mental illness.

The economy isn't helping. More Americans live in poverty than before the recession began in 2008 and the number of households living under the poverty line has reached levels unseen since the 1960s (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/7/obamas-rhetoric-on-fighting-poverty-doesnt-match-h/?page=all).

Some city officials, like Houston's Mayor Annise Parker (https://news.vice.com/article/more-us-cities-are-cracking-down-on-feeding-the-homeless), claim that "making it easier for someone to stay on the streets is not humane" and say that uncoordinated charity efforts "keep them on the street longer, which is what happens when you feed them."

A local Food Not Bombs activist told VICE that the actual effect was to intimidate local residents from giving out food. Other cities are harsher. In 2011, more than 20 members of Food Not Bombs were arrested in Orlando (http://www.thenation.com/blog/161677/food-not-bombs-members-arrested-feeding-hungry) for sharing food. Love Wins Ministries in Raleigh was threatened with arrest (http://lovewins.info/2013/08/feeding-homeless-apparently-illegal-in-raleigh-nc/) for providing biscuits to the homeless.

Daytona Beach fined, harassed and threatened jail time for Debbie and Chico Jimenez, who run a ministry called "Spreading the Word Without Saying a Word." (http://spreadingthewordwithoutsayingawordministry.com)


Debbie and Chico Jimenez, who run a ministry to help people in poverty, were were ticketed last week $373 a piece (along with four other people) for feeding about 100 homeless people at a Daytona Beach Park. (photo courtesy NBCnews)


NBC News: Police Allegedly Ticket Volunteers for Feeding Homeless - Video (http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/55162105#55162105)


"Homeless people are visible in downtown America. And cities think by cutting off the food source it will make the homeless go away. It doesn't, of course," NCH community organizing director Michael Stoops told NBC News. "We want to get cities to quit doing this. We support the right of all people to share food."

"Nobody would suggest that the ideal situation for a homeless person to be in is living on the street, but the reality is people are living there and they will die there if they don't receive food," National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty policy director Jeremy Rosen told VICE.

Why you should care?

This is cruelty at its basest and most pointless. The homeless are real people who deserve to be treated like human beings. And if a city bans sharing the necessities of life with them, it doesn't bode well for other ways they treat the homeless.

Meanwhile, successful programs have demonstrated (http://mic.com/articles/86251/study-reveals-it-costs-less-to-give-the-homeless-housing-than-to-leave-them-on-the-street) that systematically providing housing and food for the homeless costs society less than leaving them on the street.