Pegasus Research Consortium

The Hills of Apollo - An Enigma

I am going to start this thread with a supposition:

SOMETHING is wrong with the Hills in the Apollo Surface shots

So lets have a look at a few things...

1) The sky is pure black... not a single bright star shows in any photo

2) The Hills are smooth and rounded, no jutting boulders, no sharp craigs, no deep cracks

3) Several images show the hills slightly blurry

4) The transition edge from hills to sky show no real sign of jaggedness... look rather like someone just simply cropped it

These are four points I want to address. There are others but I will add those as we go. I am sure other people have additional input like the video clips from TWO missions taken on the SAME hill


So first the lack of stars...

NASA says: You cannot see stars because of the brightness. The Astronauts say they didn't see any stars

Patrick Moore asks the alleged Apollo 11 crew could you actually see the stars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjppxh2-C0

Yet astronauts going to the space station tell us the stars are spectacular...

Now since there is supposedly no atmosphere on the moon, the sun would appear the SAME as it does in space viewed from the shuttle or ISS

And here on Earth where we have a dense atmosphere, we can see planets like Venus even when the sun is still in the sky

In fact NASA APOD says THIS

If you could turn off the atmosphere's ability to scatter overwhelming sunlight, today's daytime sky might look something like this ... with the Sun surrounded by the stars of the constellations Taurus and Gemini. Of course, today is the Solstice. Traveling along the ecliptic plane, the Sun is at its northernmost position in planet Earth's sky, marking the astronomical beginning of summer in the north. Accurate for the exact time of today's Solstice, this composite image also shows the Sun at the proper scale (about the angular size of the Full Moon). Open star cluster M35 is to the Sun's left, and the other two bright stars in view are Mu and Eta Geminorum. Digitally superimposed on a nighttime image of the stars, the Sun itself is a composite of a picture taken through a solar filter and a series of images of the solar corona recorded during the solar eclipse of February 26, 1998 by Andreas Gada.

(http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0706/solsticesun_lodriguss720.jpg)


So if there was NO ATMOSPHERE on Earth the stars would appear in awesome splendor but on the Moon the sky is pitch black?

Were they Faked?

I am going to use some stills from an IMAX version of the Moon Landing

The reason I want to start with that is because these images show why I think the Apollo Hills are FAKE and the sky had to be BLACK because any astronomer could point out if the stars looked wrong. Easier to convince people you couldn't see them

Incidentally that was Patrick Moore asking the Apollonauts  Famed British Astronomer

Image one:  Flat horizon (Imax film)  I have seen several photos in the Apollo set that show a flat horizon while others show a marked curved horizon.

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon8/Training/Apollo_11_004.jpg)

This one shows the blurry smooth effect. (This is also Hollywood Imax)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon8/Training/Apollo_11_006.jpg)

Now then... let us assume for a minute that these Apollo images were created in a studio...

Well Building 9 at Langley is still there. It was used for "Apollo Training" and was used again to make the IMAX moon landing

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon8/Training/ig264_walk_moon_imax_09_02.jpg)

So what did they do?  Well if they had a small set with rocks  and added a green screen...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon8/Training/ig264_walk_moon_imax_14.jpg)

They could then fill in the Hills and black sky later...

Then you hook the Astronot up to a crane like this...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon8/Training/ig264_walk_moon_imax_12.jpg)

and you get THIS (actuall Apollo fottage clips) Pay attention to the Hills..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Zy2BkRv9Q

The Sky was the color of Black Patent Shoes...

Now lets look at the sky...

In Building 9 they would turn down the lights, to make the sky black  like this...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon8/Training/Apollo_11_002.jpg)

I darkened this one... and deliberately left some artifacts

Now look at a real Apollo photo. In this one the horizon has a very marked curve...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon9/AS14_66_9295/AS14-66-9295_a.jpg)

In the sky we see THIS... is it a spacecraft or a studio fixture that got left in the airbrushing?

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon9/AS14_66_9295/Peekaboo_6a.png)

Original here  http://keithlaney.net/ApolloOrbitalimages/AS14/AS14-66-9295.jpg

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon8/Training/Apollo_11_003.jpg)

Lunar Orbiter vs Apollo

Lunar orbiter missions were intended to look over the moon and find safe landing sites.

A lot of the Lunar Orbiter images show SHATP jagged peaks and craigs, boulders strewn about and generally rough and rugged terrain... yet in Apollo its all smoothed out.

A task would be to try to match Apollo images to the same area on LO images for comparison

THIS is a Lunar Orbiter image of Copernicus crater... notice the horizon...

(http://images.astronet.ru/pubd/2007/06/17/0001222437/copernicus_lunarorbiter.jpg)

Okay I will now open the thread for input and add to it over the next few days...

If anyone can find those videos showing the same hilss in two missions I would appreciate it

Apollo Hills

(http://moonpans.com/prints/40_A15alsep.jpg) (http://moonpans.com/prints/40_A15alsep.jpg)


(http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.1445305_dmh.jpg) (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.1445305_dmh.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Apollo_15_LM_on_surface.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Apollo_15_LM_on_surface.jpg)

Nice thread "Z"...

Is this to suggest that you believe from the evidence that you appear to have obtained that you are now on the belief that the Apollo was all faked..

The more I look at this stuff, the more I feel that  it seems that way..

Or do you still see two possibilities that are hard to decide upon...

Quote from: zorgon on September 03, 2014, 11:54:06 PM
Apollo Hills

(http://moonpans.com/prints/40_A15alsep.jpg) (http://moonpans.com/prints/40_A15alsep.jpg)


(http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.1445305_dmh.jpg) (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.1445305_dmh.jpg)

In the bottom pic you can make out a line from left to right just past the buggy. Looks like a backdrop cloth or painting.
LSWONE.

Quote from: zorgon on September 03, 2014, 11:56:06 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Apollo_15_LM_on_surface.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Apollo_15_LM_on_surface.jpg)

I can see the same line in this pic too!

LSWONE.

Quote from: astr0144 on September 04, 2014, 12:37:56 AM
Is this to suggest that you believe from the evidence that you appear to have obtained that you are now on the belief that the Apollo was all faked..

Some of the astronauts sound like they are lying.  You CAN DEFINITELY see the stars VERY clearly from space when you orbit Earth.  If there is very little atmosphere on the Moon then you should be able to see them near the Moon too.

So what the fook is going on in the video?  Why tell an astronomer that you couldn't see them?  If you had seen the stars in space you would not forget or get confused (like in the video).  Think about it.  They are either lying about what they saw or they did not go.  What are the alternative explanations?

QuoteThe more I look at this stuff, the more I feel that  it seems that way..

Something is wrong regarding Apollo in my opinion.  I don't know what.  Perhaps they faked the footage even though they really went to feed the public hunger for a victory in the space race,  I'm damned if I know but something is not right.

ETA: I just corrected that monstrosity of a last paragraph to make it a bit more readable LOL.

I agree, LSWONE.  I think most if not all was faked.

Although the stars do not appear on the photos (as expected, as the photos are of areas in the sunlight) they should have been visible to the astronauts.

Quote from: astr0144 on September 04, 2014, 12:37:56 AM
Is this to suggest that you believe from the evidence that you appear to have obtained that you are now on the belief that the Apollo was all faked..

Ever since I started all this (originally I was an Apollo Groupie, wanted to be an Astronaut LOL) I have been finding evidence that supports both options...  Many of the photos are indeed faked. Some were taken for Life Magazine BEFORE the launch in case the real photos were not so great. That explains those with lighting issues

Many photos were enhance like the famous Earth Rise where NASA made the moon greyscale while over enhancing the blue Earth

The warped plates on the Lunar Module make it look like a cardboard mockup... No WAY that thing was in space, but I can never get an answer from the skeptics on that one (there is a thread here on that)
The star issue is a big and important one... as even NASA has two sides on that argument

Currently my belief is that yes, the secret space program from both the USA and Russia have been and are on the moon... I have LOTS of evidence on that including the Disney coverup and the Project Horizon documents. The fact that mining is ongoing is supported by literally THOUSANDS of documents on that where only the abstracts are available to the public

I have reports from 2 people on Kwajalien Atoll at the time. One says an Aquilla heavy lifter was sent to the moon THREE MONTHS before Apollo 11 and the other says that during every launch from the Atoll there was a bright light watching what they were doing..  that second person is a key player in the recent McMoon LO tapes snafu

In my opinion the Apollo mission was smoke and mirrors for the public and to cover up the real (and secret) military space program

Since we started talking about that, PBS NOVA has proved what I say is true and named some of these Secret Astronauts and interviewed them at the Pentagon One name pops up He was the FIRST secret Astronaut... then went on to become NAVY and did a tour as Director of NASA, finally becoming the FIRST commander of the Naval Space Command

Vice Admiral Richard H Truly

So all these years I have been collecting material to show this, but still no actual proof

I did get an email a few months back...

Webmaster,



I am a military member of the Air Force Space Command community at Vandenberg AFB, CA.  I found your webpage interesting, but grossly out of date.  Onizuka AFS shut down more than 7 years ago and the 21SOPS has been here at Vandenberg about that long.  I can provide unclassified updates of units located here if needed.  Let me know.

But we were too busy with petty drama to follow up on this. I hope its not too late


BTW 21SOPS is 21st Space Operations Squadron

Tell me I am crazy  LOL

Since Zorgon did his original Space Command material the US have upgraded their space lift capability (this is all public domain).

I also saw material a couple of years back about a modified upgraded Space Shuttle that did not require a Massive non-reusable launch vehicle to go into orbit.  It was allegedly tested at none other than Area 51!   It was a fair bit of material.  Well none of it is on the web now.  I lost my external hard drive and I cannot find a single bit of the material now.  None whatsoever.

Quote from: zorgon on September 04, 2014, 01:36:48 AM
Tell me I am crazy  LOL

You're crazy. :P

Maybe if you do not manage to contact that guy and see if you can find out more... Otherwise I thought about it but Pim beat me to it when I was pondering on it !

Otherwise I enjoyed reading your comments on it.

QuoteTell me I am crazy  LOL

QuoteBut we were too busy with petty drama to follow up on this. I hope its not too late


BTW 21SOPS is 21st Space Operations Squadron

Tell me I am crazy  LOL

Thats interesting ...so this is a new type of shuttle, but you do not see it related to directly to NASA...
Although I suspect all these programs are connected behind the scenes somehow...With them cancelling the shuttle... this looks like the replacement but to be used in Secret !

Area 51 involved with it, then !

I wonder if Area 51 was also part of the shuttle program at some stage even when NASA was running it...

QuoteI also saw material a couple of years back about a modified upgraded Space Shuttle that did not require a Massive non-reusable launch vehicle to go into orbit.  It was allegedly tested at none other than Area 51!

Found this image on a NASA website...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Toons/BudgetLRV.jpg)


::)

Quote from: astr0144 on September 04, 2014, 03:58:23 AM
Thats interesting ...so this is a new type of shuttle, but you do not see it related to directly to NASA...

Well the Secret Astronauts and the new space planes are not the scope of this thread LOL This thread is about the odd hills in the Apollo photos.

As LSWONE pointed out you can see the curtain line CLEARLY in many images, without really looking very hard

As to the space planes, DO take a moment and look here:

Blackswift: Return of the Spaceplane
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Blackswift_Spaceplane.html

Pay close attention to the Fox news report Undo made a transcript which I highlighted in RED

We were talking about secret space planes at ATS long before the X37 became exposed by an amaeur astronomer/satellite hunter and forced NASA and the AF to admit it, But we STILL don't know where it goes

Quote from: zorgon on September 04, 2014, 04:29:28 AM
Well the Secret Astronauts and the new space planes are not the scope of this thread LOL This thread is about the odd hills in the Apollo photos.

As LSWONE pointed out you can see the curtain line CLEARLY in many images, without really looking very hard

As to the space planes, DO take a moment and look here:

Blackswift: Return of the Spaceplane
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Blackswift_Spaceplane.html

Pay close attention to the Fox news report Undo made a transcript which I highlighted in RED

We were talking about secret space planes at ATS long before the X37 became exposed by an amaeur astronomer/satellite hunter and forced NASA and the AF to admit it, But we STILL don't know where it goes

Yes this has been discussed several times back when I hung out At The poopter.

Sorry for the language. :-)

LSWONE.

Lswone suggested seeing  a line on one of the photos, but I could not see , nor was  I sure what he meant !

But the background may have looked suspect..

QuoteAs LSWONE pointed out you can see the curtain line CLEARLY in many images, without really looking very hard

I remember Sgt found a reflection in an astronauts helmet which I though could have been a supporting column or beam of an interior?

Quote from: zorgon on September 04, 2014, 04:29:28 AM


As to the space planes, DO take a moment and look here:

Blackswift: Return of the Spaceplane
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Blackswift_Spaceplane.html

The link links to a post reply.  :o
That is really odd, I think it is a conspiracy  :P

Hmmmm No idea what your talking about  LOL

::)

Must have been a clipboard error  Thanks

Z,

I came across this post on the other site  8)

Significant? Or... Difficult to judge for me

(http://s17.postimg.org/jd31gdw67/Naamloos.jpg)

Yup, I firmly believe Kennedy declared to go to the Moon because he discovered that we *were* on the moon.

Maybe some of us have been going about this all the wrong way, trying to prove the UFO, (which is proven, but collectively ignored), maybe we just need to prove that there are peeps on the moon.

Maybe we should be designing awesome telescopes aha.
I follow a few amateur astronomers on facebook, they capture what seem to be structures each night...

Could it be as simple as a photo of the operations?
Surely it's just a matter of time before the leaders need to explain the oddities of the space program, and our aparrant backwards progression.

Russia and the US have declard to have bases on the moon and mars by 2030. Maybe that's disclosure time and in the mean time we have our economical distraction.

In regards to Apollo Hills, everything the public got was fake or editted..

David McGowan writes extensively about the photos of Apollo.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo1.html

Quote from: zorgon on September 04, 2014, 04:17:36 AM
Found this image on a NASA website...

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Toons/BudgetLRV.jpg)


::)

You forgot to say that the page title is "More Creativity - Fun and Inspiration"...

Quote from: ArMaP on September 04, 2014, 02:11:24 PM
You forgot to say that the page title is "More Creativity - Fun and Inspiration"...

You mean, this is not real?  :(

bah, I just completed my research about this. The thread would have been called "Allegedly a car has been found on the moon!"

Quote from: astr0144 on September 04, 2014, 05:39:04 AM
Lswone suggested seeing  a line on one of the photos, but I could not see , nor was  I sure what he meant !

But the background may have looked suspect..

Something along the lines such as below.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b596/LSWONE/Backdrop_zpsbd2644f5.png) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/LSWONE/media/Backdrop_zpsbd2644f5.png.html)

LSWONE.

Can you guys make out the backdrop on this one?

(http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/images/browse/AS15/88/11863.jpg)


LSWONE.

When there are hills there can be no stars. So what is it that is hidden in the dark behind the hills?
More hills or a structure  ::) ?

(http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/19921160_11863_back_drop.jpg) (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19921160/11863_back_drop.jpg.html)


(link corrected)

Something wrong with your link

Bless
Back

Quote from: Back on September 04, 2014, 07:25:47 PM
Something wrong with your link

Bless
Back

Link = OK , click on the hyperlink, it works for me

this link should work

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19921160/11863_back_drop.jpg.html



LSWONE.

Quote from: 1967sander on September 04, 2014, 05:35:55 PM
When there are hills there can be no stars. So what is it that is hidden in the dark behind the hills?
More hills or a structure  ::) ?

(http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/19921160_11863_back_drop.jpg) (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19921160/11863_back_drop.jpg.html)

Can you try that with a bigger version (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/sseop/images/ISD/highres/AS15/AS15-88-11863.JPG) of that photo? :)

Quote from: Lunica on September 04, 2014, 09:22:37 AM
I came across this post on the other site  8)
Significant? Or... Difficult to judge for me

THAt is actually a very good question... I can see why Buzz would have dodged that one...

Lets see if we can get NASA to tell us

Also how did the get the EVA spacesuits out of the LEM before takeoff since there is NO AIRLOCK

::)

Quote from: LSWONE on September 04, 2014, 04:46:15 PM
Can you guys make out the backdrop on this one?
LSWONE.

Yeah I will draw lines later...

Actually I never looked for that obvious sign  DOH!!!!

Quote from: LSWONE on September 04, 2014, 04:19:38 PM
Something along the lines such as below.
LSWONE.

I am more inclined to say the STRAIGHT LINE I see in all of them at the foot of the distant hills. When I get back I will do the lines show you what I mean  The odds that ALL those images have a long straight line is astronomical

Quote from: LSWONE on September 04, 2014, 04:19:38 PM
Something along the lines such as below.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b596/LSWONE/Backdrop_zpsbd2644f5.png) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/LSWONE/media/Backdrop_zpsbd2644f5.png.html)

LSWONE.

That's exactly what I saw.  [smile]

Quote from: LSWONE on September 04, 2014, 04:46:15 PM
Can you guys make out the backdrop on this one?

(http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/images/browse/AS15/88/11863.jpg)


LSWONE.

Yup.

Quote from: zorgon on September 04, 2014, 10:55:25 PM
THAt is actually a very good question... I can see why Buzz would have dodged that one...

Lets see if we can get NASA to tell us

Also how did the get the EVA spacesuits out of the LEM before takeoff since there is NO AIRLOCK

::)

I have wondered about that myself, Z: no airlock, and how to re-pressurise and maintain integrity for the seal?

and how did they haul their lil' moon buggy up there?

Just a dog and pony show for the sheeps, er, peeps...

perhaps Mr Oberg could join in and enlighten us?

seeker

8)

Quote from: astr0144 on September 04, 2014, 12:37:56 AM
Is this to suggest that you believe from the evidence that you appear to have obtained that you are now on the belief that the Apollo was all faked..

The more I look at this stuff, the more I feel that  it seems that way..

Or do you still see two possibilities that are hard to decide upon...

I started out as a kid being an Apollo Hugger... I wanted to become an Astronaut.  I even have a ticket on the wall to fly to the Moon, something we were all sure would be common place by this time...

Instead we are told we are not going back

As the years went by and I started looking harder at the evidence... i saw the deception.  At first I assumed that they took extra photos on Earth for publicity a) in case the ones on the moon didn't come out and b) so they had nice clear pictures for Life Magazine to gain support for the space program

Fair enough I thought THIS photo is a prime example of such image production The Earth is over enhanced and the Moon has been gray scaled and then a composite created. Anyone who still believes NASA does not alter photos is in my opinion a blind fool

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon7/Full_Moon/ISD_highres_AS11_AS11-44-6552Small.png)

Then I met John Lear... who at the beginning also thought like me that they went but the photos were wrong

As time passed and we looked at the evidence and talked to people that were there at the time. we realized that the Apollo program was an elaborate publicity stunt for political reasons. (Couldn't let those Russians upstage us any more)

The very premise of  the title THE LIVING MOON is that we believe we were already up there LONG before Apollo... The US Army had the plan and the launch site on Kwajalien.  I have Jack's story and Dr X's story, both who were on Kwajalien at the time.  Jack told me about the AQUILA launch three months before Apollo 11.  Dr X, a NASA JLP scientist involved in the Lunar Orbiter program (he was the one who had the missing tapes that ended up at that McDonald's) told me about the visitors that watched every launch from Kwajalien in glowing craft...

So yeah we ARE on the Moon  but Apollo was a hoax

Then over at ATS ArMaP one day told me he had problems with the hills in the Apollo surface shots.  Now this was interesting coming from an uber skeptic like ArMaP   :P  So we planned to do a thread on it.  But trying to match up images between the jagged hills in LO pictures with the smooth hills in Apollo was a big job and we never got it done. Mike Singh vanished and he was the LO image guy.

But since then others have done the work  and  Elvis Hendrix just posted one of the best photo proofs EVER to illustrate the point

You only need ONE image doctored to prove the case  I would say THIS set of two is the SMOKING GUN

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/same_zpsn8hxnpuh.gif)

Two things in the above images
1) the background is obviously identical
2) the cross marks are not on the image with the lander

ALL images should have those cross marks as they are on a plate in front of the film

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SuTW0zUnjvI/TxkkKKJCZxI/AAAAAAAADZA/mp_dSkrelBs/s1600/15lemornolemcomp.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0Dw3qPRqZwk/TxkktGETJjI/AAAAAAAADZY/I-dNAREs9nU/s1600/15splicephotos2lems.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IURm6gImYOU/Txkk0HAjyGI/AAAAAAAADZk/PCLxlWVVVYg/s1600/15twolems.jpg)

Quote from: zorgon on November 06, 2014, 09:35:25 PM
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon7/Full_Moon/ISD_highres_AS11_AS11-44-6552Small.png)

I remember that case. :)

QuoteThen over at ATS ArMaP one day told me he had problems with the hills in the Apollo surface shots.  Now this was interesting coming from an uber skeptic like ArMaP   :P  So we planned to do a thread on it.  But trying to match up images between the jagged hills in LO pictures with the smooth hills in Apollo was a big job and we never got it done. Mike Singh vanished and he was the LO image guy.

I think I will try to start doing some matching between photos, starting with the ones on this post. ;)

QuoteTwo things in the above images
1) the background is obviously identical
2) the cross marks are not on the image with the lander

The crosses are there, I see them. ???

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8kdAn-hv56I/Txkjfa8_0rI/AAAAAAAADYo/NwVok6MmI7k/s1600/15frontbacklempans.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Br5ECLXPS4g/TxkkibIedPI/AAAAAAAADZM/vq7Zv-VRk6g/s1600/15lempantwist.jpg)

Quote from: zorgon on November 06, 2014, 09:35:25 PM
You only need ONE image doctored to prove the case  I would say THIS set of two is the SMOKING GUN

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/same_zpsn8hxnpuh.gif)

Two things in the above images
1) the background is obviously identical

Photo AS17-136-20685 was taken some 200 metres west from where photo AS17-147-22527 was taken, so it's natural that a mountain/hill 7 km away would look the same from both sites.

Quote2) the cross marks are not on the image with the lander

ALL images should have those cross marks as they are on a plate in front of the film

I can see the crosses in all versions of that photo I could find, including that animation. ???

Quote from: zorgon on November 06, 2014, 09:59:27 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SuTW0zUnjvI/TxkkKKJCZxI/AAAAAAAADZA/mp_dSkrelBs/s1600/15lemornolemcomp.jpg)

No, the background doesn't match, look below for the most clear difference.

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/Lua_12.jpg)

Quote from: RUSSO on November 08, 2014, 07:09:28 AM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8kdAn-hv56I/Txkjfa8_0rI/AAAAAAAADYo/NwVok6MmI7k/s1600/15frontbacklempans.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Br5ECLXPS4g/TxkkibIedPI/AAAAAAAADZM/vq7Zv-VRk6g/s1600/15lempantwist.jpg)

I suppose the people that create those images doesn't understand a thing about perspective.  ::)

Quote from: ArMaP on November 08, 2014, 08:49:38 PM
I suppose the people that create those images doesn't understand a thing about perspective.  ::)

And i think people that claim perspective issues cannot count LEMs.  :P

Quote from: RUSSO on November 08, 2014, 11:32:46 PM
And i think people that claim perspective issues cannot count LEMs.  :P

Were you the one that created that image or are you another person that cannot understand perspective? :)

If someone is 100 metres north of a car with a mountain 5 km behind and takes photos to make a panorama, the car will appear south of the panorama. If that person moves 100 metres south of the car and takes more photos for a second panorama the car will appear north of the panorama, and the mountain will be 4.9 km behind.

Only very small (if any) differences will be seen in the mountain, but the second panorama will show the other side of the car when compared with the first panorama.

Quote from: ArMaP on November 09, 2014, 12:34:44 AM
Were you the one that created that image or are you another person that cannot understand perspective? :)

No i did not created those images.

QuoteJack White's Studies – Apollo 15 File
An extensive study of Apollo imagery by photo analyst Jack White
All studies © 2005/7 Jack White

(http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/15frontbacklempans.jpg)

QuoteEditor's Comments: 1. The conclusion has to be that either the LM was repositioned or the backdrops were moved around, or both. See also Doing the twist during Apollo 15 below, and a later Apollo 16 study.
2. The usual definition of a panorama is that of a series of photographs, shot sequentially by standing and turning about 10 degrees for each shot, and NOT INTERRUPTING FOR OTHER PHOTOS. This does not seem to be the case for NASA. During his panorama research Jack White has found a number of anomalies, other than the visual problems he discusses within these studies. NASA still infers that these panoramas are the true representation of the lunar EVA sites. While NASA may wish to argue for poetic license in giving the public 'an idea' of the relevant lunar environment – these pictures were never initially presented as 'approximate, or idealised composites'. Nor are they today. Since it is quite obvious (from the similar conclusions drawn independently by both Jack White and David Percy) that these 'composite panoramas' are full of discrepancies, as such they CANNOT be considered the true record of their purported lunar locations.

(http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/15lempantwist.jpg)

QuoteEditor's Note: Another version of the Apollo 15 study: LEM does turnabout with same background. See comments above and Doing the twist in a later Apollo 16 study.

Source
http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_11.html (http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_11.html)

Quote from: ArMaP on November 08, 2014, 06:51:55 PM
Photo AS17-136-20685 was taken some 200 metres west from where photo AS17-147-22527 was taken, so it's natural that a mountain/hill 7 km away would look the same from both sites.

200 meters west... 7km   should see more of a difference using perspective  :P What I need to do is find the video that shows TWO missions using the same hill

Well found it on that screwball "Bad Astronomer's" site  LOL  (I guess he must be a bad astronomer because he gave it up to become a professional (paid) debunker :P just like Stanton gave up a career in Nuclear Physics to become a UFO expert that has never seen a UFO  :o)

Bad: The other ``identical background'' segment shows an astronaut on a hilltop. A second video shows two astronauts on the same hill (and this time it really is the same hill), and claims that NASA itself says these two videos were taken on two different hills separated by many kilometers. How can this be? They are obviously the same hill, so NASA must be lying!

Good: Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to a mistake. A videotape about Apollo 16 ironically titled ``Nothing So Hidden...'' released by NASA does indeed make that claim, but in this case it looks to me to be a simple error. I asked Eric Jones, who is the editor of the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal, and he told me those two clips were taken about three minutes apart. Eric's assistant, Ken Glover, uncovered this problem. He sent me this transcript (which I edited a bit to make links to the video clips) of the Fox show with his comments, which I will highlight in red:

So NASA says it was an ERROR (now)  ;D

So now we need to do our own analysis on the two videos and verify if they are indeed two missions as was originally said (according to NASA) or an ERROR as it "looks to me to be a simple error"


Narrator: Background discrepancies are also apparent in the lunar video.
[...]

[Video showing John Young at Station 4 on EVA-2, with Fox caption "Day One". Click here (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16.sta4.html) for the transcript and here for the RealVideo clip (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1444638.ram).]

Narrator: This shot was taped in what was purported to be the first of Apollo 16's lunar excursions.

[Audio of John Young dubbed over clip: "Well, I couldn't pick a better spot", actual MET of 123:58:46]

[Next, video of John Young and Charlie Duke at Station 4, EVA-2. In reality, about three minutes after the first clip. Fox caption "Day Two". Click here (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16.sta4.html) for the transcript and here for the RealVideo clip (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1445240.ram).]

Narrator: And this video was from the next day, at a different location.

[Audio of Charlie Duke dubbed over clip: "That is the most beautiful sight!", actual MET of 124:03:01]

Narrator: NASA claims the second location was two-and-a-half miles away, but when one video was superimposed over the other the locations appear identical.

[Audio of John Young dubbed over "Day Two" video: " It's absolutely unreal!", actual MET 144:16:30]

Narrator: Conspiracy theorists claim that even closer examination of the photos suggest evidence of doctoring.

That last line is pretty funny. The audio you hear of the astronauts in those clips was actually all from different times than the video!

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

So Bad Astronomer Guy thinks its FUNNY that NASA puts the wrong voice with the wrong images? 

Makes you wonder what else NASA is dubbing over  :P

Quote from: zorgon on November 13, 2014, 01:45:55 AM
200 meters west... 7km   should see more of a difference using perspective  :P

It also depends on the lens used, but I don't know what lens was used.

3 minutes in this NASA video and you will hear this about the Van Allen Radiation Belts:

Quote"We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyZqSWWKmHQ

What?

Quotefowzie7771

I'm confused. You have to solve the problem of the dangerous radiation from the Van Alan Belts before you can send men through them? Didn't NASA go to the moon? With very little shielding? Aren't you guys basically saying you didn't land on the moon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyZqSWWKmHQ#t=75 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyZqSWWKmHQ#t=75)

::)

Freudian slip?

Quote from: RUSSO on November 13, 2014, 11:54:47 AM
::)

Freudian slip?

I think they are talking about that particular ship, as they started by saying that the radiation in the Van Allen Belts is dangerous for the electronics, and that's true, today's electronics are much more sensitive than what was used in the 1960s, and I think today's ships, with the electronics fried by radiation, may not be that easy to fly.

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/QxdGL_zpsea843064.png)








(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/9K8gKnL_zpsh7hj5yf7.gif)

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on November 19, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/QxdGL_zpsea843064.png)

What's the problem with that image, are those two photos supposed to have been taken in different places?

Quote(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/9K8gKnL_zpsh7hj5yf7.gif)

Didn't your mother tell you not to play with the food?  :P

Its just yet another example of the same backdrop being used in multiple photos, with the Lander in a completely different position. I guess they had to get there monies worth.



(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/KxybJkk_zpsgv3pdg9g.gif)

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/bothways_zpsa6cff89d.jpg)

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on November 19, 2014, 02:41:45 PM
Its just yet another example of the same backdrop being used in multiple photos, with the Lander in a completely different position.

It's more another example of how some people don't understand camera lens and perspective. When you have a mountain some miles back, if you move some hundreds of metres and point the camera in the direction of the mountains you will get a similar background, as there's not enough parallax to make the difference noticeable on the mountains but you will get, obviously, a different foreground.

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on November 19, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/QxdGL_zpsea843064.png)

The panorama with photos AS17-134-20437 to AS17-134-20433 was taken some 150 metres to the East of where the LM was, and where the panorama made with photos AS17-147-22494 to AS17-147-22521 was made. The mountain in the back and to the right (South Massif) was 6 km southwest from the LM in both photos, as 150 metres is not much when compared with 6 km.

Even with such small difference, you can see that there's a difference in the background, if you look at the original photos instead of that small image.

Quote from: ArMaP on November 19, 2014, 09:35:46 PM
Even with such small difference, you can see that there's a difference in the background, if you look at the original photos instead of that small image.

Would you not get the same effect if the background hills were a projection on a green screen instead of real hills?

8)

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on November 19, 2014, 03:23:53 PM
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/bothways_zpsa6cff89d.jpg)

This is a good example of ignorance or bad intentions, as any photo can show the sky or not, you just need to point the camera up or down. Another difference is that photo AS17-139-21204 they were using a camera with a telephoto (500 mm) lens and were 3 km from the LM and 9 km from the mountain, while in photo AS17-141-21514 they were using the other camera (with the 60 mm lens) and were in the same place where they took the panorama with photos AS17-134-20437 to AS17-134-20433, 150 metres east of the LM.

Quote from: zorgon on November 19, 2014, 09:49:53 PM
Would you not get the same effect if the background hills were a projection on a green screen instead of real hills?

8)

They would need a non-fixed projection, projecting a movie instead of a fixed image, and it would have to be synchronized with the movement of the camera in relation to the LM.

Quote from: ArMaP on November 19, 2014, 10:00:25 PM
They would need a non-fixed projection, projecting a movie instead of a fixed image, and it would have to be synchronized with the movement of the camera in relation to the LM.

Ah!  using something like THIS perhaps?

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/02archives/Apollo_Reality_files/08a9f120.jpe)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/02archives/Apollo_Reality_files/098027c0.jpe)(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/02archives/Apollo_Reality_files/099307c0.jpe)

Quote from: zorgon on November 19, 2014, 10:08:40 PM
Ah!  using something like THIS perhaps?

No, for at least two reasons:
1 - it's too small for the parallax needed;
2 - it's not a view from the ground at a specific place.

The only way I see it for something like that to work would be to have something filmed before with the same changes in perspective performed by the astronauts, so, basically, they would need to do exactly the same movements before, film it and project the film at the same the astronauts were doing their job, so all the changes (including light) matched.

PS: those specific models can only fool a blind person, they look clearly artificial.

Quote from: ArMaP on November 19, 2014, 11:32:38 PM
PS: those specific models can only fool a blind person, they look clearly artificial.

So why are the hills so SMOOTH when we all saw the Jagged Peaks in the Lunar Orbiter pictures. Since there is supposed to be no atmosphere up there... how did those hills transform from sharp jagged crags to smooth Apollo trademark hills between the time of the LO launches 1966-67 and the Moon landings 1969-72

Quote from: zorgon on November 19, 2014, 11:46:42 PM
So why are the hills so SMOOTH when we all saw the Jagged Peaks in the Lunar Orbiter pictures. Since there is supposed to be no atmosphere up there... how did those hills transform from sharp jagged crags to smooth Apollo trademark hills between the time of the LO launches 1966-67 and the Moon landings 1969-72

I don't know why, but that's no reason for them to be artificial, as they had the LO photos, so they could have made hills that looked the same, right?

If you were going to fake something why would you do it with something that didn't look like what people were expecting?

Quote from: ArMaP on November 19, 2014, 05:12:17 PM
It's more another example of how some people don't understand camera lens and perspective.

Let me introduce you to someone that understand camera lens and perspective.

(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTIwMzAwMzg1MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMjc4ODQ2._V1_SX214_CR0,0,214,317_AL_.jpg)

If this guy made that movie in 1968. I can assume that they had the technology to fake the moon landings the way they presented to us.

Dont get me wrong, i do think they went there. But the images they released to general public does not represent reality.

(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf80nsGxUk1qe0eclo1_r3_500.gif)

Has anyone seen this before?
I cant vouch for its authenticity of course , but it looks like another astronauts hand comes round the camera.. Meaning 3 men when we all know there was supposedly only 2 ??

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/3_zpsl93nwqqd.gif)


http://next.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/a14.clsout2.html#1351957

Scroll to real video clip 3min 27 secs


Apollo 14 EVA-2

Quote from: RUSSO on November 20, 2014, 03:13:38 PM
If this guy made that movie in 1968. I can assume that they had the technology to fake the moon landings the way they presented to us.

I don't think had, movie or no movie, as what was presented to us was much, much more than what we see on that movie, and of a much higher quality, several times.

PS: I had to do a quick search and download to look for some scenes, as I have never watched 2001 in full, and I have no intention of doing it, it's one of the most boring movies I know.

2001, Took me about 15 attempts to watch in full.

Got there 3 years later lol.

Well worth it, Kubrick was a genius don't you know ;)

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on November 20, 2014, 03:58:13 PM
Has anyone seen this before?
I cant vouch for its authenticity of course , but it looks like another astronauts hand comes round the camera.. Meaning 3 men when we all know there was supposedly only 2 ??

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/3_zpsl93nwqqd.gif)


http://next.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/a14.clsout2.html#1351957

Scroll to real video clip 3min 27 secs


Apollo 14 EVA-2

Looks like the American flag waving in the breeze.  :P

Quote from: Sinny on November 20, 2014, 10:47:19 PM
2001, Took me about 15 attempts to watch in full.

I only saw small parts, as I never really intended to watch it all.

QuoteWell worth it, Kubrick was a genius don't you know ;)

Being a genius doesn't mean that all his work suits everyone. :)

From a quick look at Wikipedia, I only watched in full two of his movies, Dr. Strangelove and The Shining, and, although I liked Dr. Strangelove, about The Shining, I, like the goat in the joke (http://www.jokes4us.com/animaljokes/moviestudiogoatsjokes.html), prefer the book. :)

Quote from: Sinny on November 20, 2014, 10:47:19 PM
2001, Took me about 15 attempts to watch in full.

Got there 3 years later lol.

Well worth it, Kubrick was a genius don't you know ;)

Maybe Kubrick was in the know!   ;) ;) ;)

Quote from: ArMaP on November 20, 2014, 09:38:39 PM
PS: I had to do a quick search and download to look for some scenes, as I have never watched 2001 in full, and I have no intention of doing it, it's one of the most boring movies I know.

That is the same problem with truth... it's slow and boring  :P  Real space flight is like 2001/2010  not like Star Wars but Star Wars is more exciting so who cares if it's wrong science :P

At least in 2010 they added some action and blew up Jupiter  :P

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 21, 2014, 07:10:45 AM
Maybe Kubrick was in the know!   ;) ;) ;)

In the Beginning....

there was Arthur C Clarke... 

He and Stanley got together one day for coffee and Stanley says.."Whatever you can write... I can make into film" [paraphrased]

So ACC wrote a story... and Stanley said "Crap... I can't film that" so ACC changed the story to make it filmable

Now in the original story the Black Obelisk was a Crystal Pyramid

Sir Arthur C Clark was "In the Know"  He gave us the Crystal Skull and Rama... Rama IS the Black Knight Satellite

Welcome to RAMA ...

...or perhaps the ARK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBIQCm54dfY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBIQCm54dfY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FecDUfDKimc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FecDUfDKimc

Quote from: zorgon on November 21, 2014, 07:39:03 AM
In the Beginning....

there was Arthur C Clarke... 

He and Stanley got together one day for coffee and Stanley says.."Whatever you can write... I can make into film" [paraphrased]

So ACC wrote a story... and Stanley said "Crap... I can't film that" so ACC changed the story to make it filmable

Now in the original story the Black Obelisk was a Crystal Pyramid

Sir Arthur C Clark was "In the Know"  He gave us the Crystal Skull and Rama... Rama IS the Black Knight Satellite

I saw 2001 in 1968 at its debut....Then I spent two hours trying to explain to my friend what the hell was the meaning of the giant hershey bar?....


8)

Quote from: zorgon on November 21, 2014, 07:39:03 AM
Rama IS the Black Knight Satellite

Could you elaborate as to why?

Here is the map of the stations of the for Apollo 17 LRV Traverses.


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/17_zpsbe9b0737.jpg)



Here is station 6.. Note the distinct background.


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/17A_zpse1bcfb1d.jpg)



Here is station 9.. Note the background.


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/17B_zps7bbe3195.jpg)


This is Station 8, Cochise crater. Same background.


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/17C_zps110f5647.jpg)



Station 5, Camelot crater is over 1 kilometer from the landing site in a totally opposite direction to Station 8, (which incidentally is over 6 Kms from Station 5).


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/17D_zps82cbb0cb.jpg)


Station 7.


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/17E_zpsa09d13fe.jpg)


and the A17 landing site (with NO reticules?)


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/17FNORETICLES_zps4d616796.jpg)

Hmmm.

And heres an interesting pic from Langley ( where a lot of the fakery went on )


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/LANGLEY_zpsdda1297e.jpg)


Notice whats going on in the background!
See the hills and the backdrop!

(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/mesZZEH_zpscze5bjzi.gif)

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on November 21, 2014, 05:13:17 PM
and the A17 landing site (with NO reticules?)

Only on that bad copy.

QuoteAnd heres an interesting pic from Langley ( where a lot of the fakery went on )


(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a572/paparumbo/LANGLEY_zpsdda1297e.jpg)

Do you have a source for that photo?

Quote from: ArMaP on November 21, 2014, 09:55:00 PM
Do you have a source for that photo?

Looks like Building 9 at Langly

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/Vault/Building9.png)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon8/Training/Apollo_11_003.jpg)


(http://i46.fastpic.ru/big/2012/1102/a9/d9d24028755557d3dfa2672b8b269ba9.jpg)

Quote from: zorgon on November 21, 2014, 10:33:42 PM
Looks like Building 9 at Langly

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/Vault/Building9.png)

It does, but it lacks the context a source may provide. :)

Quote from: ArMaP on November 20, 2014, 09:38:39 PM
I don't think had, movie or no movie, as what was presented to us was much, much more than what we see on that movie, and of a much higher quality, several times.

PS: I had to do a quick search and download to look for some scenes, as I have never watched 2001 in full, and I have no intention of doing it, it's one of the most boring movies I know.

QuoteI have never watched 2001 in full, and I have no intention of doing it, it's one of the most boring movies I know.

Greetings esteemed Member ArMaP:

Your 'intention' is typical of the majority of Your posts.

In line with the fact that 75% (at least) of Your posts are negative.

What's up with that, friend?

Here, again, You assume a position based on NO INTEL and make another supercilious statement.

Which part of 2001 do You find 'boring' so as to preclude Your possible enjoyment of a cultural icon.

Personally, we have never met another human being (people we know that actually saw the movie - 95 % is probable - in order to make an intelligent decision) that finds 2001 'boring.'    ;D

Is this scene boring to You?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3oHmVhviO8

2001 Docking Sequence (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3oHmVhviO8)

Thanking You in advance for Your time, consideration and participation.

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/lg50aa500a.gif)

tfw
Peace Love Light
Liberty & Equality or Revolution

Hec'el oinipikte  (that we shall live)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 22, 2014, 12:25:09 AM
Greetings esteemed Member ArMaP:

Greetings. :)

QuoteYour 'intention' is typical of the majority of Your posts.

In line with the fact that 75% (at least) of Your posts are negative.

What's up with that, friend?

Probably because most of my posts are answers to things I think are wrong, as I'm not the type of person that posts just to agree with other people.

QuoteHere, again, You assume a position based on NO INTEL and make another supercilious statement.

No intel? Why do you say that? ???

QuoteWhich part of 2001 do You find 'boring' so as to preclude Your possible enjoyment of a cultural icon.

All the parts I watched. :)

QuotePersonally, we have never met another human being (people we know that actually saw the movie - 95 % is probable - in order to make an intelligent decision) that finds 2001 'boring.'    ;D

That's irrelevant to my opinion, and you know it.

QuoteIs this scene boring to You?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3oHmVhviO8

2001 Docking Sequence (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3oHmVhviO8)

Yes, and I find the use of classical music in those scenes ridiculous.

QuoteThanking You in advance for Your time, consideration and participation.

You're welcome. :)

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 22, 2014, 12:25:09 AM
What's up with that, friend?

Well that is the Bane of a Sceptic :P Since they believe in nothing :P they seem negative in everything

I actually got a ticket on that Pan Am shuttle... its still on my wall. To bad Pan Am went bankrupt and we never did get passenger service to space...

What's up with THAT?   :o

(http://i317.photobucket.com/albums/mm374/mauther/Sci-fi%202/panamgggff_zpsb136a560.jpg)

Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on November 21, 2014, 12:32:40 PM
Then I spent two hours trying to explain to my friend what the hell was the meaning of the giant hershey bar?....

The first monolith discovered in the modern age was uncovered on the Moon at the site of an inexplicably powerful magnetic field near the crater Tycho. It was called the Tycho Magnetic Anomaly 1 ("TMA-1") before the monolith was discovered. After this is discovered to be an alien artifact, its name becomes the "Tycho Monolith Anomaly 1" (still TMA-1). Soon afterward, a second, larger monolith was discovered orbiting Jupiter; it was dubbed "TMA-2". A few centuries in the future, a third monolith is discovered that is buried on Earth in rocks that were clearly millions of years old, and it is surrounded by primitive human artefacts. This one is retroactively named "TMA-0" (as opposed to "TMA-3") because it had been the first monolith to be discovered by men-apes during prehistoric times.

The term "Tycho Magnetic Anomaly" is something of a misnomer when referring to "TMA-0" and "TMA-2", since neither of these is found on the Moon (let alone in Tycho Crater) and neither one of them emits any significant magnetic field, as described in the novel 2010: Odyssey Two. In the novel, the Russian crewmen of the spaceship Alexei Leonov refer to the TMA-2 as "Zagadka" (from the Russian word for "enigma", "mystery", or "riddle").

(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_aliens/odtssey2001_16.jpg)

The Ancients  or First Borns

The extraterrestrial species that built the monoliths is never described in much detail, but some knowledge of its existence is given to Dave Bowman after he is transported by the stargate to the "cosmic zoo", as detailed in the novels 2001: A Space Odyssey and 2010: Odyssey Two. The existence of this species is only hypothesized by the rest of humanity, but it is obvious because the monolith was immediately identified as an artefact of non-human origin.

The extraterrestrial species that built the monoliths developed intergalactic travel millions or perhaps billions of years before the present time. In the novels, Clarke refers to them as the "Firstborn" (not to be confused with the identically-named race in Arthur C. Clarke's and Stephen Baxter's Time Odyssey Series) since they were quite possibly the first sentient species to possess a significant capability of interstellar travel. Members of this species explored the universe in the search of knowledge, and especially knowledge about other intelligent species.

While these early explorers discovered that life was quite common, they observed that intelligent life was often stunted in its development, or else died out prematurely. Hence, they set about fostering it. The "Firstborn" were in many ways physically different from human beings, though from another point-of-view they were fundamentally the same: they were creatures made of "flesh and blood", and hence like human beings they were mortal.

However, the evolutionary development projects they began would by their nature require very long time-spans to complete, far longer than the lifetimes of their creators. Therefore, the aliens created increasingly complex automated machines to oversee and carry out their projects over the eons. When they encountered a living world that had features in favour of the evolution of intelligent life, they left behind the monoliths as remote observers that were also capable of taking a variety of actions according to the wishes of their creators. One such planet, encountered when it was still quite young, was the Earth. They also observed Jupiter and its watery moon, Europa. The decaying ecology of Mars was also visited, but passed over in favour of more fruitful locations like Earth. The aliens left behind three monoliths to observe and enact their plan to foster humans to pursue technology and space travel.

As described in Clarke's novel, the Firstborn discovered later how to transfer their consciousness onto computers, and thus they became thinking machines. In the end, they surpassed even this achievement, and were able to transfer entirely from physical to non-corporeal forms – the "Lords of the Galaxy" — omniscient, immortal, and capable of travelling at great speeds. The Firstborn had abandoned physical form, but their creations, the monoliths, remained, and these continued to carry out their original assignments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XT6EEPg65g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XT6EEPg65g


Dave's Ship  --- somewhere beyond Saturn

(http://thelivingmoon.com/46_mike_singh/04images/Saturn/W00026015a.jpg)

::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK_vWRrElGs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK_vWRrElGs

As expected, the background is not exactly the same, as we can see in the animation below or by looking at the original photos instead of those black and white bad, unidentified copies posted by Elvis Hendrix.

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r66/armap/ln5470d225.gif)

Hey....Zorgon...who is that face in the monolith in your entry?  I noticed it when I looked.

Armap, with all respect. You just did a better job than I ever could in presenting the only backdrop they had.
Thank you it's very clear.
Well done.
Elvis.

Quote from: Elvis Hendrix on November 22, 2014, 06:50:40 PM
Armap, with all respect. You just did a better job than I ever could in presenting the only backdrop they had.
Thank you it's very clear.
Well done.
Elvis.

The only backdrop? With the hills changing their relative positions? Only if they had a 3D backdrop.

Edited to add an animation with just two photos, this shows better what I was saying.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r66/armap/cf5470de85.gif)

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 22, 2014, 06:30:57 PM
Hey....Zorgon...who is that face in the monolith in your entry?  I noticed it when I looked.

Kubrick, if I'm not mistaken.

Kubrick's Odyssey {Jay Weidner documentary}
http://nemesistv.info/video/HO3SMWSXYK42/kubricks-odyssey-secrets-hidden-in-the-films-of-stanley-kubrick-part-1# (http://nemesistv.info/video/HO3SMWSXYK42/kubricks-odyssey-secrets-hidden-in-the-films-of-stanley-kubrick-part-1#)

Greetings ArMaP:

That is one of Your best replies to one of our questions.   :o

That's good!   ;)

Thank You for Your time and consideration.

(Reaches for popcorn...)  :P

However...

QuoteYour 'intention' is typical of the majority of Your posts.

In line with the fact that 75% (at least) of Your posts are negative.

What's up with that, friend?

Probably because most of my posts are answers to things I think are wrong,
as I'm not the type of person that posts just to agree with other people.

As evidenced with our affiliation with Anonymous, we prefer to look for the positive things that we find agreement with,
instead of attempting to enforce One's view as to "what's wrong" with other peoples opinions/views.

QuoteHere, again, You assume a position based on NO INTEL and make another supercilious statement.

No intel? Why do you say that? ???

QuoteI have never watched 2001 in full, and I have no intention of doing it, it's one of the most boring movies I know.

Having admitted to not watching 2001 in full was our meaning of 'NO INTEL.'

So, do You make such a snap judgement on all movies?

Yes, we remember that You previously stated that You "do not waste Your time on Youtube videos..."

Just for grins, would You mind sharing, say 5, movies that You have viewed in Your lifetime that You do not find boring?

Thank You for Your time and consideration.

BTW, did You see Close Encounters of the Third Kind (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHN1RIK8Tkg&spfreload=10)?

Julia was dear friend and being on the set as a grip and close personal friend of the producers was interesting, to say the least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxp32VHaYdE

Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977) - Original Trailer - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxp32VHaYdE)

Welcome home, Brother. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xwFL8-I2uI&spfreload=10)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/lg50aa500a.gif)

tfw
Peace Love Light
Liberty & Equality or Revolution

Hec'el oinipikte  (that we shall live)

The Root of 'Division' and 'Conflict' stems from the 'Double Logic' within the human Genome.

Some religious Institutions refer to this 'Double Logic' as either 'the Mark of the Beast'
or the Number (666)   :(

According to The Books of E'NOCH the other species on earth were also made corrupt by a minority NOT of the Earth.!   :o

Most can't accept that the 'beast' (a beast of the Field) IS the 'human Primate'.   :(

To expand on Trix's last post:

Rudolf Steiner: Lucifer, Ahriman & Asuras
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rudolf+steiner+pdf&oq=rudolf+steiner+pdf&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-serp.1.0.0l3j0i22i30l2.68104.73703.0.76427.19.15.0.1.1.0.637.1366.0j2j4-1j1.4.0....0...1c.1.34.mobile-heirloom-serp..14.5.1445.JSXNgD1SHxw

Quote from: thorfourwinds on November 23, 2014, 12:41:52 AM
However...

As evidenced with our affiliation with Anonymous, we prefer to look for the positive things that we find agreement with,
instead of attempting to enforce One's view as to "what's wrong" with other peoples opinions/views.

I have thought before that we see things from completely opposite points of view (and the above sentence shows that), probably even in things we agree. :)
I look for the positive things, but instead of publicizing them as positive things (unless I see a need for that, which means that's probably the result of some negative thing I see) I think "good, that's taken care of, what should we try to make better now" and start looking for the negative (or less positive) things that need to be looked into or, at least, made noticed by those that can do something about it.

And no, I am not enforcing my view, I'm just presenting it, even if I wanted to, how could I do it?

QuoteHaving admitted to not watching 2001 in full was our meaning of 'NO INTEL.'

Less intel than I could have would be a better way of describing my position, as, to me, "no intel" could be only applied if I haven't seen any part of the movie.

QuoteSo, do You make such a snap judgement on all movies?

No, do you make such snap judgements about people? ;)

QuoteYes, we remember that You previously stated that You "do not waste Your time on Youtube videos..."

I don't remember ever saying it that way.
I try not to waste time with any thing, and most videos posted on the Internet are just a different (and slower) way of presenting some data. Video, like any other communication medium, is just a tool, I just think people abuse the availability of posting YouTube videos and use it when they should use a different medium, like making an YouTube video to show photos, in many cases losing all the advantage of high resolution photos by turning them into a highly compressed Flash video.

QuoteJust for grins, would You mind sharing, say 5, movies that You have viewed in Your lifetime that You do not find boring?

There are many movies I don't find boring, as I see at least one each week. Let me see, the first movie that comes to my mind is one of my all time favourites, "Arsenic and old lace". I can also think of "Star Wars (Episode IV: A New Hope)", "Mad Max", "Life of Brian" and "1941".

The movie I watched yesterday, "The Devil's Tomb", is boring.  :P

QuoteThank You for Your time and consideration.

No problems. :)

QuoteBTW, did You see Close Encounters of the Third Kind (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHN1RIK8Tkg&spfreload=10)?

Yes, but I didn't like it much, and I'm not a fan of Spielberg.

Quote from: The Matrix Traveller on November 23, 2014, 04:22:02 AM
The Root of 'Division' and 'Conflict' stems from the 'Double Logic' within the human Genome.

Some religious Institutions refer to this 'Double Logic' as either 'the Mark of the Beast'
or the Number (666)   :(

According to The Books of E'NOCH the other species on earth were also made corrupt by a minority NOT of the Earth.!   :o

Most can't accept that the 'beast' (a beast of the Field) IS the 'human Primate'.   :(

I don't see any connection with this topic, could you please explain it?
Thanks in advance.

Quote from: ArMaP on November 23, 2014, 05:37:10 PM
I look for the positive things, but instead of publicizing them as positive things (unless I see a need for that, which means that's probably the result of some negative thing I see) I think "good, that's taken care of, what should we try to make better now" and start looking for the negative (or less positive) things that need to be looked into or, at least, made noticed by those that can do something about it.

That is very 'Christian" of you  8)

behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples; not of their own accord, but by the invitation of Matthew, and with the good will, and full consent of Christ, who was far from being displeased with their company and freedom; but gladly embraced every opportunity of doing good to the souls of the worst of men; for such as these he came to call and save.

Seems mankind has been ignoring the good while pointing out the bad and trying to fix it for a few thousand years...

In this way the good deeds of Man (the vast majority) get no mention and little reward because it is expected... while the bad deeds make the Evening News   8)

Quote from: ArMaP on November 23, 2014, 05:51:11 PM
I don't see any connection with this topic, could you please explain it?
Thanks in advance.

It has everything to do with 'human reason' or Beliefs , the subject is based on.

The 'Opposing' beliefs are the result of 'Double Logic', within the human Genome.

It is the Root cause of 'Conflict' .

Quote from: zorgon on November 23, 2014, 08:06:32 PM
Seems mankind has been ignoring the good while pointing out the bad and trying to fix it for a few thousand years...

As a programmer I'm very good at debugging, so I suppose I try to "debug" everything I see. ;D

Quote from: The Matrix Traveller on November 23, 2014, 08:19:51 PM
It has everything to do with 'human reason' or Beliefs , the subject is based on.

Almost everything we post is based on beliefs, by that logic (double or single) you could copy your post to all threads. :)

Seems mankind has been ignoring the good while pointing out the bad and trying to fix it for a few thousand years...

In this way the good deeds of Man (the vast majority) get no mention and little reward because it is expected... while the bad deeds make the Evening News

A quote from you Zorgon...I agree...at least 2 forums in which I actively participate I have tried to start a positive thread with good news..articles of people doing good things and the like.  Absolutely no participation or very little.  I came to realize that we become involved in things that will not be solved due to human nature being as it is.  I can only present a point of view...I can't force someone to accept it.  I don't argue a point for the sake of arguing and I try not to nit pick.  Just a waste of time.  There are a lot of good things being done by good people no matter their station in life...but most people do not want to hear it...a shame indeed.

This thread deals with an enigma regarding moon pictures from Apollo and these arguments or opinions are just that.  Yes there were probably things that were faked but look at all the good people who had pure motives in the space race...sacrifices made by test pilots...hours put in by technicians and so on.  These are never mentioned.

Yes I wonder how much is faked and who did it but can it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  Probably not but it is interesting to analyze.  I cannot prove or disprove whether we went to the moon or not.  So much information and disinformation....

Quote from: spacemaverick on November 23, 2014, 09:36:20 PMThere are a lot of good things being done by good people no matter their station in life...but most people do not want to hear it...a shame indeed.

Well ONE reason is because those that DO are busy DOING... while those that DO NOT are busy whining about everything in forums   :P

I have come to realize that the vast majority of people come to forums not to learn or seek any truth... but because they have nothing better to do and need to know they are not alone in their misery

::)

The fact that we have so few members posting positive information is proof enough that I am correct.

Time to get back to basics and focus on the website. That is where the DOERS read our material   8)

QuoteThis thread deals with an enigma regarding moon pictures from Apollo and these arguments or opinions are just that.  Yes there were probably things that were faked but look at all the good people who had pure motives in the space race...sacrifices made by test pilots...hours put in by technicians and so on.  These are never mentioned.

True enough but don't forget that Uber Skeptic ArMap even had issues with the Hills of Apollo in his mind. He may not believe it's all a hoax but his mind is telling him SOMETHING is not right. He even has a few good anomalies that give him pause.

So if even the skeptics scratch their head from time to time, that is a good sign SOMETHING is wrong

QuoteYes I wonder how much is faked and who did it but can it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  Probably not but it is interesting to analyze.  I cannot prove or disprove whether we went to the moon or not.  So much information and disinformation....

That is the problem... I have so much information that is contradictory. I can "prove" we DIDN'T go, I can "prove" we DID go. I am positive we went BEFORE Apollo, etc etc.

I could brush it all off as Conspiracy Theory with no basis in reality...

except that EVERYTIME my mind goes in that direction SOMEONE "In the know" contacts me and says "You might be interested in THIS" and attaches a file or a link or a hint or all of the above. That person can always be traced to an official source and the links etc ALWAYS pan out and lead me to many REAL doors

When you get a skeptic like IgnoreTheFacts at ATS that for years hounds you (like he did John and myself) then one day writes you saying "Your 90% right about your secret astronaut material" and you get an email from a guy at Vandeberg who IS one of those secret astronauts (21SOPS) telling you your info is out of date and offers to help you upgrade it... when you get NASA people contacting you and saying your Moon picture is the best they have ever seen, buying Bob Lazar/John Lear tapes and purusing (and advertising on) the website... when the Military sends watchers (and even knocks on the door), then feeds you info, increases your access to dot mil sites and buys advertising on the Stargate pages...

...you then have no choice but to believe... no to KNOW that SOMETHING is not right

8)

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/05images/banners/slide_002a.png)

(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/pschrier/Zorgon_zpsd0390cd7.jpg)

Well said, Sir.

Paulie

Thanks for that Zorgon....helps me stay on track.

Quote from: zorgon on November 23, 2014, 11:29:13 PM

When you get a skeptic like IgnoreTheFacts at ATS that for years hounds you (like he did John and myself) then one day writes you saying "Your 90% right about your secret astronaut material" and you get an email from a guy at Vandeberg who IS one of those secret astronauts (21SOPS) telling you your info is out of date and offers to help you upgrade it... when you get NASA people contacting you and saying your Moon picture is the best they have ever seen, buying Bob Lazar/John Lear tapes and purusing (and advertising on) the website... when the Military sends watchers (and even knocks on the door), then feeds you info, increases your access to dot mil sites and buys advertising on the Stargate pages...

...you then have no choice but to believe... no to KNOW that SOMETHING is not right

8)

ITF... that guy was a master lord in bashing people. I wonder what new avatar he choose after he got kicked from Alfa Tango Sierra.

Sometimes i wonder in fear if CIA has nothing to do with part of those contacts and partial leaks to some very specific people in the interwebs.

Afterall we know they are the ones...

(http://www.frontpress.ro/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/media-manipulare.png)

in American mass media.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-08ti2z-zwZg/Ur5CgzuXZmI/AAAAAAAAxsg/2U1_GxUJpOY/s1600/William_Casey_CIA_Disinformation_Campaign-650x325.jpg) ::)

Quote from: RUSSO on November 25, 2014, 08:15:07 PM
ITF... that guy was a master lord in bashing people. I wonder what new avatar he choose after he got kicked from Alfa Tango Sierra.

Pity he was banned... I never did have his email addy

Quote from: zorgon on November 25, 2014, 09:12:30 PM
Pity he was banned... I never did have his email addy

Well... its not that difficult to find your trail back here.

Maybe he lost his guts ;D

Quote from: zorgon on September 03, 2014, 11:23:26 PM
Were they Faked?

More wood to the fire?

Quote'Fake' Apollo Moon Landing Photo Claims To Show Proof The Mission Was A Hoax

QuoteAlmost 50 years after man walked on the moon, the "giant leap for mankind" is under the microscope once again – with conspiracy theorists convinced they have proof one of the moon landings was fake.

A picture allegedly taken in December 1972 of the final Apollo 17 moon mission has been shared online, and shows what one YouTuber believes is the reflection of a "stagehand" in the helmet of one of the astronauts.

The photo, uploaded to YouTube this week by a user named Streetcap1 is entitled "Reflection in a Visor," and Streetcap1 suggests this casts doubt onto whether the 1972 moon landing, in particular, was staged.

Quote"I thought it looked a bit strange, so I took a picture of it using my software," Streetcap1 says in the video commentary.

"What we appear to have here is a figure of a human not wearing a spacesuit, circa early 70s... Apollo 17 photograph," he explained of the picture. "There was some dispute back in 2009 of the legitimacy of these photos."

"I'm just going to make a little video here and upload it and you can let me know what you think," Streetcap1 added, explaining he did believe in the moon landing but was now in doubt due to the photograph.

Full Read: http://www.newsweek.com/fake-apollo-moon-landing-photo-claims-show-proof-mission-was-hoax-716221?amp=1 (http://www.newsweek.com/fake-apollo-moon-landing-photo-claims-show-proof-mission-was-hoax-716221?amp=1)

The video:

Reflection in a Visor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=771BCym46JE

Original Picture From NASA:

(https://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-141-21608HR.jpg)

Zoomed:

(http://canadajournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Moon-landing-filmed-in-studio-Astronauts-visor-proves-NASA-staged-Apollo-17-mission-660x330.jpg)

Thoughts?

There's a better version on a NASA site, here (https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo17/hires/as17-141-21608.jpg).

A crop from that version.
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/as17-141-21608.jpg)

It looks like the other astronaut, the one that was taking the photo, I don't know why all this talk.

Quote from: ArMaP on November 21, 2017, 12:03:31 AM
It looks like the other astronaut, the one that was taking the photo,

Thank you ArMaP :)

QuoteI don't know why all this talk.

Let me tell you, there is an ongoing conspiracy theory around that the man went to the moon, but the pictures and film footages NASA provided are fake, because they were trying to hide things they found in the moon :P

Sorry, could not help myself  ;D

And yes, it looks like another astronaut!

Quote from: ArMaP on November 21, 2017, 12:03:31 AM
There's a better version on a NASA site, here (https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo17/hires/as17-141-21608.jpg).

My link: https://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-141-21608HR.jpg

Oddly enough, both links (yours and mine) of the photo are down. It seems the story made to the news on MSM, maybe it's too much traffic?  ???

Ps. Nevermind... the whole site is down.

Now it's working.