Noah's Flood - Fact or Fiction?

[Captain Dave]

Please, no apologies are necessary! 

Speaking to each other at all usually means we are trying to convey or understand something - usually our experiences. That sharing in itself shows care for others & not ill will. Though frustration does sometimes get the better of us.

I know that words can not always convey the true experience, and it seems therefore the essence of what we mean is lost. With that said, thank you all for taking the time and making the attempt to share your thoughts, idea's and knowledge.

Though sometimes it takes awhile for me to understand what is said, I do enjoy trying. Often what is said today will make sense tomorrow or a week, or maybe even in years to come. When the time is right, the puzzle pieces fall into place. So much of what you each say, causes me to see a larger picture of our existence and that to me is one of the greatest things in life.



Though sometimes it seems things are going off topic, you never know where those off topic comments may lead... They may trigger a memory or an idea that solves a 6000 year old mystery. Some of the greatest things are discovered by accident, so far be it from me to stymie the  process. 

[The Matrix Traveller]

Hi Undo11,

Here is an interesting Article on Venus.

Physics@Suite101

http://paul-a-heckert.suite101.com/tectonic-and-geologic-activity-on-venus-a111167

Paul A. Heckert - I have a Ph.D. in astrophysics, over 30 years experience teaching physics and astronomy, and over 60 published research articles.

Read more at Suite101: Tectonic and Geologic Activity on Venus: Venus's Surface Has Processes Different from Earth's Plate Tectonics | Suite101.com http://paul-a-heckert.suite101.com/tectonic-and-geologic-activity-on-venus-a111167#ixzz1sC9BQ05I

Peace.

.

[undo11]

Hi Undo11,

Here is an interesting Article on Venus.

Physics@Suite101

http://paul-a-heckert.suite101.com/tectonic-and-geologic-activity-on-venus-a111167

Paul A. Heckert - I have a Ph.D. in astrophysics, over 30 years experience teaching physics and astronomy, and over 60 published research articles.

Read more at Suite101: Tectonic and Geologic Activity on Venus: Venus's Surface Has Processes Different from Earth's Plate Tectonics | Suite101.com http://paul-a-heckert.suite101.com/tectonic-and-geologic-activity-on-venus-a111167#ixzz1sC9BQ05I

Peace.

.

interesting!

[undo11]

the page i linked with info on carl sagan's venus terraform, also had this little juicy tidibt:

No natural phenomenon can account for the parting of the Red Sea, but if we are open-minded enough to entertain the hypothesis that extraterrestrials were responsible, we could imagine some potent antigravity forces pushing back the waters. We can already manipulate liquids at a distance with electrostatic forces. Many computer printers utilise this affect by using electrical fields to manoeuvre jets of charged ink around paper. If you let a thin stream of water run from a tap, then comb you hair and place the comb inches from this stream, the static electricity in the comb will actually bend the flow. If the static charge was greater, the water would flow at right angles, and if the electricity was charged further by a Van de Graff generator, you would be able to draw up gallons of water from a swimming pool. To part the Red Sea would take millions of watts of power, but that would easily be expendable to a space faring race.

[Littleenki]

the page i linked with info on carl sagan's venus terraform, also had this little juicy tidibt:

No natural phenomenon can account for the parting of the Red Sea, but if we are open-minded enough to entertain the hypothesis that extraterrestrials were responsible, we could imagine some potent antigravity forces pushing back the waters. We can already manipulate liquids at a distance with electrostatic forces. Many computer printers utilise this affect by using electrical fields to manoeuvre jets of charged ink around paper. If you let a thin stream of water run from a tap, then comb you hair and place the comb inches from this stream, the static electricity in the comb will actually bend the flow. If the static charge was greater, the water would flow at right angles, and if the electricity was charged further by a Van de Graff generator, you would be able to draw up gallons of water from a swimming pool. To part the Red Sea would take millions of watts of power, but that would easily be expendable to a space faring race.

The water would have been easier to force apart through the artificial integration of gravity fields, or a electroctstic effect for an advanced race bent on protecting, and helping the jews on their exodus. Any tech required would have been rudimentary to them, as pulling a big ship through space for thousand sof light years requires a bit more pop than parting some water, which was acheived with advanced tech no doubt.
For the parting, i picture some sort of force like a coriolis effect where the water spirals away in opposing directions from the center point of the event.
Like a two way drain, pulling the water in two distinct directions away from the event ground zero.

Whoever was feeidng the jews manna, was the most likely culprit, and the tech was most likely similar to what is described in Sagan's venus terraforming report. Manna was just algae, and was created through photosynthesis daily, and kept the jews alive all that time. parting the red sea was just the Advanced races way of sending a huge message to the pursuers: stay back!

The bible is one of my favorite research tools, and to sit down and read it with an open mind is a challenge unto itself, as there are so many different ways to decipher whats being written in there, and so many ways it's been altered through the years.
It is now a more telling indicator of what was wrong with society for all those two thousand years, than it is a show of power for the goodness of society, which we all know is lacking these days.

A good book? well maybe not, but a treasure trove of twisted tales and hidden meanings that creates a conundrum among the religious folks of the world. To learn from the Bible, one needs to immediately recognize the redundant, rhetorical nature of it, and the way stories have been changed many times over, and then we can look into the minds of those who wrote it for the clues to why they would lie, or write semi and non truths about our history.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Romans. Ever since they took over, it's been a sideshow for religion, with hypocrisy and double standards being the norm for most trapped therein.

It went away with the Gnostics, and has yet to return(the true nature of Jesus and his teachings) and has been bastardized by the worlds so called christian religions for centuries.

Littleenki

[undo11]

littleenki

i've had the opportunity to see this question from many sides, primarily because i have been a non-christian, a fundie christian and a rather off the wall, fundie christian.  i've also study this subject from many angles, and i can tell ya right now, of all the religions on this planet, christianity is the only one that actually started treating females as if they had value above that of chattel.   for example:

in china, they killed their female children because they were considered maggots in the rice.  sons were required as part of the cultural tradition, to help their parents in their waning years.  whereas females, once married, were bound to their husband's family and had to help him with his parents.  so female children were often killed after they were born.  it got so bad, soon there were very few females left in all of china.  the young men, with no family to be concerned about and no prospect of ever having a female mate, formed roaming bands of warriors who ended up overthrowing the chinese empire.  but at what cost?

the hindus, as a result of vedic traditions regarding bridal dowry, killed so many of their female children at birth, that the only ones who had female companionship were the maharajis.  these maharajis would go to war against each other, and take each other's women.  so they began to gather all the women in the kingdom in the center of the city, young, old, infants, and burn them alive, rather than let the invaders have them.

both of these cultures still do this kind of thing today, even though their governments have outlawed it.  in fact, the 1 child policy has resulted in the registered deaths of millions of unborn females, fforcibly aborted by government writ, and millions more secretly killed by their own mothers.

and we haven't even got to female circumsion, which is actually female genital mutilation.  the idea being that if the woman has no clitoris, she won't be interested in cheating on her man, even if he's a maniac.

in greece, they prefered male companionship to female, and formed a complex social order based on pedarasty.  female children were often killed or simply starved to death after birth.

did i mention what the old testament jews did to women?  or the muslims?   or what about stalin, hitler, mao?  we gonna talk about
some insane killing, let's start with the really big guns.  the ones that have deliberately and methodically killled, down thru the course of history, female children specifically, for no crime other than being born female. 

[Linda Brown]

I don't let the Christian Ethic off that lightly. They may not have starved or disposed of their women but women were nothing more than a husbands property.  or their fathers responsibility until he could offer enough dowry to get them off his hands.... And Christianity is a Paternalistic religion.... They don't say.... "Our Father"...for no reason. And the only reason that the Virgin Mary got a passing nod by the church is that they needed someone to stand for the "Mother Earth" to the new Christians drawn in from their Pagan upbringings. She fulfilled a purpose....

So I am just throwing a marker down. Women have gotten a raw deal.... for a very long time.   Linda

[The Matrix Traveller]

in china, they killed their female children because they were considered maggots in the rice.  sons were required as part of the cultural tradition, to help their parents in their waning years.  whereas females, once married, were bound to their husband's family and had to help him with his parents.  so female children were often killed after they were born.  it got so bad, soon there were very few females left in all of china.  the young men, with no family to be concerned about and no prospect of ever having a female mate, formed roaming bands of warriors who ended up overthrowing the chinese empire.  but at what cost?

Isn't is funny what the western world believes about China.

I was married under Chinese Law!
Our Marriage certificate is in China.

When I lived in China I saw more woman in the streets than men.   

[undo11]

I don't let the Christian Ethic off that lightly. They may not have starved or disposed of their women but women were nothing more than a husbands property.  or their fathers responsibility until he could offer enough dowry to get them off his hands.... And Christianity is a Paternalistic religion.... They don't say.... "Our Father"...for no reason. And the only reason that the Virgin Mary got a passing nod by the church is that they needed someone to stand for the "Mother Earth" to the new Christians drawn in from their Pagan upbringings. She fulfilled a purpose....

So I am just throwing a marker down. Women have gotten a raw deal.... for a very long time.   Linda

i have no doubt whatsoever that christians have, over the centuries, paid like very little attention to what was said about women by jesus. he said there's no more male or female, slave or free, etc, for all are one in christ jesus.  he took a female to the front of synagogue had her speak to the men, which was a big no-no.   women weren't allowed on the same floor, much less in the front talking.  some of them even tripped over their own robes to avoid looking at women. 

why jesus' approach to women was ignored alot is probably to keep the christian men from being accused of being pussy whipped into submission by their women, since every other culture probably thought they were crazy.  even the vikings treated their women like crap.

to atheists like the communists, women are looked at like heads of cattle, and if there are too many calves, just take out the heifers. 

you get the idea.  there's no place on this planet truly safe for women but i feel a heckuvalot safer here than i would anywhere else.

[undo11]

Isn't is funny what the western world believes about China.

I was married under Chinese Law!
Our Marriage certificate is in China.

When I lived in China I saw more woman in the streets than men.   

that's odd since every newspaper and humanitarian org on the planet is complaining about the situation for female children over there.  might explain why the orphanges are filled with female children, almost exclusively.  maybe you're seeing the generation that's alive now, but give it 20 years, and the ones that were aborted, won't be there.  and those streets are gonna look pretty male.

[Captain Dave]

Men, Women... Are both not equal? Different reproductive organs but not much difference otherwise.

Throughout all of history have not both been shown capable of treachery & honor... love & hate... lies & truth... gentleness & brutality?

Where is the big difference? Ah, yes - societal ruling class laws. Who makes the laws? People who don't have to worry about following them.

We are all a product of our experiences and environment. Will we ever achieve balance? Well, our record isn't looking very good so far.

Perhaps perfection is in the imperfection and things are exactly as they are meant to be? The World I dream of is nothing like this, but I am small and the mountain is large. I've tried to move the mountain with faith, but when it started dropping boulders I quit.

I envy Noah and his people, the World must have been a Paradise without all the over complication! I know, that's probably wrong to say, but it's still the truth.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective and which one you're living.

[undo11]

Men, Women... Are both not equal? Different reproductive organs but not much difference otherwise.

Throughout all of history have not both been shown capable of treachery & honor... love & hate... lies & truth... gentleness & brutality?

Where is the big difference? Ah, yes - societal ruling class laws. Who makes the laws? People who don't have to worry about following them.

We are all a product of our experiences and environment. Will we ever achieve balance? Well, our record isn't looking very good so far.

Perhaps perfection is in the imperfection and things are exactly as they are meant to be? The World I dream of is nothing like this, but I am small and the mountain is large. I've tried to move the mountain with faith, but when it started dropping boulders I quit.

I envy Noah and his people, the World must have been a Paradise without all the over complication! I know, that's probably wrong to say, but it's still the truth.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective and which one you're living.

that's thought provoking concept: et.al, noah's time being paradiscal. in the sumerian-akkadian version, is isn't some normal guy on the street who gets rescued from the flood by enki, but rather the king of sumer lol 

[The Matrix Traveller]

Hi undo11,

If you are referring to abortions you may be right, but this happens in most Countries now Sadly.

Sometimes illegally, but in some Countries it is legal as in NZ.

So its NOT just in China.

Is Abortion legal in the U.S. ?

[undo11]

Hi undo11,

If you are referring to abortions you may be right, but this happens in most Countries now Sadly.

Sometimes illegally, but in some Countries it is legal as in NZ.

So its NOT just in China.

Is Abortion legal in the U.S. ?

yep. 

what the issue is, is because of the traditional customs and religion of the people of china, they prefer boy children. so when told they could only have 1 child and any others would have to be avoided by using contraceptives, such as forced IUDs or abortion, most of them chose to abort any female children.  originally, they were told the gender of the child, so they could make a choice.  after like 10 years of something like 80% of all female fetuses being aborted,, the chinese government made it illegal to tell the parents the baby's gender.  so now they go to private, back street doctors, sympathetic to their plight. 

some opt to go ahead and have the female child and just not tell the government that they have them, but then that female doesn't qualify for any government services, so if they get sick, they can't be taken to  government doctors.  they get no schooling, no doctors, and become essentially lower than the family pet.  and then they try again for a boy child.

alot of the female babies are just left in the street after they're delivered in those back street doctor's offices or by some neighborhood midwife.

it's an odd situation and a horrible one too.  parents of boy children are now looking ahead and realizing their little boy is not going to have a way to pass on the family name.   it's already starting to impact remote areas, and they are opting to kidnap other people's female children, going as far as crossing over into surrounding nations in search of future wives for their boys.  there are whole villages where there are no female children, at all.

[undo11]