NASA Federal Lawsuit: Does NASA "Promote Religion Masquerading as Science?

[undo11]

ama

oh i think that's the big premise of his entire case. he first states without hesitation, that there are no ETs mentioned in the bible or the tanakh. then he says that christians who run nasa are withholding information because it might prove their religion wrong.  yet when you watch a group of skeptics banging away at the subject of doctored  nasa photos or ets, they are often also found banging away at religion as well. 

so don't blame me if i think his premise is flawed, in that the rationale for withholding evidence is to keep it from being proved otherwise, as if microbes from space could disprove intelligent design.  there's no one size fits all version of this data, so when someone says there is, i know they have an agenda, and when i say one size fits all, i mean suggesting that evolution plays no role or evolution plays the only role, both positions, are not only unprovable, but rather extreme in the face of evidence like mutating immune functions, natural camoflage mutations and etc, or evidence that such things can and have been tinkered with genetically, not only in our "modern time" but in the past as well. 

in effect, he's tossing whole groups of people under the bus, under a false premise

[zorgon]

How about starting here

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2012/06/nro-gives-nasa.html

The U.S. government's secret space program has decided to give NASA two telescopes as big as, and even more powerful than, the Hubble Space Telescope. Designed for surveillance, the telescopes from the National Reconnaissance Office were no longer needed for spy missions and can now be used to study the heavens.

Cool we always knew there were at lest two Hubbles but three? and bigger?  So WHAT were they using them for? Hubble optics are not set for looking at Earth or the moon (they claim) only for long distance observayion

So what were the NRO satellites looking at
Why do they no longer need them> Maybe some of those heavy lifter rockets have sent up bigger ones?

LOL would love to pop in to ATS and say "We told you so"

[zorgon]

in effect, he's tossing whole groups of people under the bus, under a false premise

So effectively replacing one falsehood with another falsehood to further confuddle us?

Seems about right. You have to stir things ever few years or the audience gets bored

[undo11]

So effectively replacing one falsehood with another falsehood to further confuddle us?

Seems about right. You have to stir things ever few years or the audience gets bored

what?  there's no way to prove intelligent design wrong and there's no way to prove evolution wrong. both of these things have been observed in modern times.  we know there are no scientific laws that exclude them from happening, so to state it must be one way or the other with no other option, is the befuddlng part.  are you suggesting there's no evidence for intelligent design?

[Linda Brown]

I am trying very hard to control myself here Undo , If I sound sharp with you.... then I am saying I am sorry in advance. Maybe two or three times.

Get your head out of the sand and look at what is happening here. Do you see it? You are so busy trying to prove your case against what this gentleman said.... that you are not even LOOKING at what is being talked about here.... just slightly under the surface.

And Zorgon. Of course, NRO never gives anything up without a trade off.... and those two big spy birds have been up there for a long time.... looking at Earth.... but now suddenly they need more help watching the skys!!!!!  I am not being chicken little here folks. If the NRO is turning more eyes outward.... you KNOW this is not just whimsy.

Lets not get caught up in petty bickering. We don't have time for it!

And Mikado.... thats my message to you too.  Linda

[undo11]

linda

I am trying very hard to control myself here Undo

then pm me your criticism of the facts as you see them.  cause this issue doesn't say a thing about nro vs nasa. it does accuse nasa of being a christian/jewish organization that is deliberately hiding evidence of evolution.  i'm addressing the actual issue, you're trying to change the subject.  sorry it's so uncomfortable to learn that the stereotypes you've been reading for the last 10 years aren't true afterall.

i want nasa to reveal the truth that they have, but i don't want it to be as a result of a very prejudice inquiry, as it will just add fuel to the already near psychotic belief that christians and/or jews are to blame for everything on the planet that goes wrong.

[Amaterasu]

The Cosmic Muffin was the name of the boat that a character by the name of Desdemona owned in one of Jimmy Buffetts books. He sings about her..... I think that I just mentioned her slapping the water to draw the entities to her......

Hello to what I call the grand cosmic haha.   Linda

Radio Dinner was an album that came out in the early 1970's.  I bet that is where He got the idea for naming the ship in the book.

[Linda Brown]

I am sure thats right. His character would have liked that piece of work. appropriate.

Linda

[Amaterasu]

ama

oh i think that's the big premise of his entire case. he first states without hesitation, that there are no ETs mentioned in the bible or the tanakh. then he says that christians who run nasa are withholding information because it might prove their religion wrong.  yet when you watch a group of skeptics banging away at the subject of doctored  nasa photos or ets, they are often also found banging away at religion as well. 

so don't blame me if i think his premise is flawed, in that the rationale for withholding evidence is to keep it from being proved otherwise, as if microbes from space could disprove intelligent design.  there's no one size fits all version of this data, so when someone says there is, i know they have an agenda, and when i say one size fits all, i mean suggesting that evolution plays no role or evolution plays the only role, both positions, are not only unprovable, but rather extreme in the face of evidence like mutating immune functions, natural camoflage mutations and etc, or evidence that such things can and have been tinkered with genetically, not only in our "modern time" but in the past as well. 

in effect, he's tossing whole groups of people under the bus, under a false premise

May I point out that the Bible, as translated to English, does indeed make no mention of ET.  The fact that things are described such that a step back makes it pretty clear that is what is being REFERRED to is irrelevant.  The man spoke the truth.  And also was making it clear these People believe that there is no evidence in what They read, taking the words literally - i.e., a "chariot" was a chariot...

So I am not seeing where You are taking issue.

[undo11]

ama

how can it be there and not be there at the same time? 
it's there but only under the condition that no christian says so.
it's not there, if a christian says so.   i say it's there. i'm a christian
you say no, it isnt.  but if you look at it, and you are not a christian,
it does say so. 

oh my god, it's worse than i thought.  this is a very sad day for me. excuse me while i go freak out somewhere else.

[zorgon]

And Zorgon. Of course, NRO never gives anything up without a trade off.... and those two big spy birds have been up there for a long time.... looking at Earth.... but now suddenly they need more help watching the skys!!!!!  I am not being chicken little here folks. If the NRO is turning more eyes outward.... you KNOW this is not just whimsy.

A long time ago in a far away forum

John and I spoke a lot about secret astronauts, secret space planes and even more than one Hubble. All those years we were called crazy, lunatics etc and people demanded proof. John even got banned over it at the time..

Then along comes PBS NOVA and two weeks before I posted my pages on the Secret Astronauts at ATS they do a fantastic special called "ASTROSPIES" and lo and behold... there is the secret astronaut corps exposed.

Later I added the mega thread about the Naval Space Command

Now suddenly the skeptics were silent... now suddenly its old news.
We spoke of secret space planes years ago... now the skeptics are tracking one of those and NASA announced that an amateur sky watcher had first spotted their Secret space plane. The second one is now back down but you can track them here
http://www.n2yo.com/?s=33506

John told us years ago about at least one other Hubble up there... now today its common knowledge on NASA watch that the NRO gave up two of them... likely because they sent up bigger and better ones

So now tell me how they have kept the Saucer Fleet secret since Roswell

Point is folks, you heard it here first... and didn't believe

THAT is what we try do here

[zorgon]

what?  there's no way to prove intelligent design wrong and there's no way to prove evolution wrong. both of these things have been observed in modern times.  we know there are no scientific laws that exclude them from happening, so to state it must be one way or the other with no other option, is the befuddlng part.  are you suggesting there's no evidence for intelligent design?

There is no proof that either is right either and the "intelligent design" I see in the Universe does not coincide with your religious beliefs. I neither apologize for my belief, nor do I deny you the right to believe as you choose

However I have no intention of turning this thread into another religious debate. Pimander simply posted an article he found both interesting and significant. You stated your reasons for not supporting the lawsuit in the first post. Can we not just leave it at that?

[zorgon]

I agree that there are plenty of texts that mention what looks like ETs.  However, I was posting to show that NASA are being accused of a cover-up.

I agree and its a great post

I think it is fascinating that someone is considering taking NASA to court over an "alleged" cover-up of data.

I agree and the subject of this thread..

Lets try to keep it on that focus

[Amaterasu]

ama

how can it be there and not be there at the same time? 
it's there but only under the condition that no christian says so.
it's not there, if a christian says so.   i say it's there. i'm a christian
you say no, it isnt.  but if you look at it, and you are not a christian,
it does say so. 

oh my god, it's worse than i thought.  this is a very sad day for me. excuse me while i go freak out somewhere else.

It's there for Those whose minds are open to see it.  Some want to believe the earth is the singular  and most important work of God.  They WILL NOT SEE, in the descriptions, what is being described.

So.  Because there is no specifically stated line, like, "Verily, cometh down from stars afar Beings that God created on other earths," One can believe that the earth is the only inhabited place in the universe, and any passage that, to open-minded christians is evidence of ET, will be seen only as "God magic."

The Bibles does not say, specifically, that there were any creation of Beings but Us here on this planet.  And so, it is true to say so.

[undo11]

It's there for Those whose minds are open to see it.  Some want to believe the earth is the singular  and most important work of God.  They WILL NOT SEE, in the descriptions, what is being described.

So.  Because there is no specifically stated line, like, "Verily, cometh down from stars afar Beings that God created on other earths," One can believe that the earth is the only inhabited place in the universe, and any passage that, to open-minded christians is evidence of ET, will be seen only as "God magic."

The Bibles does not say, specifically, that there were any creation of Beings but Us here on this planet.  And so, it is true to say so.

i'm not going to post my response cause z has asked me not to.  you have my response already, anyway.  and you chose to answer it that way.  all i can say is, whatever.    pardon me now, i'm off to go sulk and freak out that prc hates my religion so badly, i'm not even allowed to see what i see in the text. only they are allowed to see it.  that's NEW.  like brand new.  as in, holey rusted metal batman.