Decriminalisation of Drugs and Cannabis

[Amaterasu]

Yep, thats true..self medicating!
LOL!

Self or otherwise, the motive to "get high" is most often a desire to alleviate stress.  For some, like SWIM, it's pain relief.

[Littleenki]

Self or otherwise, the motive to "get high" is most often a desire to alleviate stress.  For some, like SWIM, it's pain.

Ive heard that alot..for me it always made me feel pain more..especially cramps from Chi Gong and yoga!

Everyones different though..too bad it isnt available where you are like Cali!


Cheers!

[Amaterasu]

Ive heard that alot..for me it always made me feel pain more..especially cramps from Chi Gong and yoga!

Everyones different though..too bad it isnt available where you are like Cali!


Cheers!

Agreed.  On all counts.

[Primus58]

You are aware that "just wanting to get high" is treating stress, right?

Well, technically, it's the act of getting high that treats stress; the 'want' can cause more stress, especially if the herb isn't available!

For some it causes more stress. But it can also be argued that the want or need to get high is another way of sweeping a larger issue under the carpet, where the 'high' is temporary, delaying treatment of a root cause. I would submit acupuncture as far more effective than pot, especially for pain. For those with cancer, pot is very effective, especially those who've decided to poison themselves with chemo. Again, for some, pot enhances the pain. I think pot is very harmful for younger people whose brains aren't fully developed, not so much chemically as psychologically; for many it drains them of motivation and ambition, and money. Pretty soon, any challenge is met with escaping instead of facing it and growing. Unfortunately this is fact for many pot smokers. I know through experience... LOL!

[Dood]

Marijuana is so POTENT now a days.
I remember back in the Olden Days marijuana was not all that 'strong'.

Unless you got your hands on some Thai-Stick or some REAL Columbian/Jamaican/Panama-Red, etc...


"Those were the days my friend that we thought would never end...." 


Now a days it is that Hydroponic Marijuana that kicks yer buttocks.


It is not my thing anymore.  My only vice in any regard now is simply Marlboro Mediums.
An occasional Crown Royal on the rocks on those days my arthritis is really flaring up.


'Meet the Pain' is how it was describe to me.
Especially for things like Pain Medication.  Oxycontin, Vicodin, etc...
People can freak out about those medications and not really know anything about them.
If you live in Chronic Pain then taking medications like Oxy or Vicodin ONLY help you 'Feel Normal'.
Or at least closer to that.  NOTHING kills all of the pain.


People that are having Chemo-therapy feel better smoking or ingesting Marijuana because it will settle their stomachs.


I have no problem with decriminalizing Marijuana at all.
Especially since our government seems to support and/or subsidize the Poppy Manufacture in Afghanistan. 
Read the book: 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' by John Perkins to learn about how our government 'Runs Drugs' into this country.
It is an interesting read....
IF they really wanted to stem the tide on drugs then they could have decades ago...

[zorgon]

IF they really wanted to stem the tide on drugs then they could have decades ago...

Then the CIA would need to get it's funding from us taxpayers instead

[Amaterasu]

Well, technically, it's the act of getting high that treats stress; the 'want' can cause more stress, especially if the herb isn't available!

I disagree, overall.  SWIM suggests that it is not much stress at all.  From SWIM's experience.  Unlike things like cocaine, heroin and the like, it's more a wistful missing, but not a focus all the time.

For some it causes more stress.

Oh, I'm sure there is some percentage - much like some People are allergic to aspirin.

But it can also be argued that the want or need to get high is another way of sweeping a larger issue under the carpet, where the 'high' is temporary, delaying treatment of a root cause.

And it can be argued that a "treatment of a root cause" usually is through meds which addict, or destroy the liver, or the kidneys, or cause death...  Most often it has to do with seeing the crazy world and being disempowered.  Better to use a natural drug with no negative side effects that has caused zero deaths...ever.

I would submit acupuncture as far more effective than pot, especially for pain.

For inflammatory issues, which recur, cannabis is far more cost effective - and sometimes One receives it free...  SWIM can't afford regular visits to an acupuncturist.

For those with cancer, pot is very effective, especially those who've decided to poison themselves with chemo.

True.

Again, for some, pot enhances the pain.

Again, some are allergic to aspirin.

I think pot is very harmful for younger people whose brains aren't fully developed, not so much chemically as psychologically; for many it drains them of motivation and ambition, and money.

For Me, the jury is still out on this.  I have met a number of adolescents who used and were highly creative (no pun), eager to create, and diligent.  Not sure why You threw money in that list...  It goes without saying One usually has to buy it.

Pretty soon, any challenge is met with escaping instead of facing it and growing.

SWIM and a number of People I know discovered solution while medicated.  Not "escaping."  More looking at the universe from a different perspective.  Even Carl Sagan stated that His most creative work was done under the influence of cannabis.

Unfortunately this is fact for many pot smokers. I know through experience... LOL!

And from MY experience, it may be true of some - but not really a much greater percentage than of non-users.  Surely no reason to keep it from the populace of this planet.  Or even much worry about it. 

[Amaterasu]

Marijuana is so POTENT now a days.

That's why SWIM uses less of it now.

[Primus58]

I disagree, overall.  SWIM suggests that it is not much stress at all.  From SWIM's experience.  Unlike things like cocaine, heroin and the like, it's more a wistful missing, but not a focus all the time.

First off, I don't know who SWIM is, but it doesn't sound they're very honest or in the know. Your original statement was that just WANTING pot would relieve stress, so yes, technically you were wrong! How can a desire cure stress?

Oh, I'm sure there is some percentage - much like some People are allergic to aspirin.

Wrong, I'm not talking allergic reaction; many people have adverse effects from pot, including paranoia, depression, and anxiety, this is more true for the stronger varieties. I'm talking about the psychoactive influence, not an allergic response.

And it can be argued that a "treatment of a root cause" usually is through meds which addict, or destroy the liver, or the kidneys, or cause death...  Most often it has to do with seeing the crazy world and being disempowered.  Better to use a natural drug with no negative side effects that has caused zero deaths...ever.

Here, you totally miss my point! I'm not talking about medication, I am talking about facing issues head on with counseling and therapy. I apologize, I wasn't clear on that! I was not talking about medicine. Trust me, I know how well pot covers things over, and how many kids and adults have wasted years using it!

For inflammatory issues, which recur, cannabis is far more cost effective - and sometimes One receives it free...  SWIM can't afford regular visits to an acupuncturist.

Who the hell is SWIM? I disagree, I found more relief through 5 Element Acupuncture, and, it's way more affordable than high grade pot, especially when you consider the legal risks (which is stupid)! Of course, if you know the right person it could be free. Never heard of it help inflammation, never did for me, but I take your word that it does for some. After crashing a Honda 750 at 80mph in the mountains, I know about chronic pain; pot NEVER helped!


Again, some are allergic to aspirin.

No, that is a specious argument. I know of many people who hyper-focus because of pot, and it makes the pain worse, again, the aspirin analogy is way out of context; I was not talking about allergies, but, some people are allergic to pot, the red eyes speak wonders!

For Me, the jury is still out on this.  I have met a number of adolescents who used and were highly creative (no pun), eager to create, and diligent.  Not sure why You threw money in that list...  It goes without saying One usually has to buy it.

It sounds to me you're not being honest about the adverse effects of pot. Great, so we have many creative high school dropouts! It's also true, that while many are creative on pot, there are many young kids who dropped out of school because they decided to party, and usually got into heavier drugs. An adult mind is more capable of making wise decisions and using in moderation. The money I mention because most kids aren't using their own money, and for a kid who should be learning in school, spending money on pot is bad. I think the case could be made pot impairs one's ability to learn, and for young brains not fully developed, it's an unrealistic treatment for those that are healthy.

SWIM and a number of People I know discovered solution while medicated.  Not "escaping."  More looking at the universe from a different perspective.  Even Carl Sagan stated that His most creative work was done under the influence of cannabis.

SWIM again, what the hell? Look, I know what you're saying, but the creativity aspect is merely a side effect of a fun high which MOST use as an escape, not as medicine. I'd be curious to know what solutions they discovered... LOL, how to make brownies with marshmallow topping. Give me a break, I know the life of stoners, I was one... so much wasted time.. man oh man! But I admit, some of my best music, art, and writing came from high-times. Incidentally, most of the astronomers we knew thought Sagan was a hack. I am referring to Cal Tech, Mt. Wilson & Palomar Observatories of which my dad was Assistant Director. Alan Sandage used to come over for dinner, too bad I was a young kid and couldn't appreciate who he was.

And from MY experience, it may be true of some - but not really a much greater percentage than of non-users.  Surely no reason to keep it from the populace of this planet.  Or even much worry about it.

Nowhere did I suggest keeping it from the populace (as though anyone could... LOL), I am for legalization! I am AGAINST people buying drugs, especially illegal drugs. One reason I grew was the ethic; I did not want any of my money to be used as blood money; whenever someone purchases drugs that come across our borders, they are supporting murder; and this is another good reason to legalize!

[kdog]

I use it on a daily basis to self-medicate my ADHD.

Let's just say I perform better in life and at work then when I go without for months or years.

Much like having a beer or cocktail when you get home from work,in very small quantities,much like everything else, moderation,does wonders.

[Primus58]

I use it on a daily basis to self-medicate my ADHD.

Let's just say I perform better in life and at work then when I go without for months or years.

Much like having a beer or cocktail when you get home from work,in very small quantities,much like everything else, moderation,does wonders.

Funny, my experience is it makes ADD (not HD), far worse. LOL, I'm all ready to start a task, then I get sidetracked, and again, and again until it wears off!

Yes, many people cope with life better using artificial means to escape reality. For me, moderation was elusive... 1 beer always turned into 15. The stash I grew was directly from a biologist who grew a Cannabis Cup winner, an F1 of Northern Lights and Cali Orange, that sweet oily reef. True healing from weed comes from using it raw! Psychological healing can be very spiritual, on the other hand, pot can also inhibit and interfere with metaphysical practices. one thing for sure, I never liked to be stoned in public, no way! I was one of those who were very self-conscious on weed, and it was due to psychological issues from PTSD.

True strength is going without ANY crutch like alcohol or pot! It's then a person has to face the issues that make them drink.

[Amaterasu]

I disagree, overall.  SWIM suggests that it is not much stress at all.  From SWIM's experience.  Unlike things like cocaine, heroin and the like, it's more a wistful missing, but not a focus all the time.

First off, I don't know who SWIM is, but it doesn't sound they're very honest or in the know. Your original statement was that just WANTING pot would relieve stress, so yes, technically you were wrong! How can a desire cure stress?

SWIM is an acronym for SomeOne Who Isn't Me.  [nudge, nudge, wink, wink]  I think I can speak to SWIM's honesty and in-the-knowedness.  And You misread My intent there just a bit, didn't You?

Oh, I'm sure there is some percentage - much like some People are allergic to aspirin.

Wrong, I'm not talking allergic reaction; many people have adverse effects from pot, including paranoia, depression, and anxiety, this is more true for the stronger varieties. I'm talking about the psychoactive influence, not an allergic response.

I'm not speaking of an allergic response either.  I'm comparing percentages.  And virtually all paranoia and anxiety is caused by the illegality, NOT the drug itself.  And, in fact, by far the largest percentage of People with depression and who use cannabis, TREAT depression effectively.

And it can be argued that a "treatment of a root cause" usually is through meds which addict, or destroy the liver, or the kidneys, or cause death...  Most often it has to do with seeing the crazy world and being disempowered.  Better to use a natural drug with no negative side effects that has caused zero deaths...ever.

Here, you totally miss my point! I'm not talking about medication, I am talking about facing issues head on with counseling and therapy. I apologize, I wasn't clear on that! I was not talking about medicine. Trust me, I know how well pot covers things over, and how many kids and adults have wasted years using it!

Well, I'm here to tell You that spending a stressful day and coming home to a bowl is NOT going to be solved by " facing issues head on with counseling and therapy."  The treatment of cannabis is just fine.  And by percentages, that is how most People use it who are treating stress.  Like some do with martinis.  (Or would You say THOSE People need to " fac[e] issues head on with counseling and therapy?"

For inflammatory issues, which recur, cannabis is far more cost effective - and sometimes One receives it free...  SWIM can't afford regular visits to an acupuncturist.

Who the hell is SWIM? I disagree, I found more relief through 5 Element Acupuncture, and, it's way more affordable than high grade pot, especially when you consider the legal risks (which is stupid)! Of course, if you know the right person it could be free. Never heard of it help inflammation, never did for me, but I take your word that it does for some. After crashing a Honda 750 at 80mph in the mountains, I know about chronic pain; pot NEVER helped!

See above on SWIM.  I never said it helped inflammation.  I said it helped THE PAIN.  And SWIM has a rheumatological condition, and cannabis helps TREMENDOUSLY.  Just because You did not find relief does NOT follow that no One else does.  Again, some People gain relief from aspirin; Others are allergic.  It is numbers.  Far more People DO find pain relief than don't.

Again, some are allergic to aspirin.

No, that is a specious argument. I know of many people who hyper-focus because of pot, and it makes the pain worse, again, the aspirin analogy is way out of context; I was not talking about allergies, but, some people are allergic to pot, the red eyes speak wonders!

Its to express that We are all different.  Because You can find People for which it is not true does NOT follow that it's not true for everyOne.  In fact, by all the tests, literature, testimonies, studies, and so on, those People You are describing are in a very small minority.

For Me, the jury is still out on this.  I have met a number of adolescents who used and were highly creative (no pun), eager to create, and diligent.  Not sure why You threw money in that list...  It goes without saying One usually has to buy it.

It sounds to me you're not being honest about the adverse effects of pot. Great, so we have many creative high school dropouts! It's also true, that while many are creative on pot, there are many young kids who dropped out of school because they decided to party, and usually got into heavier drugs. An adult mind is more capable of making wise decisions and using in moderation. The money I mention because most kids aren't using their own money, and for a kid who should be learning in school, spending money on pot is bad. I think the case could be made pot impairs one's ability to learn, and for young brains not fully developed, it's an unrealistic treatment for those that are healthy.

It sounds to Me like You may be believing propaganda...  And where did I say "dropouts?"  These are kids who are in school and getting reasonable to excellent grades.  And yes, some kids drop out.  Some are not successful.  Some choose alcohol.  Some choose other things.  That does NOT follow that all kids are like that.  Numbers, again.

The kids *I* have met worked at McSatan and Buger Thing and Jamba Juice and had Their own money.  And actually, there is no non-government/corporate sponsored studies showing it impares One's ability to learn.

SWIM and a number of People I know discovered solution while medicated.  Not "escaping."  More looking at the universe from a different perspective.  Even Carl Sagan stated that His most creative work was done under the influence of cannabis.

SWIM again, what the hell? Look, I know what you're saying, but the creativity aspect is merely a side effect of a fun high which MOST use as an escape, not as medicine.

What is this "escape?"  SWIM has not escaped.  SWIM has found that it relaxes SWIM enough to deal with issues.  AND SWIM DOES use it as medicine.

I'd be curious to know what solutions they discovered...

SWIM found ways to deal with financial issues...

LOL, how to make brownies with marshmallow topping. Give me a break, I know the life of stoners, I was one... so much wasted time.. man oh man!

So sorry to hear.  SWIM too knows the lives of MANY who use cannabis.  Only two sound like You.

But I admit, some of my best music, art, and writing came from high-times.

Was that time wasted, then?

Incidentally, most of the astronomers we knew thought Sagan was a hack. I am referring to Cal Tech, Mt. Wilson & Palomar Observatories of which my dad was Assistant Director. Alan Sandage used to come over for dinner, too bad I was a young kid and couldn't appreciate who he was.

Well, Cornell surely did not hold those views of Him.  Who knows what political machinations were afoot, eh?  People tend to speak poorly of Those who may be a threat to Them or Their pet theory.  Can hardly pin the use of cannabis as the reason for these People's views...

And from MY experience, it may be true of some - but not really a much greater percentage than of non-users.  Surely no reason to keep it from the populace of this planet.  Or even much worry about it.

Nowhere did I suggest keeping it from the populace (as though anyone could... LOL), I am for legalization!

Cool!

I am AGAINST people buying drugs, especially illegal drugs. One reason I grew was the ethic; I did not want any of my money to be used as blood money; whenever someone purchases drugs that come across our borders, they are supporting murder; and this is another good reason to legalize!

Only because it's ILLEGAL.  I will not support an UNETHICAL "law."  Especially where MY happiness and comfort are at odds with it.  And a large percentage of cannabis is grown right here by that nice old farmer down the road...it turns out.

[Amaterasu]

Funny, my experience is it makes ADD (not HD), far worse. LOL, I'm all ready to start a task, then I get sidetracked, and again, and again until it wears off!

Yes, many people cope with life better using artificial means to escape reality. For me, moderation was elusive... 1 beer always turned into 15. The stash I grew was directly from a biologist who grew a Cannabis Cup winner, an F1 of Northern Lights and Cali Orange, that sweet oily reef. True healing from weed comes from using it raw! Psychological healing can be very spiritual, on the other hand, pot can also inhibit and interfere with metaphysical practices. one thing for sure, I never liked to be stoned in public, no way! I was one of those who were very self-conscious on weed, and it was due to psychological issues from PTSD.

[sigh]  MANY People with ADD find it helps.  That You did not does not make it so for everyOne.  In fact, treating BOTH ADD and ADHD are on the list of things research has shown it will treat in MOST (not ALL).

[Primus58]

[sigh]  MANY People with ADD find it helps.  That You did not does not make it so for everyOne.  In fact, treating BOTH ADD and ADHD are on the list of things research has shown it will treat in MOST (not ALL).

Show me the stats on that! Experts on ADD have noted a serious problem with ADD and pot, non-government studies add! For most it's true. But, and here it's my turn to sigh, I never said it doesn't help others! you are putting words in my mouth!

I am not anti-pot. But you have to be honest about some of the detrimental effects of pot. It does cause damage and ruin lives. The help it serves is only a temporary psychological crutch. The true benefit comes from raw cannabis, and I mean healing cancer and other maladies.

[petrus4]

Any I suspect Your studies are not realistic...  Agree to disagree.  [smile]

Amy, I think it's important to understand that in this particular case, scientific studies are sadly not going to be much use to us, either way.  The reason why, is because people grossly overestimate scientific objectivity.  Experiments themselves can be completely impartial, yes; but unfortunately said experiments are conducted by human beings, who are not.

So you could have the DEA sponsoring one study or set of studies, the findings of which will simply serve to confirm their bias; that marijuana is bad/toxic etc.  Then you might have another study, which either claims to be neutral/independent, or which is funded by someone who is sympathetic towards marijuana, which will find that it is beneficial.

Compounding this problem, is what I've read about the more recent findings in quantum physics; which suggest that the outcome of an experiment may, in real terms, genuinely be affected by the observer and their expectations.  So I suspect this can happen, even where full impartiality is present, and no corruption as such is meant.