The Center of the Universe

[Littleenki]

Indeed, Amy, ONE it is, or shall I say ONE we are!:)

And Zorgon you hit the nail on the head.

Galileo was the perfect example of how one can know while the rest assume.

Silly RCC!

As you put so well, can a God create a rock too heavy for him to lift?

That my friend is a great question, Z!

May I attempt an answer?

As God is all of us, in order to create a rock too heavy to lift for all of us would be impossible, as our collective conscious continues to grow, and sooner or later the unliftable rock would be the size of a pea after our mentalism has expanded our universe to the point where it would be very small.

Once the rock has been created, it would be a matter of our growth into a stronger One mind until we lifted it high above our heads with little effort.

Of course the rock is a metaphor, right?

How is that Croation friend doing these days? did he ever get it?

Cheers!

[The Matrix Traveller]

Ever thought;
It may be, that All exists in a "Non Dimensional" World involving "Concepts"
and the result of Communication between the 2 Ends of the mind existing in a network
of Conceptual "Partitions" of the One "Non Dimensional" Entity ?

[Littleenki]

Indeed, Amy, ONE it is, or shall I say ONE we are!:)

And Zorgon you hit the nail on the head.

Galileo was the perfect example of how one can know while the rest assume.

Silly RCC!

As you put so well, can a God create a rock too heavy for him to lift?

That my friend is a great question, Z!

May I attempt an answer?

As God is all of us, in order to create a rock too heavy to lift for all of us would be impossible, as our collective conscious continues to grow, and sooner or later the unliftable rock would be the size of a pea after our mentalism has expanded our universe to the point where it would be very small.

Once the rock has been created, it would be a matter of our growth into a stronger One mind until we lifted it high above our heads with little effort.

Of course the rock is a metaphor, right?

How is that Croation friend doing these days? did he ever get it?

Cheers!

[zorgon]

How is that Croation friend doing these days? did he ever get it?

His answer was "I am not meant to know the answer to that"

I felt bad, I didn't know it had bothered him that long

But he did teach me the gem cutting business. I should probably step away from the computer and get back to that 

[Shasta56]

Hypothetically, if there is a "God" as Zorgon described, I think he could create a rock heavier than he could lift.  My question is, would he want to?  This is not meant to offend any Christians here, I'm a long time Solitary Practitioner of Wicca, so I don't have a Christian point of view.

Respectfully,

Shasta

[Amaterasu]

Ever thought;
It may be, that All exists in a "Non Dimensional" World involving "Concepts"
and the result of Communication between the 2 Ends of the mind existing in a network
of Conceptual "Partitions" of the One "Non Dimensional" Entity ?

Indeed.  With Your help.  [smile]  So that still would make "everywhere" the "center," right?

[The Matrix Traveller]

Indeed.  With Your help.  [smile]  So that still would make "everywhere" the "center," right?

Indeed... You are NOT wrong...

[rdunk]

zorgon said,  "you should change that 'we'  to 'I'... you cannot know what someone else may or may not know. You can only speak for yourself.


I see your point, so I did "modify/edit" the reply to say, instead of "I", it now says "I and most reasonably "informed people".

zorgon said, " It was 'generally accepted' that the earth was flat... they were wrong

It was 'generally accepted' that the earth was the center of the solar system... they were wrong. Galileo was almost burned at the stake over that one. At least the RCC finally apologized to him, 600 years later".

zorgon, with those two statements, I do believe that you made my point about "not knowing peanuts" better than I did. Man didn't know peanuts about the universe way back when, as you pretty much said, and we really haven't come very far since then, relatively speaking!

Zorgon said, "Let me ask you this... if god is all powerfull and omnipotent, can he create a rock heavier than he can lift?  Don't rush into it... sit back and think about it... my Croatian Friend took two years before he gave up trying".


Zorgon, I am not rushing into the answer you asked for, but it is such a very simple proposition. My GOD is, as you say, "all powerful and omnipotent", and etc. and etc. So, to make this easy for all to understand, I am going to answer this question as in the first person, God to me.

God might say something like this, "my child, do you not know the power of your God? Do you not know that everything you see, except man, was created by my spoken Word? Do you not understand that I speak a thing and it is birthed, as was this World, and all creation? I tell a thing to move, and it moves by my Word.  My Word is above all else, and it shall prevail."

Again, those are my words about how God might answer, if I asked him that question. My short answer, is, God makes things and moves things by his Word, so size and weight just do not enter into the equation, with God! If you want proof of that, then I would refer you to a book called "The Bible", and you will find it right there! 

[Amaterasu]

No disrespect, rdunk, but the bible is one of the most contradictory pieces of prose I have encountered.  Thou shalt not kill...unless They are heathen...?  One example.

And like I said in another thread...  If God is, as You say, omnipotent, One might presume (S/He/It) could UNmake with a word...  So why a flood?  Why kill all the innocents and children, drowning Them?  Surely the babes in arms had not been so wicked that (S/He/It) felt drowning Them was the best course of action...  Why not say the word and all who had offended (Her/Him/It) could go *POOF* and leave the Ones (S/He/It) liked well enough?

I see in that book at least two "Gods."  One in the OT, which is spiteful, wrathful, capricious, conceited, and NOT omnipotent - and one in the NT who is kinder, gentler, and only a little conceited - and questionably omnipotent.  In both cases, though...the contradictions abound.

I appreciate You perspective, and see it works for You.  But I doubt it brings any proof of anything.

[zorgon]

zorgon, with those two statements, I do believe that you made my point about "not knowing peanuts" better than I did. Man didn't know peanuts about the universe way back when, as you pretty much said, and we really haven't come very far since then, relatively speaking!

You missed the point  Galileo knew  


My friend said;

"I am not meant to know the answer to that"


You said;

God might say something like this, "my child, do you not know the power of your God? Do you not know that everything you see, except man, was created by my spoken Word? Do you not understand that I speak a thing and it is birthed, as was this World, and all creation? I tell a thing to move, and it moves by my Word.  My Word is above all else, and it shall prevail."

Those both sound the same to me... neither one answers the question

Another preacher once told me;

"My son. it is not ours to question the word of God"

That didn't work for me either. If there was a god then he created me with the ability to ask that question. It is then reasonable to expect an answer from those people that claim they speak for him, is it not?

Again, those are my words about how God might answer, if I asked him that question.

Ah... so in other words, you don't know the answer 

My short answer, is, God makes things and moves things by his Word, so size and weight just do not enter into the equation, with God! If you want proof of that, then I would refer you to a book called "The Bible", and you will find it right there!

Oh but it does matter, because it is MY equation. As to pointing me to that book of yours, no the answer is not in there either... I looked. In case I missed it, perhaps you could point me to the relevant chapter?


But hey... it's okay. It's a philosophical question. I already have the answer   I just like to see if others can answer it

[Pimander]

The nature of God is a circle
of which the center is everywhere
and the circumference is nowhere.
-Empedocles

[Littleenki]

The nature of God is a circle
of which the center is everywhere
and the circumference is nowhere.
-Empedocles

Empedocles...the original renaiisance man? Probably!

I was stationed near Mt Etna in Sigonella, Sicily, and when we went to town, many of the old men at the courtyard would still discuss him and how he threw himself to the volcano. A cool story to say the least, his life. Many gallons of Fortissimo were quaffed while listening to those guys, and us young Navy kids were mesmerized by their wisdom.

So many of our philosophical basis' come form his work and words, dont they?

Earth, water, air, and fire...

Love and strife which explain the attraction, and separation, of matter...

From Wiki, which has a pretty good page on Empedocles...

As the best and original state, there was a time when the pure elements and the two powers co-existed in a condition of rest and inertness in the form of a sphere. The elements existed together in their purity, without mixture and separation, and the uniting power of Love predominated in the sphere: the separating power of Strife guarded the extreme edges of the sphere. Since that time, strife gained more sway and the bond which kept the pure elementary substances together in the sphere was dissolved. The elements became the world of phenomena we see today, full of contrasts and oppositions, operated on by both Love and Strife. The sphere being the embodiment of pure existence is the embodiment or representative of god. Empedocles assumed a cyclical universe whereby the elements return and prepare the formation of the sphere for the next period of the universe.

Im really glad you brought him up, Pimander, everyone can learn from Empedocles life and philosophy!

Cheers!

[Littleenki]

His answer was "I am not meant to know the answer to that"

I felt bad, I didn't know it had bothered him that long

But he did teach me the gem cutting business. I should probably step away from the computer and get back to that 

Aha, so you are a gemcutter?

Another interesting field Ive always wanted to add to my jewelry skills, but never had the time and money to begin.

I think if you wanted to do that, you could mix it in with the Forum, and research, but what I think you are best at, Zorgon, is sharing knowledge and showing us how to be aware of the information we are immersed in all around us.

A consumate teacher...no... professor, of many fields and disciplines whose purpose onthis tiny planet is clearly the advancement of man and woman into a realm of awareness, a noble cause for sure.

You, Zorgon are the gardener, and everyone else in your life are your plants, and from your caring touch, many have learned much from you through your voyage of honor in this field of learning.

Step back and look at the fruit of your labors, and as you may feel somedays the forum isnt rolling with the momentum you might have pictured it to, remember..... a rolling stone gathers no moss.

Take this as a token of my thanks for being who you are, and accepting me here as you have....


Cheers!

[Pimander]

I am the center of My universe.  You are the center of Yours.  [smile]

Awareness "creates" the universe and each awareness is the center of Its universe.

You have touched on real mysteries here.  This could get deep....

Can you define awareness?

What is this awareness then?  What is your awareness or centre?  What is mine?  How does it function?

Can inanimate matter be responsible for how you experience or picture the universe?

[rdunk]

zorgon said, "Oh but it does matter, because it is MY equation. As to pointing me to that book of yours, no the answer is not in there either... I looked. In case I missed it, perhaps you could point me to the relevant chapter?"

zorgon, what I said about God is not a "chapter and verse thing". It is revealed and stated throughout the Bible, beginning with Genesis, when God began to speak things we know about into existence. He did make Adam and Eve with his hands. Throughout the Bible God does things that reveals himself to us, and it is so very obvious there is no limitation to his authority, nor to his omnipotent power, except for one thing..........................HE IS BOUND BY HIS WORD, otherwise, no limits!!!!

I thought I very distinctly answered your question, without having to state directly that it is "oxymoronic", or like an oxymoron. It is much like the old question of "have you stopped beating your wife yet"?. There is no right answer, within the bounds of your question, relative to a limitless God. God could literally "speak" the Earth (or the Milky Way Galaxy, et al) into a feather, put the feather in his hat, and walk down "glory road" with it, if he wanted to.

My answer remains, to restate very briefly, God can make anything, and he can move anything he makes - - simply by speaking it into existence, and telling it to move, if he wants to move it.

Additionally, it is interesting that in the Word of God, God's people are advised of having similar capability, through faith. One of the scriptures that states this is, in the words of Jesus:

Mark 11:23
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith

Yes, that is just awesome!!