I just fell further down the rabbit hole

[The Matrix Traveller]

I fully understand your thoughts undo...

As I said, the writings have been "Bastardised" by the human species.

Even the Carpenter said, which many self proclaimed chistians (Who are NOT Christians at all,
but are followers of "Roman Doctrine", referred to in ancient writings as "The Synagogue of Satan")
hate the very thought of what the Carpenter was reported to have said.

From "The Gospel of Thomas", (NOT originally a "Gnostic Writing", in spite of claims
by some uneducated people)

Quote;

39.  Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the Scribes
have taken THE KEYS of KNOWLEDGE and HIDDEN Them.

They themselves have NOT entered,
nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.

You, however, be as wise as serpents
and as innocent as doves."

It was Roman Doctrine (The Roman Church fathers) who reject these writings and since then,
the Roman Church is the Root of Child sexual abuses, Sexual Discrimination, Corruption
and other Atrocities such as Violence against children and Women.

When I see the behaviour of those proclaiming to be Christians, but are instead, of the "The Synagogue of Satan"
I just want to VOMIT !

[undo11]

oh vomiting could get messy. lol

in the future, when you quote from thomas, could you indicate it's from thomas?   whenever debates like this come up,  it's always good to indicate where you got your information from, otherwise, for all i know, you could be quoting the menu at wendys. hehe

and jesus was not talking to romans when he said that. he was talking to the jewish leaders of the synagogue at the time.  the synagogue is a semitic institution not european. that does not mean semitic people are the spawn of satan.  it just means somewhere along the line, in the old testament, the teachings of enlil (which were mesopotamian, not european) usurped the teachings of the creator of human beings.  personally, i think it was in egypt. they became followers of the temple of set.  i could be wrong of course.

since this was enlil's planet back then, it kind makes sense that his teachings took center stage.  it just completely overshadowed the truth, is the problem at hand.

  enlil, who may otherwise be a great fellow (to his friends), really does not like human beings at all, which is evident in the sumerian, akkadian and old testament texts.  i think you may even be able to figure out which of the egyptian gods he was.   

long story short, saying that commentary from jesus indicated romans, is kinda strange.  particularly since enlil was like the premier god of the planet during the whole rise of the crescent moon symbology and the sin concept.  sin was a son of enlil.  look up sin enlil and read the wiki on it, at least. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_%28mythology%29

very much a semitic entity.

[Pimander]

ah but it isn't lies.  it's jumbled up, mixed together, ancient history and science.   i can prove it.

I agree that some of the Bible is ancient history and science.  Some is also prophecy, some mystical vision and some outright tampering with the identity of key characters obscured.  Some of it was even likely originally written about John the Baptist and has been altered to make it appear to be written about Jesus.

ETA:  Some of it is laws and sayings that cannot truly be attributed to anyone.

[undo11]

I agree that some of the Bible is ancient history and science.  Some is also prophecy, some mystical vision and some outright tampering with the identity of key characters obscured.  Some of it was even likely originally written about John the Baptist and has been altered to make it appear to be written about Jesus.

ETA:  Some of it is laws and sayings that cannot truly be attributed to anyone.

i think the concept that the messiah was jtb is a red herring. it's not hard for that kinda thing to happen either, as they had alot less data avaialable to them at the time, vs what we know today. and if the planet manages to make it another 500-1000 years,  the future people will have alot more data than we do.

of course, my theory is not just based on the bible, and i doubt the jtb theory is either.  so i can't fault them for extrabiblical references. but i think my extrabiblical references are alot more informative and provide a clearer picture. jesus was the messiah.

  this is the problem, however.  what was the messiah supposed to represent to the jews?  world domination, for one.  when jesus showed up, he not only fit the bill as the last pharaoh of egypt and rightful heir to the roman, egyptian and israel thrones, he also came with a message that power easily corrupts and their desire for world domination was fraught with problems because of how they approached the subject.  was it world domination for god or world domination for the priesthood, they were after. and if for god, which god, since they claimed to not recognize the messiah when he was standing right in front of them. 

i dunno.  i think jesus was the real deal.

[Pimander]

i think the concept that the messiah was jtb is a red herring.

JTB had a larger following than Jesus at the time.  There is some evidence that sections of the New Testament were originally about him.  I think both men likely tried to fulfil prophecies in order to gain followers.

So it was written, so it shall be done....

... is how prophecy works.

[undo11]

So it was written, so it shall be done....

unless of course, these guys were astral projecting or using some kind of tech that allowed them to glimpse possible futures. the problem with glimpsing anything, as is evident in the double slit experiment, your observation may change the original outcome, developing a timeline that wasn't originally solidified into a reality.  perhaps this is what is meant by "upon reading the law"  you become witness to it, and the act of observation skews you onto a different timeline where you're now being held accountable for stuff you didn't even do because the law condemns (accuses). 

then, truly, the only solution would be to have a get out of jail free card, cause it would be otherwise, rather difficult to reacquire your original timeline and there's no indicator that its outcome would resolve any better.   we are where we are, let's make the best of it.

[burntheships]

  this is the problem, however.  what was the messiah supposed to represent to the jews?  world domination, for one.  when jesus showed up, he not only fit the bill as the last pharaoh of egypt and rightful heir to the roman, egyptian and israel thrones, he also came with a message that power easily corrupts and their desire for world domination was fraught with problems because of how they approached the subject.  was it world domination for god or world domination for the priesthood, they were after. and if for god, which god, since they claimed to not recognize the messiah when he was standing right in front of them. 

i dunno.  i think jesus was the real deal.

Yes exactly undo.

Jesus was arrested and brought before Pilate as a political offender against the
Roman state....with the accusation made against him was that he claimed himself
"King of the Jews." It was Caiaphas, a high priest who sent Jesus to Pilate.

Jesus had spoke:  sometime or other God would destroy the Temple.
Jesus had already confronted the money changers...
So Jesus was a threat to the ruling class of Romans, and thier high
priests, who were Jews that rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

Today, the Roman Empire is alive and well, more than most
people care to admit.

[robomont]

you spoke of the split from the true doctrine.could tbis have happened witb solomon at the time of the wife and baal situation.

[The Matrix Traveller]

Today, the Roman Empire is alive and well, more than most people care to admit.

BINGO !  You aren't wrong there !

Known as "The 7 Hilled City" in ancient writings.

[undo11]

you spoke of the split from the true doctrine.could tbis have happened witb solomon at the time of the wife and baal situation.

snippet from an article that tries to establish the connectoin between solomon and pharaoh siamun. 

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3266164?uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21102309544627

whereas i think solomon WAS siamun.

[robomont]

very interesting.then maybe he got the baal religion from egypt.that would make sense i speculate.

[undo11]

so who was baal in egypt?  like his egyptian god name.  reminds me of this video.  baal in the tv show, stargate sg1, had cloned himself several times, to escape sg1 who were hunting him to bring him to a tribunal, for his crimes against various intergalactic races.

[Pimander]

Jesus was arrested and brought before Pilate as a political offender against the
Roman state....with the accusation made against him was that he claimed himself
"King of the Jews." It was Caiaphas, a high priest who sent Jesus to Pilate.

Any candidate for Messiah was a threat to the Roman occupation.  The prophecy was that the Messiah would liberate Palestine from Imperial rule.  The whole area was desperate for the promised leader to arrive.

Do you really think that it was necessary to doctor the Gospels so much if it was a clear cut thing who was the man for the job?  Even in the edited Gospels it is questioned whether Jesus is the Messiah.

I think it was Brian.

[undo11]

hehe

[zorgon]

Well lets go Deeper into the RABBI hole....


Is Jesus the Messiah?...  According to the RABBI....