Roswell UFO crash: what really happened 67 years ago?

[Ellirium113]

If they wanted to downplay it and say "oh it's a weather balloon" then WHY did they launch project SIGN and GRUDGE???

The first official investigation, carried out by the U.S. Air Force, into reports of "flying disks." Project Sign (officially known as Special Project HT-304) was established on December 30, 1947, in response to the massive wave of sightings that year (see saucer flap of 1947) and following recommendations by Lieutenant-General Nathan F. Twining, the head of Air Materiel Command (AMC). It was staffed by members of AMC's Technical Intelligence Division, based at Wright Field (now Wright-Patterson AFB), Dayton, Ohio, and began work on January 22, 1948.

At the outset, the consensus among Sign researchers seems to have been that the flying disks (UFOs) were real and were most likely advanced Soviet aircraft, possibly developed from German prototypes captured at the end of World War II. During the 368 days of Sign's existence, however, opinion shifted to the extent that in a secret document entitled, Estimate of the Situation, which reached U.S.A.F. Chief of Staff General Hoyt S. Vandenburg in early October 1948, it was suggested that the extraterrestrial hypothesis offered the best solution to the mystery of the flying disks. Vandenburg rejected this conclusion, the document was declassified a few months later, and all copies of it were ordered burned. When the destruction order became public knowledge, in the mid-1950s, it served to inflame a growing belief that the government was orchestrating a cover-up as to the true nature of UFOs. Subsequent denials by the Air Force that the Estimate document had ever existed only further exacerbated the situation. Following Vandenburg's rejection of the extraterrestrial hypothesis, supporters of this view at Sign were gradually reassigned to other duties until skeptics became the majority. In its final report, Project Sign expressed itself guardedly on the extraterrestrial issue:
It is hard to believe that any technically accomplished race would come here, flaunt its ability in mysterious ways and then simply go away ... Only one motive can be assigned; that the spacemen are "feeling out" our defenses without wanting to be belligerent. If so, they must have been satisfied long ago that we can't catch them... Although visits from outer space are believed to be possible, they are believed to be very improbable. In particular, the actions attributed to the "flying objects" reported during 1947 and 1948 seem inconsistent with the requirements for space travel.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/Sign.html

The second investigation into the problem of "flying disks" (or UFOs as they were soon to become known) carried out by the US Air Force, following the year-long Project Sign. Unlike its predecessor, Grudge was dismissive of the extraterrestrial hypothesis and sought instead to explain away sightings in terms of natural phenomena (such as the planet Venus) or illusions. To this end, it appointed an astronomical consultant, J. Allen Hynek. However, Grudge's attempts to demystify all the claimed aerial activity had the opposite effect to that intended. Supporters of the extraterrestrial hypothesis began to ask why, if the Air Force regarded UFOs as easily explicable, it had shown so much interest in them? In 1950, Donald Keyhoe began making accusations of a cover-up. Ironically, at the end of the same year, Grudge had been wound down to such an extent that the investigation team consisted of a single junior officer. The Air Force's interest in UFOs was briefly revived by a new wave of sightings in 1951-2, following which Grudge gave way to Project Blue Book.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/G/Grudge.html

[RUSSO]

Roswell or Bust

Yeah that looks like an alien spacecraft (aka flying saucer) for sure



Anyone interested in the Roswell incident is probably best off by first watching the 1990 video Recollections of Roswell, which is entirely based on interviews with witnesses and their families and friends.

These are the original interviews done by ufologist and nuclear physicist, Stanton T. Friedman, of the witnesses to the 1947 Roswell Incident.

0:33 - Bill Brazel ("Mac" Brazel's Son)
1:33 - Loretta Proctor ("Mac" Brazel's Neighbor)
2:37 - Frank Joyce (Former Announcer, KGFL Radio)
4:03 - Phyllis McGuire (Sherrif Wilcox's Daughter)
5:33 - Elizabeth Tulk (Sherrif Wilcox's Daughter)
6:58 - Barbara Dugger (Sherrif Wilcox's Granddaughter)
12:46 - Jesse Marcel (Former Intelligence Officer)
13:26 - Jesse Marcel Jr. (Son of Intelligence Officer)
16:39 - Lewis Rickett (Former CIC Sergeant)
20:16 - George "Jud" Roberts (Former Manager, KGFL Radio)
21:15 - Frank Joyce (Former Announcer, KGFL Radio)
22:28 - Lydia Sleppy (Former Secretary, KOAT Radio)
22:59 - Marian Strickland (Brazel's Neighbor)
23:50 - Walter Haut (Former Public Information Officer)
25:06 - Robert Shirkey (Former Base Operations Officer)
28:37 - Robert Porter (Former Flight Engineer)
30:30 - Robert Smith (Former Flight Crew Member)
34:10 - Robert Slusher (Former Flight Crew Member)
38:28 - Beverly Bean (Melvin Brown's Daughter)
41:30 - Jesse Marcel (Former Intelligence Officer)
41:41 - Brig. Gen. Thomas DuBose (USAF [Ret.])
42:50 - Bill Brazel ("Mac" Brazel's Son)
44:00 - Glenn Dennis (Former Mortician)
1:03:23 - Sappho Henderson (Pilot Henderson's Widow)
1:05:25 - Katherine Groode (Pilot Henderson's Daughter)
1:06:00 - John Kromschroeder (Pilot Henderson's Friend)
1:07:18 - Vern Maltais (Barnett's Friend)
1:08:52 - Alice Knight (Barnett's Niece)
1:10:16 - Harold Baca (Barnett's Neighbor)
1:13:24 - Robert Drake (Retired Archaeologist)
1:15:16 - Gerald Anderson

[Pimander]

How does a balloon crash in multiple places?  Why would a general fly in from the Pentagon to take control of a balloon crash.  No doubt there is more to the case as Zorgon full well knows.

[Sinny]

The Battelle connection has had recent corroboration.

I posted a link and the story not long ago here on Peggy.

I'm sure Peggy's search can turn it up.

Was searching for your link A51 - no luck, I found one from Z but that's all.

I have been looking into the validity of Anthony Bragalia's claims - I've come to realise it was speculation rather than fact that he is relying on.

His so called Roswell - Battelle link comes from... More heresay:

In May of 1992, noted historical researcher Dr. Irena Scott of Columbus, OH (herself a former Battelle scientist) interviewed a close professional associate of Elroy Center. Elroy had privately related to him in June of 1960 that while he was employed at Battelle he had been involved in a very strange laboratory project. Center said that earlier he had been tasked by his superiors to assist on a highly-classified Battelle study that was contracted by the government. He said that the project involved work on a very unusual material. Center understood that this debris material was retrieved by the US government from the earlier crash of a UFO. Center referred to the item he studied as a "piece." He explained that this "piece" was not something with which anyone was familiar. He also said that the debris had been inscribed with strange symbols that he called "glyphics." Similar markings have of course been reported by some of the witnesses to the Roswell crash debris. Center stopped short of providing any further details. The Battelle scientist passed away in 1991.

http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/roswell-debris-confirmed-as-extraterrestrial-lab-located-scientists-named-by-anthony-bragalia/

How convenient that this is disclosed a year after his death, and not on his own death bed.

Well now, if anything this particular case has opened my eye's to the so called 'researchers' out to make a quick buck (not aimed at Anthony in particular, but certainly very, very many surrounding this case).

[zorgon]

Battelle is interesting

When we were out at John's mine before he was evicted... I saw the white vans ( I have posted that full story here somewhere)

They had Battelle Institute on the side.

Still don't know WHY they were out there and more important where they disappeared to.  It was like an episode of Eureka...  the dirt roads all end in the mountains... where did these vans come and go from?

Oddly enough those white vans were seen in photos of the recent Bundy Ranch incident

Bundy Ranch is in Gold Butte... same area where John's mine was. John was shut down by Harry Reid, same guy that called Bundy and crew "Terrorists"

[Sinny]

Battelle is interesting

When we were out at John's mine before he was evicted... I saw the white vans ( I have posted that full story here somewhere)

They had Battelle Institute on the side.

Still don't know WHY they were out there and more important where they disappeared to.  It was like an episode of Eureka...  the dirt roads all end in the mountains... where did these vans come and go from?

Oddly enough those white vans were seen in photos of the recent Bundy Ranch incident

Bundy Ranch is in Gold Butte... same area where John's mine was. John was shut down by Harry Reid, same guy that called Bundy and crew "Terrorists"

Yea I was just reading the story...

Bundy Ranch eh... Must be sitting on resources of some sort..

J. A. Hynek mentioned two other corporations in relation to his business with Battelle and white Stork... About to go dig those up this evening..

[zorgon]

Do a Google search for "battelle memory metal"

Memory-metal files are missing
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090521/BLOG32/905219954

[RUSSO]

Do a Google search for "battelle memory metal"

Memory-metal files are missing
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090521/BLOG32/905219954

The  "Pentacle Memorandum" episode:

17-AUGUST-1993 - The "Pentacle Memorandum" has been a controversial item since its existence was revealed to the wider UFO community by Dr. Jacques Vallee in his excellent work Forbidden Science, (Copyright 1992, Jacques Vallee, North Atlantic Books, Berkeley CA, ISBN 1-55643-125-2).

Vallee found the two page memo in 1967 while working with Dr. Allen Hynek's papers and partially described it in Forbidden Science, giving the author of the memo the code name "Pentacle".

Shortly thereafter, a document which purported to be the Pentacle Memo came into limited circulation among certain researchers.  We obtained our copy from Mr. Barry Greenwood , P.O. Box 218, Coventry, CT 06238).

Among other things, this document contains confirmation that Battelle Memorial Institute was working on UFO project(s) at the time of the Robertson Panel, (January 1953), and apparently could exercise some amount of control over the handling of the subject matter.

You can read all the stuff including the text of correspondence from Dr. Jacques Vallee here:
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/pentacle.htm

What makes me even more intrigued about this is why call that memorandum "pentacle" (amulet?).

A pentacle (also spelled pantacle in Thelema, following Aleister Crowley)[1] is an amulet used in magical evocation, generally made of parchment, paper or metal (although it can be of other materials), on which the symbol of a spirit or energy being evoked is drawn. It is often worn around the neck, or placed within the triangle of evocation. Protective symbols may also be included (sometimes on the reverse), a common one being the five-point form of the Seal of Solomon, called a pentacle of Solomon or pentangle of Solomon.[2] Many varieties of pentacle can be found in the grimoires of Solomonic magic; they are also used in some neopagan magical traditions, such as Wicca, alongside other magical tools.

Etymology

The word is first recorded in English usage in 1561, from earlier French use, in turn from post-classical Latin pentaculum (from penta- "fivefold" + -culum diminutive suffix). The French word had a meaning of "talisman", typically in the shape of a pentagram, but the word could also refer to talismans in the shape of a hexagram.[4]


John Dee's "Seal of God's Truth" (Sigillum Dei Æmeth). British Museum.

Also, L.J. Center seems to be an important part of the puzzle as he supposedly confessed to reviewing actual Roswell frags.

Rumors about Battelle's hidden agendas have been swirling ever since, and one that began floating around in the Nineties was that L.J. Center had supposedly confessed to reviewing actual Roswell frags. But not until DTIC released its Battelle/Nitinol papers did Center's name surface as a co-author of memory-metal research papers for the USAF.

http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/11130/the-endless-memory-metal-intrigues/

And....

ELROY CENTER-WHY HIS CONFESSION TO UFO DEBRIS ANALYSIS HAS TO BE TRUE

Center was a Senior Research Chemist who worked for Battelle from 1939-1957 in materials sciences. University of Michigan alumni files and other papers that he authored while at Battelle confirm his employment and position. Originally from Hibbing, MN, Center received a BS in Chemical Engineering from the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor in 1939.

Dr. Irena Scott (a former employee of both Battelle and the Defense Intelligence Agency) had known of Elroy Center's connection to ET metal analysis years before this Battelle report was released. She had even related Center's confession to MUFON, a civilian UFO research organization, as reported in a 1992 Ohio MUFON journal. But Center's name was not known to be associated with the Battelle 1949 metals report until it was received this month under FOIA.

In May of 1992, Dr. Scott talked to a mutual acquaintance who told her that in June of 1960 Center had privately related to him something very disturbing. Center had told his friend that while he was a Research Chemist at Battelle he was directed by his superiors to provide technical assistance on a strange project. He was to conduct evaluation of an unknown material that he was told was retrieved some time prior from a crashed "flying saucer." He said that the debris -like the Roswell debris- had highly unusual hieroglyphic-like markings. Center then stopped short and said nothing more. Center passed in 1991. Center's family confirms his intense interest in UFO study and in the extraterrestrial, including while at Battelle. Additional information confirming Center's involvement is now being developed and will soon be released.

Although this story was known publicly as early as 1992, no one knew that Elroy Center was a co-author of a Battelle report for Wright Patterson that has long been suspected to be associated with Roswell memory metal debris analysis! The likelihood of a story about Center examining UFO debris when at Battelle- and then 17 years later discovering for the first time that he was the very scientist who had co-authored the suspect 1949 Battelle report- cannot be mere coincidence. Of the thousands of reports and employees that Battelle has had over the years- it could not be coincidence that it would be that very report -and that very scientist- that would be associated with the debris analysis- years later!

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2009/08/scientist-admits-to-study-of-roswell.html

CLUES FROM BATELLE'S PROGRESS REPORTS

From Battelle's "Second Progress Report" (Contract AF No. 33 (038)-3736) we learned:

1) Battelle had suddenly - after the Roswell crash - undertaken to perfect melting and "metal mixing" techniques and to create purity-levels for Titanium never before attempted. (Ultra-high purity Titanium is required to make memory metal).

2) Elroy Center was applying his new techniques for micro-analysis of novel Titanium alloys.

3) First-ever attempts at alloying Titanium with Nickel and other metals were made, including an expanded Titanium-Nickel "Phase Diagram" - the recipe for memory metal.

4) The report examines other Ti alloys that were later investigated by Wright Patterson for shape-recovery potential (including TiZr)

5) "Elongation" and "Minimum Bend Radius" tests were performed, indicating possible interest in morph-potential. Wright's General Exon recounted to author Kevin Randle similar tests being conducted on the Roswell material.

6) One of the report's authors (Lynn Eastwood) had as his boss Battelle's UFO-involved Dr. Howard Cross. Eastwood supervised Elroy Center confessor to the crash.

Some months later Billy Cox also obtained Battelle's previously missing "First Progress Report" through FOIA requests:

From Battelle's "First Progress Report" on "Research and Development of Titanium Alloys" (Contract AF 33 (038) 3736) we learned:

1) The work of the First Progress Report was similar to that of the Second. First-time ever work on characterization, melting, purification and diagramming of novel Ti alloys were conducted.

2) The report's cover letter is signed by LW (Lynn) Eastwood, whose direct superior was UFO-involved Dr. Howard Cross. Eastwood supervised Elroy Center, who confessed to debris analysis.

3) The report was done at the request of one J.B. Johnson, Chief of the Metallurgy Division at Wright Field in 1947. J.B. Johnson was supervised by Major General LC Craigie, Director of USAF R&D and the Engineering Division. Craigie's personal pilot (Ben Games) was interviewed by this author and by reporter Billy Cox in 2008. Games states that he had personally flown Craigie to Roswell Army Air Field immediately after the crash and then flew him to visit with President Truman.

4) Johnson appears to have facilitated the delivery of the metal ingots for the Battelle study and to have directed the submission and order of the Progress Reports. Johnson's behind the scenes involvement indicates that these studies were of high priority and urgency.

5) Elroy Center's work on Titanium purity (essential to make memory metal) is amplified on by scientists Mallett, Thomas and Griffith. They cite the work of one EJ Chapin of the Metallurgy Division of the Naval Research Laboratories where Nitinol was later said to have been developed.

6) A major discrepancy is found in the report and appears in the following, "The present data do not justify further investigation of binary Titanium-Germanium or Titanium Nickel alloys." However, this was not the case. In Battelle's Second Progress Report, we find that work was indeed continued on Titanium-Nickel alloy, to include feverish work on an extended "phase diagram," methods for melting Titanium, developing purification and micro-analysis techniques, etc. This is more than curious and it seems to indicate that Wright Patterson in fact was hell-bent on having the work continued. In fact results of these continued studies appeared in its next report for Wright under Wright's direction and insistence.

http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.aspx?id=1428

[RUSSO]

To illustrate the case a little more.

Roswell Incident: Department of Defense Interviews - Robert Shirkey / Walter Haut

1st Lt. Robert Shirkey: The base assistant operations officer. Shirkey also witnessed debris being loaded onto the B-29. "...Standing only three feet from the passing procession, we saw boxes full of aluminum-looking metal pieces being carried to the B-29. Major Marcel came along carrying an open box full of what seemed to be scrap metal. It obviously was not aluminum: it did not shine nor reflect like the aluminum on American military airplanes. And sticking up in one corner of the box being carried by Major Marcel was a small 'I-beam' with hieroglyphic-like markings on the inner flange, in some kind of weird color, not black, not purple, but a close approximation of the two. ...A man in civilian dress... was carrying a piece of metal under his left arm... This piece was about the size of a poster drawing board—very smooth, almost glass-like, with torn edges."

Lt. Robert Shirkey: "Standing only three feet from the passing procession, we saw boxes full of aluminum-looking metal pieces being carried to the B-29. ...sticking up in one corner of the box carried by Major Marcel was a small 'I-beam' with hieroglyphic-like markings on the inner flange, in some kind of weird color, not black, not purple, but a close approximation of the two." "I could see the hieroglyphs clearly, the signs were in relief and stood out."

Shirkey said there were other flights, another to Fort Worth, and a B-29 flight directly to Wright Field piloted by Henderson. He also said that he later learned that: "a Sergeant and some airmen went to the crash site and swept up everything, including bodies. The bodies were laid out in Hangar 84. Henderson's flight contained all that material. All of those involved--the Sergeant of the Guards, all of the crewmen, and myself--were shipped out to different bases within two weeks." Walter Haut, Roswell public information officer, who put out the base flying disc press release, mostly denied any other direct knowledge of the incident. However, in his first affidavit he did state, "I am convinced that the material recovered was some type of craft from outer space." [26] Then a few years before his death (in Dec. 2005) he elaborated on that statement. The 2002 affidavit, to be released after his death he stated he had direct knowledge about a spacecraft and aliens. "Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84, a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. ...I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet (4.6 m) in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet (1.8 m) high, and more of an egg shape. ...Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas over the bodies suggested the size of a 10-year old child. ...[Later Blanchard] would extend his arm about 4 feet (1.2 m) above the floor to indicate the height. I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies. ...I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space."

Lt. Walter Haut, Roswell public information officer, in his 2002 affidavit claimed an elaborate coverup was carried out: "On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel, CIC Capt. Sheridan Cavitt [names other senior officers], and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County... A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles (64 km) north of town. ...One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated with his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished. At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters..." In addition, Haut stated that he "was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence."

[Sinny]

Do a Google search for "battelle memory metal"

Memory-metal files are missing
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090521/BLOG32/905219954

Yes - the facts are, the files are missing.

The speculation, with no evidence, is the ET origin of the subject matter.

[zorgon]

Yes - the facts are, the files are missing. \

Well they are probably at the AF Labs where they are working on the morphing metal

Michigan Aerospace engineers are using new materials and techniques to allow airplane wings to flex and move more like bird wings. Instead of traditional flaps, they are designing wings that can morph based on an electrical inputs.

http://afrl.dodlive.mil/tag/nanomaterials/

[onetruekeeper]

Found a website that has tons of interesting books in downloadable PDF files..all FREE for the taking.
Enjoy!
https://decryptedmatrix.com/live/pdf-mastervault/

[Ellirium113]

Interesting interview with Dr. Farrell:

[Pimander]

I'm more referring to the craft that have been documented by the military doing right angle turns, fly at over 5,000 mph, those from that time when we had not even broken the sound barrier. You would think how far computers have come in just a few years, we should after 60+ have passenger craft visiting the planets!

According to Ben Rich, former President and CEO of the Lockheed Skunkworks. "We now have the technology to take ET home."

[astr0144]

I still have a problem trying to recall many of the facts or what maybe the more likely plausable / possible stories in ref to Roswell... its such an indepth topic...maybe more than most in the UFO researchers tasks.

I have various things that seem to come and go in my mind with ref to some of the past videos or TV programs  that I have watched about it...

and I would have to reread some of the threads on PRC to try to recall some of the things that I thought that I may had been concluded in the past...

I just watched this UK TV program on Roswell.. and it brought back some thoughts on it.

One point that still was a surprise upon rewatching this, was that the Story although occurred in 1947 ,where it was reported in the news next day..that a crashed Disc had landed in Roswell... then it says the next day it was then reported as being a weather Balloon.

(I was not sure when the Balloon Story came out...I thought it was some time after..not the very next day
or was there some other related story that came about much later that was in more depth...maybe it came out later about the test crash dummies also in ref with the balloon)

Then it seems it was forgotten about until 1978...

where the Program suggest that this was from the chance meeting between Jessie Marcel (The Airforce Intelligence officer involved in investigating the Roswell crash )and Stanton Freedman...who is known as a well known UFO researcher.

The Story then only came more well known about  when Stanton Freedman started to further investigate it and then tell his findings to the World..

Since his research and the  facts that he has informed us about..

There are now very few of the persons who he interviewed still alive..

but he did manage to  record most of the interviews..

There is only Jessie Marcel's son who later became a  Doctor / Flight Surgeon who is still alive , who has claimed to have actually witnessed  the parts of the damaged disc.

http://marceljr.com/about.html

The video shows other facts from some other researchers about the Alien Bodies found at a 2nd crash site..

The Narrator to the video I think does quite a good job at raising many points and at times his voice tone may seem to ridicule some of the facts...but then he may raise some opposing sides to them that may seem to support some of them.

The Narrator has done a series of related  TV programs "The strangest UFO stories of all time". and in some cases I think his ridiculing of many of the stories and cases may have been deserved..

I think the video is worth watching as it raises and reminds  us of some facts that may not have been recalled or even realized..

The strangest UFO stories of all time ..Roswell the Truth