Lochness Socialism?

[undo11]

I don't think though that the rich giving to charity should mean wealth should stay unfairly distributed.

the people of the united states are not rich.   we use to have a thriving middle class, now we just have a whole lot of people who are one pay day away from losing their homes, and the rest don't have jobs because they've been shipped off to communist china, who is for some strange reason, pretending they are capitalists.   if you refer to the 1%, many of those are globalists and not american citizens.

communists infiltrated our country at every level. while we were busy watching the hand that was pointing at nazis, the communists were doing even worse stuff and all of it was kept out of the news, so we wouldn't realize just how bad communism really is.

they took up jobs in universities and law schools, newspapers and radio stations.  then they indoctrinated an entire generation of college students and taught them to embrace elitism.  they ruined our economy using class and race warfare. and then shipped our economy off to a communist country. 

[zorgon]

but that's not the plan.  the plan is to depopulate by blaming anybody that has anything that they worked to get, or inherited from family, that worked to get it.

What I don't understand is that Conspiracy Talkers have been saying for many dercades that the goal of the Elite is to DEPOPULATE the planet. As witness to that any new outbreak of disease, all the HARRP created earthquakes and storms, all the false flag shootings are all touted as being proof of this goal

Yet over those same decades population has been increasing exponentially around the planet with no signs of it stopping anytime soon

Seems to me that the Elites plan to DEPOPULATE the planet is not working so well.  Yet if that was what they really wanted to do it would be so very simple. We have developed so many ways to kill people both in mass or in focused groups that we could have achieved this goal 100 times over already.

So while the conspiracy crowd is talking depopulation, the Chinese and the Muslim are breeding like Rabbits and I bet within 50 years the Western Nations will be Islamic. (US has a small buffer edge due to the Hispanic factor  but only a small edge)

it is not your fault that other countries on the planet, abuse their citizens.  it is the fault of their leaders.

TRUE that...

...but should the non abusing nations not DO something about the abusive nations? Yes it's not our fault but do we do NOTHING?  If you see your neighbor beating his wife, kids or dogs... do you just ignore it and do nothing?

"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing"

how is some family, who is only surviving because the government allows them to have foodstamps, or allows them to keep enough of their money to pay their bills, at fault for abuses everywhere?  that's like crazy talk.

When the US became free of the tyrany of Britain back in the day.... only 20% of "We the people ..." stood up and did anything. Only 20%   The rest just stood by and did nothing.

Yet that 20% was enough for good to triumph and break free.

This freedom lasted until 1914  when once again no one did anything when Woodrow Wilson signed us back over to control of the banks

So who's fault exactly is it that we let these people into power?  Sure you can argue that the little farmers and average families can do nothing to stop it... yet history shows that b when NUMBERS of farmers and families stand together they CAN do something

Even though in 1914 we were sold back to the Bankers... this place is still relatively free...  the average family can just mind it's own business and pretty much not have any problems

it's not the fault of other people on the planet, that our governments are abusing their citizens, either, and for the same reason - you're only guilty for what you personally do, not what other people do.  any talk to the contrary is evidence of brainwashing

A good friend of mine... a Croatian... the fellow who taught me gem cutting... once told me about his father...

Now my friend was not a political activist, since he moved to Toronto to get away from the situation in Yugoslavia...  but when he was younger he was more politically active.  At the time Tito was in power... Croatian and Serbia   well we all know that both world wars involved those regions....

The point is he once talked with his dad, a local Croatian farmer... about being more active in getting Tito removed.

His father said that I am a simple farmer... Tito and his gang need to eat... so if I stick to my farming I will not have any trouble.

Now as my friend got older, he realized that what his father said was true.  As a simple farmer tending his crops, it did not matter who was in charge

So say  Maahhhhhh and tend to your business... its not your fault that Tito is running things.



But if enough farmers took up a pitch fork and marched on Washington... even though Washington has machine guns.... would those farmers not be able to make changes?

I seem to recall that the Bundy family in Nevada did just that a few months back... seems the Feds with the machine guns backed down

[zorgon]

the people of the united states are not rich.   we use to have a thriving middle class, now we just have a whole lot of people who are one pay day away from losing their homes, and the rest don't have jobs because they've been shipped off to communist china,

Well part of the blame falls on those letting their money be taken.  "A fool and his money are soon parted"

Now before you go off on that    what I mean by this is that Americans have allowed themselves to get sucked up in credit consumerism.  The need to have the latest gadgets, etc.  So much so that the debt has literally killed them.

To be sure the corporation drive this but in the end the consumer IS responsible for spending beyond their means.  Back a few decades ago  we didn't see the writing on the wall  and fell into the money trap...  now we are paying for it BIG TIME

But there are still ways to recover... I have been procrastinating over the summer and basically sitting licking my wounds... so I am now back to where I was a few years ago and short of cash flow...

But this can be fixed  and I am starting right now to swing that pendulum. Burntheships and SkyOtter can both attest to the fact that what I say is true.  They have both been making extra money by hitting yard sales treasure hunting and reselling stuff.  When the economy goes bad, people need to get rid of stuff  so treasures can be found.  So with just a little effort  and a little internet know how  ANYONE can make a fairly nice living  but most certainly suppliment their income.

My sister sells enough now on Ebay to cover her house expenses and have enough left for a 2 week family vacation in Puerto Rico annually...  And all she sells mostly is fur coats she buys at church sales etc for no more than $50.00 and resells them for $200-$400 online

who is for some strange reason, pretending they are capitalists.   if you refer to the 1%, many of those are globalists and not american citizens.

There is nothing strange about it at all...


The Chinese government simply discovered that the vast majority of citizens do not give a HOOT about politics.  IF they can be left alone to make money they will stay out of politics. Same is true here really... leave me alone to do my business and I could care less whether Bush or Obama is playing war games messing up the planet 

So China simply told their people  "Go forth and Prosper... just stay out of politics"

And so far its working. The new rich Chinese are buying up the USA 

communists infiltrated our country at every level. while we were busy watching the hand that was pointing at nazis, the communists were doing even worse stuff and all of it was kept out of the news, so we wouldn't realize just how bad communism really is.

Well McCarthy tried  Look what that did. "A Commie under every bed"  Lets drag our citizens through the wringer and oust those Reds...

they took up jobs in universities and law schools, newspapers and radio stations.  then they indoctrinated an entire generation of college students and taught them to embrace elitism.  they ruined our economy using class and race warfare. and then shipped our economy off to a communist country.

Communism didn't work out so well for the Russians...



and if you actually talk to most modern Chinese... ( I have run into MANY in the convention business) you will discover that the average Chinese person is more capitalist and the communism is never even dragged into conversation. They are all here to do business  not try to convert us.

One thing that IS noteworthy   it is the WOMEN that run the businesses.  One of the groups we contracted show setup for call their boss the Dragon Lady... and you should see them hop when she is around

Now she really is a nice person, but these guys that get to come to the US on these trips... for them its like making a months salary every day   so its a real perk.

And since our union says they are only allowed to actually work when our hall is empty... it was an interesting juggling match.

We finally solved it as they werte allowed to pack their own stuff  so we broke it down to the floor and they could pack.  It was a great working relationship

But NO ONE ever mentioned politics, communism or tried to convert anyone.  That is only in the conspiracy world

There was one time though... when the foreman and I were chatting.... he said his next show was Bejing...  So I said well if you like my work so much, how about you bring me over to help?  He said jokingly  "Oh that not for Whitey" 

[Pimander]

end the current offensively low tax rates on capital gains by going back to the best part of Reagan's tax reform, taxation of all income alike regardless of its source.

Third, change the estate tax to encourage the distribution of wealth. If a billionaire leaves it all to one heir, the tax ought to be confiscatory. But if that billionaire gave a million dollars each to a thousand people, the estate tax ought to be very much lower. In addition, an inheritance tax that takes account of the wealth of the recipient ought to be in place as well. Thus, to minimize taxes, the estate ought to be left to many people who are not very wealthy already. Of course, all the games that allow evasion of estate and inheritance taxes ought to be repealed.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/05/economist-explains

[burntheships]

@ Pimander,

That is an interesting snippet there. I'll go ahead and toss in my opinion on that;
IMO inheritance taxes should be abolished. Tax has already been paid on the wealth in one form or another, often times several times over.

The U.S. tax code is now 3.8 million words long.  All of Shakespeare's works would
only be about 900,000 words.

Here is a list of 97 taxes Americans pay on top of the income tax.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-25/list-97-taxes-americans-pay-every-year

[undo11]

Well part of the blame falls on those letting their money be taken.  "A fool and his money are soon parted"

Now before you go off on that    what I mean by this is that Americans have allowed themselves to get sucked up in credit consumerism.  The need to have the latest gadgets, etc.  So much so that the debt has literally killed them.

To be sure the corporation drive this but in the end the consumer IS responsible for spending beyond their means.  Back a few decades ago  we didn't see the writing on the wall  and fell into the money trap...  now we are paying for it BIG TIME

agreed, however,  at the same time, wages were not keeping pace with inflation.  we have the buying power of the 1950s but with 2014 inflation.  this gap has been getting wider with each passing year, like slowly boiling a frog to death.  it drove moms into the work place, causing the loss of jobs for men, inevitably.

and at the same time THAT was happening a ton of quality of life laws were enacted,  that required we spend more to sustain the expected life quality for our children and our environment. the pay scale did not rise to cover these new expenses.  in fact, it keeps sinking lower and lower, while yet more quality of life laws are enacted and more taxes are being levied.

[undo11]

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that what is currently being called american capitalism is actually european royal socialism, exported via the globalist banking system, into the usa. there's really not much difference between an elite socialist ruling class, and an elite royal ruling class.  it may be how the crown heads of the world have managed to recapture the planet.

and if that's the case, you can bet the vatican has their fingers all over it.

[petrus4]

The truly relevant part is at the end; but the rest is worth listening to as well, because it provides necessary context.

Open your minds, kids; and dump the fear.

[undo11]

Open your minds, kids; and dump the fear.

[undo11]

so what we have there is the banks, up to their necks in mortgage fraud, designed to crash the economy, and essentially pull down the remaining independent business owners of the usa.  the banks (wall street and the irs)  colluded with the democratic party to push these mortgages onto people who couldn't afford them and then hid the balloon payments in small print.   

then they colluded to crash the entire planet's financial system, and put hundreds of thousands of businesses out of business, all over the world, causing the loss of millions, perhaps even billions of jobs, and then closed the doors on banks in which the elderly had stockpiled retirement funds for their old age, which the banks then stole. 

then they colluded with the democrats to force the american taxpayers to pay them even more money in the form of a financial rescue, that wasn't actually necessary, since they had just cornered the world's marketplaces and stolen the money of billions of people, overnight.  there were literally only 4 banks left standing, when the dust settled, and their businesses are all global.

the more you learn about this, the worse it gets.  i had a moment of "what the freak" when i learned that wall street and the globalist banking system, had actually bankrolled the bolshevik revolution and in league with the democratic party of the usa, forced american taxpayers to pay for the arming of the soviet union, the increases in their technology, and then america's response for tech that was better so we could keep up with the soviets, also out of the american taxpayers pocket. 

american military was used to train soviet soldiers, to rebuild soviet infrastructure, to train soviets how to use the factory equipment of alll the workers who had been killed during the revolution, to guard soviet railways while the  revolution was underway so that no neighbors could threaten their progress. 

then wall street set up their businesses inside the soviet union.  in effect, the elite of the usa's democratic party was completely onboard with the soviet union the whole time they were telling the american people that russia was our enemy. not only onboard, but using our tax dollars to bolster it, prop it up, and then benefited from the slave labor of the russian people by buying the soviet grains that were being created in forced labor camps, while the ukrainians were starved to death at literally, the same time.

oh it gets worse.  they then used our democrat owned press, schools, music industry and literary community,  to convince people that capitalism was the problem.  when in fact, real capitalism is actually legal, honorable business, not the shit these guys were doing.  this is how socialists take over whole countries,. it's all a big fat lie, designed to look like a real problem, artificially created so that they can offer the socialist solution, which is almost always a very bad deal for the people themselves.

the banks are working towards world socialism.  you might think, oh that's good!  you would be wrong. 

[undo11]

p.s.  i actually saw this happening, almost like in slow motion. just prior to, after and during the "war on terror', i would get 50 phone calls a day, everyday, starting at 8 in the morning and lasting till 10pm, monday-sunday, holidays, etc, begging me to take out a new mortgage on my home at 1% or 2% interest. 

hubby had already previously secured a fixed interest rate payment on the mortgage, several points higher, and didn't want to lose the fixed rate, so he told me to say "no." and so i did.  50 times a day, for months, thru my chemotherapy and breast cancer surgery, thru the loss of my mother, the war, every day, night and day.

why were they so desperately after our house mortgage, i wondered? well i found out later, that what they were doing was hooking people into taking their low interest rates, with huge interest rate balloon payments hidden in the fine print.  the entire housing bubble and the subsequent devastation, was all artificially created by socialists trying to topple the economy, not by capitalists trying to do actual business.

to be fair, many republicans have been in on this crap as well, but then the repubs of today are more like democrat socialists 40 years ago.  which is then levied against them by democratic progressives who don't think the repubs are helping to wreak the place, fast enough

the icing on the cake was when they got the politicians to remove the protections against stock market fraud, and then blamed the whole debacle on unbridled capitalism.

[petrus4]

the more you learn about this, the worse it gets.  i had a moment of "what the freak" when i learned that wall street and the globalist banking system, had actually bankrolled the bolshevik revolution and in league with the democratic party of the usa,

Wall Street bankrolled the Nazis as well, and thought Hitler was awesome.  Wall Street will throw money at anyone who is willing to be despotic towards the general public, while allowing Wall Street itself with sufficient freedom to do whatever it likes.

Talking about Hitler on the one hand, or the Bolsheviki on the other, has limited usefulness at this point.  Studying the Bolsheviki can be instructive, if you want to look at the bait and switch which was engaged in towards Emma Goldman and the genuine, Kropotkinian Anarchists (of whom I consider myself a spiritual descendant, to a limited degree) by Trotsky and Lenin, at Kronstadt and other places.  Trotsky in particular was an absolute monster; he was the Illuminati's supervisor for Stalin.

Studying Hitler is unlikely to accomplish much other than potentially defiling the mind and endangering the soul of whoever engages in said study; although Mein Kampf does have genuine utility, as a means of innoculating its' readers against Hitler's tactics being used against them in future.  Exposing oneself to the influence of demons is always a perilous undertaking, however; and I am inclined to view Hitler as being about as close to a physically incarnate demon, as has yet walked the surface of this planet.  Other than, of course, for his own handlers, most of whom we did not see.

Communism and Nazism were both used by the Illuminati as a means of limiting the public's options; of causing people to accept the illusion that although they were, "free," there was simply no rational point in trying to devise any form of economics other than contemporary neoliberalism, because supposedly they had already been tried, and had ended in mass murder. 

This is also why Amy and I have such a difficult task in front of us; because while I am genuinely not interested in either National Socialism or Communism, it is impossible to attempt to discuss any form of unorthodox economics, without the reflexive, deafening, and continual screaming of "Communism!" immediately occurring in response to it.  Marx, Stalin, and Mao sadly did their infernal work very, very well.

the banks are working towards world socialism.  you might think, oh that's good!  you would be wrong.

I do not.  I am uncertain whether or not you are going to be willing to listen to this, Undo, as you have apparently not been willing to do so earlier; but I will attempt to describe to you what my ideal social/political/economic scenario is, so that if you are going to insist on comparing it with Marxist Communism, you may at least do so honestly.

a}  I do not advocate federalism, whether global or national.  No central planning, in other words, at all.

To the extent that I advocate the existence of distinct geopolitical entities, I do not believe that they should consist of a higher maximum than one thousand adult individuals, and preferably they would in practice be considerably smaller than that.  This would be a concession to the hard limits of human neurology, which is incapable of keeping track of more than a hundred relationships simultaneously.

The additional benefit of a return to the radically small city state, would be that it would end the mockery of law which currently exists.  A population of one thousand or less, would mean that the entire population would also form the nation's legislature, which would in turn mean that no law could be passed, which would be binding on anyone who was not physically present in the room.  Thus, contract law would be all that would exist in practice, and not just in theory.

b}  I do not condone public or state run education.  This is the point after which, I may no longer be fairly or honestly accused of being a Communist, since to the best of my knowledge, state education is one of the planks of the Communist Manifesto.  I believe that the education of children can and should only be rightfully performed at the discretion of both the child's parents, and most importantly, the child themselves.  Thus, classical homeschooling, unschooling, the Waldorf method, and whatever other unorthodox system that is yet to be devised, would all be fair game as far as I am concerned.

To the Communist state, the purpose of education is the breaking of the child's mind, to make it more permissive to tyranny.  For the real benefit of the child themselves, however, the purpose of education should be to teach the child how to most effectively engage in a combination of rational and empirical thought, which will allow them to reach autonomous and objective conclusions about any given topic.

c}  I do advocate that machine automation (and other, potentially as yet undiscovered methods) be used as a means of unconditionally feeding, clothing, and housing any and all individuals who have the requirement for such.  If we need to discuss the ownership of the machines which would be involved in this process, then I would likely respond by saying that the machines which performed these tasks for each individual, would be the property of the individual themselves. 

Edward Bellamy and the Venus Project both advocate commonly owned logistical infrastructure; I do not, because I am well aware of, and agree with, the Libertarian concern that such common ownership would most likely have the practical result of the negation of the individual, and collective tyranny.  So the disciples of Ayn Rand in particular, do not necessarily need to view me as their enemy; being such is not my intent.

Jacques Fresco advocated the collective means of ending logistical inequality; I, on the other hand, advocate that the mechanical infrastructure required for doing such, be given to each individual free and clear at their age of majority, and that as a result, there need be no talk of collective, centrally planned subjugation, as was advocated by Marx.

d}  To the extent that money should or should not be used, I primarily advocate that money be returned to its' original, Aristotelian purpose, which was simply a means of measuring and regulating scarcity.  Thus, there would be an end to usury, and money would be used to pay for those things which it was genuinely not possible to replicate technologically.  There would be the assumption that the technological replication of all commodities would eventually be possible, and thus, the vestigial Capitalistic economy for scarce resources, would likewise be presumed to be transitional in nature; although it should be kept for as long as it is truly necessary.

I will again emphasise the fact that I do not advocate anything here, which I believe is outside of the realm of real possibility.  It is not human nature itself, in any hard wired or involuntary sense, which needs to change; but merely human willingness.

I have mentioned before that there may be a need for the diagnosis and hospitalisation of psychopaths as they are born, in order to prevent society from reverting to a degraded condition similar to our present; but then again, I am also inclined to believe that small population size may provide sufficient accountability, that such individuals will no longer be able to gain enough influence to cause problems. 

Thus we see that, more than anything else, the small population size of individual nations is absolutely key, as is their complete autonomy in international terms.  While I never doubt the altruism or general positivity of Pimander's intentions, I will always disagree passionately with any advocacy of global federalism, as I regard it to be a recipe for perpetual, potentially irremovable, universal tyranny; and absolutely nothing more.

[undo11]

petrus

sounds like a good idea, all except the low population thing, because that part, smacks of genocide on such a massive scale that it'd make all prior atrocities pale by comparison.

[zorgon]

So  on the one hand  it is argued that the Elite want to eliminate 90% of the population...

but then on the other hand the banks need every single useless eater to produce tax revenue

Doesn't add up in my math book

[zorgon]

end the current offensively low tax rates on capital gains by going back to the best part of Reagan's tax reform, taxation of all income alike regardless of its source.

Let's just hold off on that idea till I sell off my stuff.  All my life I have collected things expecting and hoping that one day when O retire I can actually get some good money returned for all the years of hard work.

The current capital gains taxes allow me the first $50,000 tax free. I bought the stuff  I kept it all these years and I expect to get a good return to live off the rest of my life

In addition, an inheritance tax that takes account of the wealth of the recipient ought to be in place as well.

After a lifetime of slavery to the system and hard work, WHY should my kids have to pay taxes AGAIN on what I already was extorted on? The percentage I have left and saved to pass on should now be taxed again?

Isn't this exactly the type of thinking that made us toss that Tea into the Harbor so long ago?

Look at the missing TRILLIONS annually, look at the TRILLIONS in black ops spending. Do any of you REALLY believe that all that money (on top of the day to day running of the government) comes from 120 million or so taxpayers?