Stephen Fry Annihilates God

[ArMaP]

ArMaP, I do hope that this answers your questions about this!

It does, thanks.

But I have another question, if you don't mind: in your opinion, which is the worse punishment, Satan's, Adam's or Eve's?

[rdunk]

Zorgon said, Your Apple story is like that  Your Deity left the tree out there where it could be gotten at. He could have put a fence around it but no"

"Apple story"? Z, since you "have read the Bible", as you say, I assume that you would know by fact, there is no "apple story" relative to the Garden of Eden in the Bible book of Genesis. The word "apple" is mentioned 11 times in the Bible, but never in relation to what happened in Genesis.

Of course, we all should know that eating an apple does not result in our gaining/knowing anything more than we knew before we ate it. So, the "fruit" of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which was the forbidden tree, could not have been an apple tree as we know it, ie, it was a "tree of knowledge". Obviously, the fruit was edible, and, Gen 3:6 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,

As a matter of interest, the 3 specific areas of sin in the world are noted in 1 John 2:16,

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

So all sin can be categorized into these three specific areas, and it is worth noting that Eve's statement of "the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise" covered all three of them! (same for when satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness 3 times - lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life)

Note*****and don't worry, I am not personally bothered when anyone shares their negative thoughts about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and Christianity. Because of my faith, I do have compassion for any such, but debating various scriptures of the Bible is not a productive adventure. I will answer questions (if I can   ) anytime if they are interest based!

And Z, you have asked the question many times about how many animals went on the ark, and I have answered it at least once in the distant past. It seems the confusion for some relates to it being mentioned by God twice within just a few verses - First God said in Genesis 6:19-20 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive. Here God saying bring them in by 2's means a male and a female of each.

Then 3 scriptures later, God goes ahead and tells Noah how many total pairs of each type of the animals he wants brought into the ark - Gen 7:2-3 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

I am not certain why any one thinks the Ark was filled with just 2 of each animal, other than hearing about it from someone who hasn't read what the Bible actually says about it! I guess that is the way it is for lots of folks!

[zorgon]

THIS is the kind of email I get LOL

So I guess its all over because the Bible says so


The Bible Warns: Obama Will Not Finish His 2nd  Term

http://www.enddayssurvival.com/report/1/9/104693/15325998/

[Gigas]

at you - look in the mirror for answers to some of your questions/thoughts.!

Christians in denial, will do that to you

[zorgon]

"Apple story"? Z, since you "have read the Bible", as you say, I assume that you would know by fact, there is no "apple story" relative to the Garden of Eden in the Bible book of Genesis. The word "apple" is mentioned 11 times in the Bible, but never in relation to what happened in Genesis.

Of course there is!  That is why men have Adam's Apple stuck in their throat and ALL the religious paintings show an Apple (just like they show UFO's )

Of course, we all should know that eating an apple does not result in our gaining/knowing anything more than we knew before we ate it.

Well today eating Apples keeps the Doctor Away and a smart kid gives the teacher an Apple... so....  but I do believe it is FISH that is the brain food

So, the "fruit" of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which was the forbidden tree, could not have been an apple tree as we know it, ie, it was a "tree of knowledge". Obviously, the fruit was edible, and, Gen 3:6 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,

Well it is equally possible that there was no 'fruit' at all and it was just a metaphor, like the "tree of life" is actually our DNA that we know has been blocked

[zorgon]

As a matter of interest, the 3 specific areas of sin in the world are noted in 1 John 2:16,

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

So all sin can be categorized into these three specific areas, and it is worth noting that Eve's statement of "the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise" covered all three of them! (same for when satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness 3 times - lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life)

Ah yes LUST of the FLESH

Since we were 'created' to reproduce by fornication, and the act is pleasant to us so that we would wish to procreate... HOW does it make ANY SENCE to say God created us that way and then make it a sin to enjoy it?  Seriously? If we did not enjoy it, it would mean the end of the species.

This SIN of the flesh has to be one of the stupidest things in religion. No wonder Muslims are out breeding the Christians.. because they think there version of God commands them to use women as sex toys whenever they wish while Christians consider it a sin...

We reproduce by having SEX... our physical makeup is such that certain parts of our body stimulate the pleasure sensors of the brains so that we WANT to procreate... IF as you say your God made us (in his own image ) then WHY would it be a Sin to do what is natural?

Muslims and others cut off parts.. can't have women enjoying sex now can we?  Now how did that become "Godly?"  If God din't want you to enjoy sex  WHY did he make the parts that make you enjoy sex?

Do you REALLY not see how ludicrous this is? Are you truly that blinded?  Sigh... I guess so 

Note*****and don't worry, I am not personally bothered when anyone shares their negative thoughts about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and Christianity. Because of my faith, I do have compassion for any such, but debating various scriptures of the Bible is not a productive adventure. I will answer questions (if I can   ) anytime if they are interest based!

Good to hear   I have no issues with what ANYONE wishes to believe... so long as they respect MY right to believe as I choose

[zorgon]

And Z, you have asked the question many times about how many animals went on the ark, and I have answered it at least once in the distant past. It seems the confusion for some relates to it being mentioned by God twice within just a few verses - First God said in Genesis 6:19-20 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive. Here God saying bring them in by 2's means a male and a female of each.

Yes that is the BOARDING ORDER in pairs   And sorry I never saw you answer this

Then 3 scriptures later, God goes ahead and tells Noah how many total pairs of each type of the animals he wants brought into the ark - Gen 7:2-3 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

Yes but it seems to depend on which modern version you read  there are some differences  I use King James as that is the common one today so yes 7 PAIRS because the female was not counted other than a male and his mate  so 14 of each clean beast 4 of each unclean beast is correct. And that IS a more viable number to keep the seed alive biologically speaking

HOWEVER  The given dimensions of the Ark do not have enough room for that many of each animal in the world which is several THOUSAND species many of which like Elephants and Rhinos are huge  Do the math   Unless God shrank them all it doesn't fit

I am not certain why any one thinks the Ark was filled with just 2 of each animal, other than hearing about it from someone who hasn't read what the Bible actually says about it! I guess that is the way it is for lots of folks!

That is simple... That is what they teach in Sunday School... that is what is taught in most churches. In fact I have NEVER heard ONE Christian outside of Pegasus EVER say more than two of each

Do a test...  ask some Christians   Maybe you can tell THEM to read the book they before they preach

[zorgon]

Here are a few

How Many Animals of Each Kind did Noah Take into the Ark?

Ask most children who are somewhat familiar with the biblical account of the Flood how many animals of each kind Noah took into the ark, and the answer you likely will hear is, "Two!" These Bible students are familiar with the instructions recorded in Genesis 6:19 that God gave to Noah: "And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female" (Genesis 6:19, emp. added; cf. 7:15). It seems that fewer people, however, are aware that God also instructed Noah, saying, "You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep the species alive on the face of all the earth" (Genesis 7:2-3, emp. added). According to Bible critics, these verses are contradictory. "Are clean beasts to enter by 2's or by 7's?" asked skeptic Dennis McKinsey (1983, p. 1).

To answer McKinsey's question, the clean beasts and birds entered the ark "by sevens" (KJV), while the unclean animals went into the ark by twos. There is no contradiction here. Genesis 6:19 indicates that Noah was to take "two of every sort into the ark." Then, four verses later, God supplemented this original instruction, informing Noah in a more detailed manner to take more of the clean animals. It was necessary for Noah to take additional clean animals because, upon his departure from the ark after the Flood, he "built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the alter" (Genesis 8:20). If Noah had taken only two clean animals from which to choose when sacrificing to God after departing the ark, then he would have driven the various kinds of clean beasts and birds into extinction by sacrificing one of each pair. Thus, after God told Noah to take two of every kind of animal into the ark, He then instructed him to take extras of the clean animals. Similar to how Genesis chapter 2 supplements the first chapter of Genesis by giving a more detailed account of the Creation (see Lyons, 2002), the first portion of Genesis 7 merely supplements the end of the preceding chapter, "containing several particulars of a minute description which were not embraced in the general directions first given to Noah" (Jamieson, et al., 1997).

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=656

Now even here he highlights SEVEN  missing the point that seven PAIRS is FOURTEEN

[zorgon]

This one is even weirder  Seems Christians cannot agree on the numbers

(This is why I ask it so often )

I love this one because it includes Dinosaurs and says not all animals needed to get on the ark

How Many Animals Were on the Ark?

How Many Animals Were on the Ark?
By Craig von Buseck
CBN.com Contributing Writer
      

CBN.com – The Bible tells us that God brought the animals to the ark, two by two:

Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood. Pairs of every kind of bird, and every kind of animal, and every kind of small animal that scurries along the ground, will come to you to be kept alive. And be sure to take on board enough food for your family and for all the animals. So Noah did everything exactly as God had commanded him. (Gen. 6:19-22, NLT)

According to World Book Encyclopedia, "So far scientists have named and classified more than 1 1/2 million animals. Over half of these are types of insects and other species are discovered each year. Scientists believe there may be from 2 million to as many as 50 million kinds of animals alive today." However, the vast majority of these are capable of surviving in water and would not have needed to be brought aboard the ark.

In their book, The Genesis Flood, Doctors Morris and Whitcomb say that only 35,000 individual animals needed to go on the ark. John Woodmorappe, the author of Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, believes that an even smaller number of animals would have been transported upon the ark. Woodmorappe explains that the word "specie" is not equivalent to the "created kinds" of the Genesis account, so as few as 2,000 animals may have been required on the ark.

ChristianAnswers.net explains that as many as 50,000 animals (including creatures that may now be extinct) could have fit on board the ark. These would not have needed to be the largest or even adult specimens.

They point out that there are really only a few very large animals, such as the dinosaur or the elephant, and these could be represented by young ones. "Assuming the average animal to be about the size of a sheep and using a railroad car for comparison, we note that the average double-deck stock car can accommodate 240 sheep. Thus, three trains hauling 69 cars each would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37 percent of the ark. This would leave an additional 361 cars or enough to make 5 trains of 72 cars each to carry all of the food and baggage plus Noah's family of eight people."

We know that most animals possess the ability to sense danger and to move to a place of safety. In recent natural disasters, scientists have noticed that animals have migrated to safety, ensuring that a vast number of them survived. In the time of Noah, God had two air-breathing land animals of every kind travel to the very spot where Noah was building the ark just before the flood came. Some believe that this may have involved an intensification of animal migratory instincts.

The Genesis passage clearly states that God gathered the animals and brought them to Noah inside the ark two by two.

When everything was ready, the Lord said to Noah, "Go into the boat with all your family, for among all the people of the earth, I can see that you alone are righteous. Take with you seven pairs—male and female—of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others. Also take seven pairs of every kind of bird. There must be a male and a female in each pair to ensure that all life will survive on the earth after the flood. Seven days from now I will make the rains pour down on the earth. And it will rain for forty days and forty nights, until I have wiped from the earth all the living things I have created." So Noah did everything as the Lord commanded him. Noah was 600 years old when the flood covered the earth. He went on board the boat to escape the flood—he and his wife and his sons and their wives. With them were all the various kinds of animals—those approved for eating and for sacrifice and those that were not—along with all the birds and the small animals that scurry along the ground. They entered the boat in pairs, male and female, just as God had commanded Noah. (Gen. 7:1-9)

Craig von  BuseckCraig von Buseck is a published author, popular speaker and a contributing writer for CBN.com. He holds a Doctor of Ministry and an MA in Religious Journalism from Regent University. His most recent book by Regal Publishers, Praying the News, was co-written by CBN News anchor Wendy Griffith.

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleStudyAndTheology/Discipleship/Noah-HowManyAnimals.aspx

So if Christians cannot get THIS simple question right how can we mere mortal atheists ever get it?

[petrus4]

The only thing that atheists really demonstrate with images like these, is their own unresolved pain.  I repeat what I said in my earlier post; as long as you hate something, you will never be free of it.  I've come to consider New Atheism a branch of the political Left.  One of the main characteristics of said Left in my experience, is an absolute refusal to take any responsibility whatsoever, for any aspect of who they are; and that especially includes their refusal to control their emotions, or even to recognise that their emotions belong to them.  They prefer to view their own emotional reactions as exclusively being caused by someone else.

[zorgon]

The only thing that atheists really demonstrate with images like these, is their own unresolved pain.

A) its humor
B) I am not an Atheist...
C) There is no pain in trying to educate some people to my reality

I repeat what I said in my earlier post; as long as you hate something, you will never be free of it.

A) I hate nothing or no one... until they prove themselves worthy of scorn or spite
B) I was 'free of it several incarnations ago



Now how is it a bad thing to want to share reality from someone who has been there? Many people in this day and age have crossed over and returned, or been reincarnated. But the Book Thumpers of all religions do not want to listen to those people... because it goes against their pet belief.

I have one advantage though... I KNOW that it doesn't matter what they choose to believe... because in the end soon enough they will wake up from the grave and KNOW the truth...

Then next time around THEY get to tell the tale

I've come to consider New Atheism a branch of the political Left.  One of the main characteristics of said Left in my experience, is an absolute refusal to take any responsibility whatsoever, for any aspect of who they are; and that especially includes their refusal to control their emotions, or even to recognise that their emotions belong to them.  They prefer to view their own emotional reactions as exclusively being caused by someone else.

Well so far its been a pretty quiet exchange  I don't see a lot of emotions and egos conversing with baseball bats

[ArMaP]

I have one advantage though... I KNOW that it doesn't matter what they choose to believe... because in the end soon enough they will wake up from the grave and KNOW the truth...

That's the problem, some people are sure that they KNOW for themselves, other people are sure that they KNOW because a book told them so, so while people think they KNOW they will always think all the others are wrong.

Me, I just have an opinion. It may be right or wrong, but it's just an opinion.

[zorgon]

Me, I just have an opinion. It may be right or wrong, but it's just an opinion.

That is as it should be  Reading a book can give you an opinion.. but experiences will let you KNOW

There are many on here who have had such experiences and KNOW...

So why would people that only have an opinion, not listen to them?

[ArMaP]

There are many on here who have had such experiences and KNOW...

So why would people that only have an opinion, not listen to them?

Listen, yes, consider it the truth, no, as what those people think they KNOW is a result of their interpretation of their experiences.

[rdunk]

Listen, yes, consider it the truth, no, as what those people think they KNOW is a result of their interpretation of their experiences.

Yes, ArMaP, I agree with you on this point. Experiences/NDE's can go in various directions, some having heavenly experiences, some having experiences of hell, and some having experiences not much related to reality.

Another point on this, "reading a book" is just reading a book! Even reading the Bible, while being informative, is still just reading a book -  it is not life changing.............until one sees just enough in the scriptures to understand that Jesus gave his life that man could again be a part of the family of God, and have eternal life. When a person accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior, then what is said in that book becomes alive to us, with the understanding that love and faith are God-given to us - so that we can now live our lives here in a different way, with Him. The circumstances of this Earth remain the same, but as Christians, they no longer control our destiny.

There are much misunderstanding by many about those who are Christian! Christians are forgiven from all sin, and saved for eternity, but, Christians still live and walk in the same sinful fleshly bodies, which are still subject to the assaults of the evil one. As we grow in the Word, we can become better prepared to "resist the devil". There is a scripture that tells us to "take every thought captive", because often our thoughts can be the beginning of sinful acts. But there is nothing greater than the forgiveness of God and his love for each of us!