Stephen Fry Annihilates God

[rdunk]

I do understand and appreciate your comments space otter!! Yes, our individual "view of things" does create "lines in the sand" for us, so to speak, in that in many instances our views are foundational to all that we are, think, say, and do. And that is the case for us, in most of the primary aspects of our lives. Some are taught views that we have accepted, and some are views learned in life which we adopt and adapt into our very being as a person - we become who we as we live our lives by what we know and by what we believe to be truth.

We all are human, and we do often make mistakes, some of which also are continuing formational to our lives and learning. There are two significant places that play a major role in every aspect of our lives, and that is our mind and our heart. These two do/can work together, but they also can lead/go in different directions at times, and cause us to do or not do that which we should or shouldn't. And that is an element of life that we all do face continually in our lives.

But...........for each of us, with whatever is the subject, our "firm view of things" are often foundational aspects of our lives, and in many cases are not negotiable, from the absolute love of friends and family, to the absolute believing and accepting the God of this Universe (which you know I do). There are simply some things with which there is no room/margin for negotiation - for instance my Christian beliefs are not, because my first step of negotiation would equal a step of total denial of my faith in what I believe to be the very truth of God! And I do assume that to be the case for most believers, Christian and others.

There are many, if not most, things subject to altering views/negotiation in our lives- politics, family matters, aliens or not aliens, and etc. But, when it involves LIFE and death matters, then we do need to stay grounded in what is absolutely right for each of our own selves!!:)

[petrus4]

Bone cancer?  What's that about?  How dare you?

This is the central point.  New Atheism is not about disbelief in a God or Gods; it's about hatred of them.  The New Atheists are not genuinely concerned with whether or not anything non-material exists; they are primarily consumed with hatred of Yahweh, specifically.

I could have gone down that path myself, but I didn't.  My departure from Christianity was a long process, but I was drawn to the worship of Kali Ma in July of 2007.  I also made a deliberate, conscious decision from the word go, that regardless of what happened, I was never going to hate Yahweh; and that was ultimately the only thing that allowed me to release the fear of Hell, and move on with my life.  All right; so I was born purely for destruction, as Paul wrote.  I have still had life, and I know what a miracle that is.  So let me burn forever if I am going to, but I will remain grateful for what I have had.

The creatures came rushing on, their eyes brighter and brighter as they drew nearer and nearer to the standing Stars. But as they came right up to Aslan one or other of two things happened to each of them. They all looked straight in his face; I don't think they had any choice about that. And when some looked, the expression of their faces changed terribly—it was fear and hatred: except that, on the faces of Talking Beasts, the fear and hatred lasted only for a fraction of a second. You could see that they suddenly ceased to be Talking Beasts. They were just ordinary animals. And all the creatures who looked at Aslan in that way swerved to their right, his left, and disappeared into his huge black shadow, which (as you have heard) streamed away to the left of the doorway. The children never saw them again. I don't know what became of them. But the others looked in the face of Aslan and loved him, though some of them were very frightened at the same time. And all these came in at the Door, in on Aslan's right.

The Christians demonised me.  They consistently told me that I was going to Hell, and in the end, I believed them.  I don't know if anyone here has experienced what it is like to literally believe that you are going to Hell, but it is a difficult thing to describe.  I had a man from the local church see me in the local supermarket once and become almost rigid with fear of me, when all I was doing was buying vegetables.

I went to Hell, though.  During 2005, I had a series of very vivid dreams, about being locked inside various kinds of prison complexes, which housed not only human, but extremely non-human beings.  The Christians convinced me that I was a Hell-spawned monster, so I took the face of an Orc, and chose a demon slayer as my Goddess.  For a time, if only vicariously, until I healed, I would become their monster; until I met someone from the Church of Satan in California, who assisted me in discovering whose side I am really on, regardless of what the Christians think.  Then archangel Michael came, and I learned about the existence of the Essenes, and what Christianity really is, which most Christians themselves do not know.





"The blood haze has lifted.  The demon's fire has burned out in my veins!  I... have... freed... myself!"

I have turned Hell from a source of fear, to a source of strength.  Using or being attracted to Nepalese and Plutonian aesthetics is now second nature for me; lots of Scorpionic red and black.  While there are still lots of things that I am afraid of, three things that I am not, are demons, fire, and the dark.  I have faced my demons, and I am still facing them.  I talk to them almost every night.  I haven't purged all of them yet, but they don't bother me like they used to.

What Mr. Fry has to realise is that you only get out of Christianity one way; and that is by undergoing the experience that Jesus himself did.  Jesus went to Hell for three days and came back, and that is shamanic initiation.  The greatest and most disempowering lie that the church has ever told, is to imply that Jesus' power is not accessible to every last one of us.  Many of the words he spoke were devoted to telling us that.

Something else I'm slowly realising, is that you can never be free of anything for as long as you hate it.  For as long as Mr. Fry hates Christianity - for as long as he keeps mentally screaming, "How dare you?" - he will remain bound.  I wrote hateful tirades about Islam on this site, not that long ago.  I used to hate New Atheism itself as well.  While I still don't particularly want to be around members of either of those two groups for the most part, the passion is gone now.  If I hate Allah, he is my jailor.  If I hate Richard Dawkins, he is my jailor.  If I hate Yahweh, he is my jailor; but I do not, so he never was.

I am not Christian now, and I never will be again.  They have lost me.  I have read Albert Pike, among other things, and I have learned more than most of them know.  Pike wanted me to leave Christianity and worship Satan.  I left the church, but I have not done the latter.  Pike wanted me to hate God, and become an atheist.  I have not done that.  My journey was not all my doing.  I had the intent, but I have been given grace, and I acknowledge that.

Most Christians would still consider me damned, if they knew about my perspective.  That's fine, as far as I am concerned.  Let them think that.  I know that I have addressed the God of Israel as my father, and asked him if he was going to send me to Hell, and I heard him tell me no, with regret that they ever made me think he would.

Another thing to realise, is that the attitude of fundamentally helpless victimhood which Fry demonstrates here, is an entirely inevitable consequence of materialism as a worldview.  If completely fixed, unchangeable physical reality is the only thing you acknowledge, then yeah, life is very predictably really going to suck.  As long as Fry thinks that, then he is going to suffer.

I can offer Fry a solution for his problem of evil.  I have recently discovered Neville Goddard, and as well as my previous experiences, reading him has continued to convince me that I am ultimately responsible for every single thing that happens to me, whether good or bad.  We all are.  Yes, God helps sometimes; but Neville Goddard mentions that God remains in us and recreates himself in us, which means that we have creative agency.

Stephen Fry is one of very few members of the pantheon of New Atheism, who I have very positive feelings towards.  He is a genuinely principled and conscientious man, and I respect that.  He is, however, deeply misguided, and he also defiles himself with his continued anger, as I myself have done in the past.  I can only hope that eventually Stephen will allow himself to release that anger, to the point where he can start to really heal.  The agony that Christianity can cause, can be truly unbelievable.

I know.  I've been there.

[Elvis Hendrix]

Roll up Roll up!!, Get your religion ere! take your pick ladies and gents , Each one a beauty, all promising solace, sucre and redemption. which ones for you my dear, Roll up Roll up!

agnosticism       
Amish       
ancestor worship       
animism       
Asatrú       
atheism       
Aum Shinrikyo       
Bahá'í Faith       
Brahma Kumari       
Branch Davidians       
Buddhism       
Celtic Paganism         
Chen Tao       
Chinese religion       
Christadelphians       
Christian Apostolic Church in Zion       
Christianity       
Concerned Christians       
Confucianism       
Dami Xuanjiao       
deism       
Divine Lightmission       
Druidism       
Druze       
dualism       
Ebionites       
Eckankar       
Gnosticism       
Hare Krishna       
Heathenism         
Heaven's Gate       
Hinduism       
Hookers for Jesus / The Family of God       
Humanism       
Islam       
Jain       
Jedi Knights         
Jehovah's Witnesses       
Judaism         
Mennonite       
Mithraism       
monotheism         
Mysticism       
Native American Church       
New Age       
no religion       
occultism       
Order of the Solar Temple       
Paganism         
pantheism       
People's Temple       
polytheism       
Raja Yoga       
Rastafarian       
Ravidassia       
Salvation Army       
Santería       
Satanism       
Scientology       
Shamanism         
Shinto       
Sikhism       
Spiritualism       
Taoism       
theism         
Thelema       
Theosophy       
Traditional African Church       
Unification Church       
Unitarianism       
Unitarian-Universalism       
Unitas Fratrum       
Universalism       
Vodun/Voodoo       
Wicca       
Witchcraft       
Yezidism       
Zhu Shen Jiao       
Zoroastrianism       


http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html

[Senduko]

Except... a boulder bigger than he can lift...  Tough on that

I see what you did there, I love that one. Really food for thought.
Call me simple but we are all GOD, we create our own universe.

[ArMaP]

Or, if you want to know about a particular religious thing, then seek out those who have reason to have specific knowledge/involvement in your religious area of interest, not those who have no direct involvement with it! ................I think!

I agree, but what if (again ) we want to know about what's behind the religion itself, what were the reasons for the creation of that specific religion?

Who should we talk to?

Does the mechanic know what the inventor of the car was thinking?

[ArMaP]

The New Atheists are not genuinely concerned with whether or not anything non-material exists; they are primarily consumed with hatred of Yahweh, specifically.

That's why I don't like those "new" versions of most things, as they look like something else disguised under an old name.

If an atheist thinks people that believe in god(s) wrong, why would he/she hate them or, even worse, hate their god(s), something that he/she doesn't think exists?

[rdunk]

Petrus4 said, "Most Christians would still consider me damned, if they knew about my perspective.  That's fine, as far as I am concerned.  Let them think that.  I know that I have addressed the God of Israel as my father, and asked him if he was going to send me to Hell, and I heard him tell me no, with regret that they ever made me think he would".

Wow petrus, you have really been through much, in dealing with the religious/non-religious thought elements of your life. And yes, it is not a good thing to experience some of the religious dealings you have had with others, especially with Christians, no matter how well intended. However, in reality, I suppose most "religions" do have very "basic facts in what they(we) believe that are "hard grounded". Some of what you say reflects that at times in your life, when others have been expressing those "hard grounded areas", it wasn't done in a loving compassionate way, which simply turns most of us off, to what often times could be a truth(s) we need!

You certainly have had a very difficult time with your belief systems, but I can easily recognize a marked difference often in your comments here, compared to how you were prone to comment in the not too distant past - for the better, for you IMO!! I think you just seem to be more at ease with life things!! Do I think you are there yet? Well, you know my answer to that! But, I do think that as long as you have a heart that remains open to the truth, you may yet find more reason to see the reality of those truths.

Petrus, I do wonder whether your bad feelings toward Christianity are because of what you saw/found in reading the Bible, or was it simply because of a/some misdirected Christians who were banging you on the head? In any case, if you ever wonder about "what is it about Christianity", and "why do so many people believe it to be the truth it", or why do they etc--  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  , just get yourself a Bible, and read it for yourself, and know that the words can and will speak directly to you and your heart. That way, you can at least get a straight understanding of what God, Jesus, and His Word are all about. You never know - you could still have more life changing changes to make in your life!!   If you ever do decide to do more Bible reading, I suggest that you start with the New Testament/New Covenant, as much of the Old Testament presents a "shadow" of things to come in the New Testament. Both Testaments present a wealth of knowledge about God and his "man", but The New Testament is wherein God "knocked a home run" (sacrificed his Son) for the salvation of His man - US!!

Petrus, thanks for sharing with us much of your personal experiences of many years over!!

[rdunk]

This direct statement probably does somewhat fit with this OP discussion!

[ArMaP]

This direct statement probably does somewhat fit with this OP discussion!

The full quote is:

How well I have learned that there is no fence to sit on between heaven and hell. There is a deep, wide gulf, a chasm, and in that chasm is no place for any man.

And I agree, for those that believe in heaven and hell.

[Dyna]

And I agree, for those that believe in heaven and hell.

I don't think humans are made for heaven they are made for Earth. Hell is simply the grave and being removed from the creator. In other words Jesus was dead three days.

No need for a resurrection is people were not in their graves at death.It is said many times the dead are dead.

"But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]. For since death came through a man [Adam], the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man [Jesus Christ]" (1 Corinthians 15:12-21, NIV).

The angels who were cast into their hell which is Earth as they could no longer go home but had to remain here after their bad decision.

http://www.godsplanforall.com/mistranslationstomeanhell

I think the various religions have built up false beliefs and fear for power and prestige and money. I think it is all very simple, the truth is written in our hearts and minds, DNA. I don't think we need do any ceremonies or anything but live decent lives and be patient.

[rdunk]

The full quote is:How well I have learned that there is no fence to sit on between heaven and hell. There is a deep, wide gulf, a chasm, and in that chasm is no place for any man. Johnny Cash

And I agree, for those that believe in heaven and hell.

Thanks ArMaP for giving us the complete quote! This gives us even a better understanding of Johnny Cash's thoughts about these two places!

[rdunk]

I think the various religions have built up false beliefs and fear for power and prestige and money. I think it is all very simple, the truth is written in our hearts and minds, DNA. I don't think we need do any ceremonies or anything but live decent lives and be patient.

Dyna, the truth or consequences of your statement will for sure be known one day soon. I will simply say, that is not what the words of the Bible teach. Your statement does sound good to our ears and minds of the flesh, but "living decent lives and being patient" I believe will not lead to a desired ending.

Dyna, you are certainly right with what you said about "humans not being made for heaven"! Heaven is not a place for bodies of the flesh! Rather it is a place for bodies of the Spirit - God is a Spirit, and in the Bible much is said about the Spirit of God. Jesus even says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)

[Dyna]

The thing is I have no worries over it, I have faith that we are a created species and that the creator loves us. If there is it be a new heavens and a new earth, it needs to be populated by the right proven creatures and if I am not one I am glad I will go off into eternal death as I know that is the consequence.

I think as Jesus was an example of simpleness, non materialistic kindness, separated from the governing and religious bodies of his day whatever may have been said by whomever since.

I believe there are other gods that require ceremony and offerings, special dress and honor for their priests and special buildings and gold statues to honor them. I believe that such that seems to have been required of the Jews is misinterpreted at the least.

[burntheships]

I don't think we need do any ceremonies or anything but live decent lives and be patient.

How true, if most would live their life in light of this.

And I keep smiling laughing at the title of this thread, I dont
know who this Fry guy is...though I can say that in my world
God is alive and well.

[petrus4]

And I keep smiling laughing at the title of this thread, I dont
know who this Fry guy is...though I can say that in my world
God is alive and well.

He is a decent man.  A kind man.  He is, however, also a hubristic and passionately angry man; and rage can drive otherwise good people to do truly unspeakable things.

"You have seen me when the bloodlust has come upon me. You have seen me wade in blood up to my knees. I have killed the children of the humans ere now. But we gave all we had fighting in that manner, and where has it brought to us? Low and defeated, our kind slouch in camps and lift no hand to free themselves, let alone fight for others. That way of fighting, of making war, has brought us to this. Long have I thought that the ancestors would show me a new way, a way to win back what we have lost. It is a fool who repeats the same actions expecting a different outcome, and whatever I may be, I am not a fool."
-- Grom Hellscream

I can not judge anyone who is angry, without being a hypocrite.  I can not judge anyone who wishes to employ overwhelming violence, simply because they believe that they have no other means of ending their suffering, than by murdering those who they perceive to be causing it.

Anger and what it leads to is not a solution, if for no other reason than because you are still engaging and interacting with that which you are angry with.  The solution is simply to cease associating with that which you are angry with, and cease giving it your consent.  Resistance towards that which is not wanted, does not and ultimately can not create that which is wanted.  As Bucky Fuller correctly recognised, the only way to get rid of that which is not wanted, is to replace it with that which is wanted.

More than anything else, the one thing I believe we as a society need to replace, is prestige, or "coolness," as a concept.  We can't stop people from wanting to respect or revere things, but what we can do is ensure that that which is revered, is only that which has solid, defineable integrity and tangible benefit behind it.  This is why manifestos are actually extremely good things, because what a well-written manifesto does, is provide a tangible, testable definition of a desired good; and in so doing, renders that good immune to malevolent perversion by the Hegelian dialectic.  Two and two can never equal five.

While it is true at the ultimate level that that which can be codified as the Tao is not the Tao, I think it is still both possible and beneficial to codify a given thing's external or objectively measurable attributes.  The letter enables guardianship of the spirit.  In this we see the paradox presented by Saturn and Uranus, Aquarius' ruling planets.  Saturn insists that material reality exists.  Uranus, conversely, permits transcendance of supposedly inviolable physical reality.

Zorgon wants to be a king.  I genuinely do apologise to him for the degree of resentment that I have directed towards him for that in the past; because astrology has reminded me that monarchy genuinely has its' place.  The planets orbit the Sun, and the Sun corresponds with monarchy.

Yet what does this mean?  It means, as Mencius taught, that the only legitimate basis of monarchy is generosity, and both the willingness and prodigious or unique ability to provide for the needs of others.  That is what the Sun does.  It gives light, heat, and energy to the other planets.  So here we have a precise, practical, operating definition of what monarchy is.  If Zorgon is truly capable of similarly providing nourishment to his subjects, then let him do so.

But we have another problem.  We are in the time of Aquarius.  Monarchy is a Leonine correspondence, and Aquarius is the opposite sign of Leo.  Supposedly, that means strained, unnatural "equality," of the kind that Marx advocated; and Pol Pot and Stalin have already shown us where that path leads.

The Law of Polarity can come to our rescue, here.  Polarity reminds us that seeming opposite extremes exist on a spectrum, and there is a line running between them.  Viewed from this perspective, we understand that Aquarius is not the opposite of Leo at all, but its' refinement and completion.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
-- Jesus Christ, Matthew 5:17-18, KJV

The point is not to get rid of kings.  The point is to have a very large multiplicity of small, individual kingdoms.  This is the definition of a network, and a network is one of Aquarius' most fundamental correspondences. 

This, ironically, is also what the former USSR claimed itself to be, before the concept was hijacked.  The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.  The problem did not come from having soviet socialist republics, at all.  The problem came from having a union of them.  In making Moscow the capital, the Russians might as well have re-instated the Tsar, for all the good it did them.  Individual realms must have autonomy.  They can have contact with other realms, by all means; but they must also have sovereignty within their own domains.  Unity is always a euphemism for tyranny; and this is also why I am an advocate of the articles of Confederation which were originally proposed for America, but not the centralised Republic.  A king must be king in his own state, but only in his own state.

At first, it may appear that my above writing is a divergence and a tangent from this thread's discussion, but I have realised in the end, that it is not so.  Mr. Fry is here raging against his own misperception of the unjust authority of Yahweh.  Yet his problem is not in reality with God.  We live in a pluralistic universe.  There are spirits who are motivated by mutual benefit, and there are spirits who are motivated by predatory self-interest which is detrimental to others.  It is precisely because God is good, that he allows spirits which cause things like bone cancer to continue to exist. 

This is what Mr. Fry and many other Atheists apparently do not understand.  If we were to have a universe where bone cancer was not permitted, then we might find ourselves living in a universe where many things which we had previously considered good, were not permitted also.  What causes bone cancer?  How do you seperate that thread from the rest of the universe?  How do you isolate it?  If, as both quantum physics and the Native Americans tell us, we are all connected, then a universe without bone cancer can not exist, and still be the same universe.  Everything is necessary.

If Mr. Fry wants to erradicate bone cancer, then let him look into the law of Polarity, and discover which state bone cancer is the opposite of.  Then let him find the correspondences of said opposite state of bone cancer, and apply them to the bone cancer, which will cause it to leave.  While I know virtually nothing about bone cancer specifically, the law of Correspondence tells me that bone cancer, like all other things, only wishes to exist among other conditions which are similar to it.  Nothing enjoys absolute solitude.

Mr. Fry says God is evil.  I say that the Gods are fundamentally benevolent, that they can not be anything else for the universe to continue functioning, and that their revealing of Hermetic law to me, is my proof of that.  Mr. Fry needs to learn much more than what he currently knows, about how the universe really functions; and once he does so, not only will his anger vanish, but he will realise that anger is not in his own best interests.