IMPORTANT NOTE: This thread is to provide a place for the discussion of the aspect of the lawsuit (highlighted below in orange) where an accusation is made that "NASA Promotes Religion Masquerading as Science." The rest of the lawsuit is reproduced for completeness. The thread will be closely moderated to keep it on topic.
The scientific and technological accusations will be discussed in a second thread to be published in our new board: Need Another Space Agency? Details to follow.
Press release sourced from http://cosmology.com/ Reproduced with permission in its entirety. Apologies posting this late.
NASA SERVED WITH LAWSUIT BY RHAWN JOSEPH, PH.D. http://Cosmology.com/NASALawsuit.pdf
June 14, 2012
Rhawn Joseph, Ph.D. has served NASA with a 60 page Federal lawsuit for a variety of criminal, civil, ethical, and other offenses including fraud, deceit, slander, defamation, negligence, incompetence, censorship, altering and lying about scientific data, misappropriation of public funds, and flagrant violations of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Defendants named in the suit include NASA employees and administrators. The lawsuit includes 4 Exhibits, one of which proves NASA has been tampering with scientific evidence and adding 4 layers of visual noise to space shuttle film footage to hide and obscure evidence of anomalous life-like structures engaged in complex life-like behavior 200 miles above the planet. NASA has a 50 year history of maliciously attacking, and funding and encouraging fraudulent, slanderous, defamatory attacks on discoveries of microbial extraterrestrial life, and lying about the evidence, and has committed these crimes in service of their religious beliefs which they masquerade as science, and so there will be no calls for the expenditure of funds to investigate. NASA's primary agenda is the commercialization of space not the exploration of space and NASA has spent over $100 billion on ventures with little scientific value while simultaneously cutting the space exploration budget. NASA is not only lying to us, but stealing from us.
Because of NASA's history of deceit, harassment, censorship, slanders, malicious attacks and lies, it is impossible to resolve these issues and to expose the truth except in a court of law.
As detailed in this lawsuit and as summarized here:
NASAs 50 YEAR HISTORY OF LYING ABOUT EXTRATERRESTRIAL MICROBES
NASA has waged a terrorist campaign of lies, deceit, fraud, defamation, libel and slander, to discredit all discoveries which demonstrate the existence of extraterrestrial microbial and other forms of extraterrestrial life, including evidence of 1) microbial microfossils discovered in over a dozen meteorites by five separate teams of independent investigators(Claus & Nagy 1961; Hoover 2011; Pflug 1984; Nagy et al. 1963a,b; Zhmur and Gerasimenko 1999), 2) a single microbe and organic matter of unknown origin discovered on and within a lunar camera retrieved from the Moon (Mitchell & Ellis, 1971; Flory and Simoneit, 1972), 3) Evidence of biological activity on Mars (Levin 2010; Levin and colleagues 2012), 4) Evidence of Martian microfossils and extraterrestrial biological activity in three meteors which originated on Mars (McKay et al 1996), 5) Evidence from 12 Space Shuttle Missions demonstrating, conclusively, the existence of anomalous life-like plasma-like structures engaging in complex life-like behaviors, and which congregate near sources of electromagnetic activity over 200 miles above Earth. See: http://Cosmology.com/ExtraterrestrialExtremophiles.html .
The first reports of the detection of microbial fossils in meteorites were published in the prestigious scientific journal, Nature by Claus, Nagy and others (Claus and Nagy, 1961; Nagy et al, 1962, 1963). These included an assortment of fossilized bacteria in meteors older than this solar system, including algae and cyanobacteria. Defendant NASA immediately launched, directed, and funded a vigorous campaign of refutation and denial, and funded a slander campaign and defamatory attacks on these scientists and their discoveries (NASA Grant NsG-366). It was fraudulently claimed in NASA publications that the findings of microfossils were "a deliberate hoax" and due to "deliberate...contamination" (pages 4,5). However, there was absolutely no evidence that the findings were in any way due to contamation. These were NASA funded lies. Rather, it was Defendant NASA which was engaged in a deliberate hoax.
During that same period, particles of biological origin were discovered in the upper atmosphere, and with an infall rate of tens of thousands of cells per year (Greene et al, 1962-65). The only scientific explanation is that these are extraterrestrial in origin and were falling to Earth from space. However, once the discovery was made, Defendant NASA again attacked, and this exciting programme of work was suddenly halted by funds being withdrawn by NASA.
In 2011, when the Journal of Cosmology published Richard Hoover's peer reviewed discovery of microfossils in meteors, NASA again orchestrated a campaign of lies and slanderous, defamatory attacks which were voiced by NASA administrators and employees who had never examined the evidence and had no expertise in the subject matter and who were jealous of the Journal of Cosmology which had over 430,000 readers.
NASA LIES ABOUT BIOLOGICAL ACTIVITY ON MARS
In 1976, 1977, NASA again engaged in a campaign of fraud, lies, and deceit after the Viking landers detected evidence of biological activity on Mars and Martian life (Levin 2010; Levin and collagues 2012). Levin's instrument, known as the Labeled Release (LR) experiment, yielded positive results at Chryse Planitia and Utopia Planitia, the two Viking landing sites. However, after evidence of biological activity was reported, Defendant NASA denounced the discovery and then postponed, sabotaged and cancelled all future life-detection experiments despite the minimal costs involved; and they did so to prevent additional discoveries of extraterrestrial life.
Specifically, the "Labeled Release" (LR) experiment took a sample of Martian soil and added a nutrient that contained radioactive carbon. The purpose was to detect the presence of radioactivity in the gasses released that would indicate biological activity. A control experiment treated a second sample that had been sterilized. In every experiment conducted, positive results were obtained from the unsterilized sample, and negative results were obtained for the sterilized sample. Thus, the LR experiment proved there was life on Mars. Nevertheless, NASA, and NASA administrators (e.g. Vance Oyama, Ames Research Center, NASA), publicly stated that "there was no need to invoke biological processes" to explain the results obtained from the experiments. NASA is lying. Gil Levin and colleagues (2010, 2012) have demonstrated that the Viking experiments revealed a "robust biological response. These analyses support the interpretation that the Viking LR experiment did detect extant microbial life on Mars."
NASA CENSORS AND LIES ABOUT LIFE 200 MILES ABOVE EARTH
In addition to scientific fraud, NASA has altered, censored, and sought to destroy evidence of extraterrestrial life, a crime known as Spoliation of Evidence. Defendants have a duty to preserve and protect material evidence and records. See 32 ATLA L. Rep. 230-33 (Aug. 1989) (citing Wilson v. Beloit 97 Corp., 869 F.2d 1162 (8th Cir. 1989) and other cases). California recognizes spoilation as a tort. Smith v. Superior Court., 151 Cal. App.3d. 491, 198 Cal. Rptr. 829 (1984). The spoliation of evidence is purposeful. NASA added 4 layers of dense visual noises to all nighttime film footage shot by space shuttle missions and the International Space Station and they implemented a 20 second broadcast delay to stop broadcasting when anything unusual appears (Exhibit 4).
NASA is hiding, distorting, obscuring, tampering with, and lying about evidence which demonstrates conclusively the existence of anomalous objects engaging in complex life-like behaviors and thus evidence of extraterrestrial alien life 200 miles above this planet.
As compiled by this Plaintiff, Rhawn Joseph, Ph.D., and as detailed in Exhibits 1,2,3, there is over 30 minutes of NASA film footage shot from a dozen shuttle missions showing these anomalous life-like structures engaging in complex life-like behaviors 200 miles above the planet, but only under conditions involving the generation of electromagnetic and other powerful forces of energy. To use an analogy, large numbers of these extraterrestrial life forms are attracted to and congregate around and above and near these energy sources much like a moth is attracted to a light or a flame. By contrast, there is little or no evidence of these life-like structures or these life-like behaviors in the absence of these powerful energy sources. If these structures were "ice", "space junk", or were due to any of the fraudulent explanations provided by NASA and other Defendants, they should appear in large numbers regardless of conditions, and not just when powerful energy sources are present.
As detailed in Exhibits 1,2,3, and despite Defendants censorship and distortion of this scientific data (Exhibit 4), Plaintiff Rhawn Joseph, Ph.D., has documented the following based on frame-by-frame plotting and computerized analysis of flight path trajectories: 1) dozens of those life-like extraterrestrial alien structures are several meters in size, 2) these structures have four distinct shapes, i.e. sperm shaped, cloud-shaped, donut-shaped, cone-shaped, 3) these structures suddenly or gradually change direction including making 45 degree shifts, 90 degree shifts, and 180 degree shifts in their angle of trajectory, 4) some of these structures turn 90 to 180 degrees and follow one another, 5) some approach, contact and physically interact with one another, 6) some speed up and slow down, 7) some make sudden sharp turns and accelerate to great speeds, 8) some accelerate to great speeds and intercept other structures passing through them completely, 9) some speed toward and congregate 200 miles above hurricanes and electric storms and slow down and descend into these storms, 10) they have converged upon and congregated around and crawled upon an electrified satellite and satellite tether, 200 miles above Earth, 11) computerized analysis and frame by frame visual observations and tracking proves conclusively these structures are engaging in complex behaviors which would be impossible for "space junk", "ice", "shooting stars", or any of the other lies NASA offers up to explain away what is in fact one of the greatest discoveries in the history of science.
Per Plaintiff Rhawn Joseph's request, an internationally recognized expert on "space debris" who has consulted with NASA, has written or co-authored reports for NASA and is a principal investigator in NASA STTR program, i.e. removal of debris from space, reviewed footage of the 1996 broken tether incident (Shuttle Mission STS-75). Because of fears of repercussions from NASA, he was promised anonymity and that his report would be confidential, and he concluded the structures were not space junk or other debris, and were a mystery and "mysterious" and thus, what they really were, was unknown to him. However, after determining this material was not space junk, because of fears of reprisal from Defendant NASA, this expert withdrew from further participation and declined to comment further.
NASA, and the other defendants, have never conducted any investigation, refuses to investigate these discoveries, have never examined any of the evidence, have offered up bizarre lies when confronted with the evidence, and have instituted a 20 second delay before film footage is broadcast and has added 4 layers of visual noise to block, obscure, censor, distort, and prevent scientific research or analysis of these life-like structures, and has engaged in a campaign of scientific fraud, bizarre lies and deceit, by falsely telling the public and the scientific community that these objects are "shooting stars," "ice," "space junk," and distortions created by the camera when these explanations are completely false and are refuted by the evidence. NASA has not instituted a 20 second broadcast delay and is not adding 4 layers of visual noise to hide "space junk", "ice", "shooting stars", and so on. There is only one explanation for a 20 second broadcast delay and the insertion of 4 layers of visual noise: to censor scientific data demonstrating extraterrestrial alien life 200 miles above this planet.
NASA PROMOTES RELIGION MASQUERADING AS SCIENCE
NASA is lying about the evidence of extraterrestrial life not just to divert funds for private profiteering and the commercialization of space, but because of religion, and religious beliefs. The Jewish religious book, the Tenakh, and the Christian Bible make no mention of extraterrestrial life, and state that life arose on Earth under super natural conditions, and thus NASA and other defendants claim life originated on Earth under super natural conditions and there is no evidence of extraterrestrial life. Further, they use the government to force their religious beliefs on the public and the scientific community, and to punish, slander, defame, and libel those scientists who conduct research, make discoveries, or publish theories which Defendants believe are contrary to their religious beliefs.
The official position of NASA and the other Defendants, is that life originated on Earth; a position without any scientific foundation, which is refuted by the evidence, and which is based on the Jewish and Christian religions; specifically the religious belief that after its formation the Earth had special life producing powers and thus life emerged from Earth under super natural conditions. The religious dogma that life began on Earth and originated from special properties possessed by Earth, is the official position of Defendant NASA and the other Defendants, and is detailed in chapter 1 of the Tenakh, i.e. the first of the five books of Moses known as the Torah, and which is also known as the "Old Testament" of the Christian Bible. According to these religious books and chapters, their "god" did not create life, but rather life emerged from the Earth and sea because the earth possessed the essential ingredients and powers to create life from non-life: "Let the land produce vegetation" (Genesis 1:11). "Let the water teem with living creatures," (Genesis 1:20). "Let the land produce living creatures," (Genesis 1:24).
As summed up by an early "father" of the Catholic Church, Saint Augustine, the Earth had special life giving powers for producing life: "The earth is said...to have received the power of producing" (Augustine, 1957). This view on the origin of life, which is based on chapter 1 of the Tenakh, Torah, and "Old Testament" is identical to that of the various Defendants and Defendant NASA. NASA is promoting religion masquerading as science, religion dressed up in the language of science, and maliciously attacks those who present evidence of extraterrestrial life, because the existence of extraterrestrial life directly challenges these religious beliefs.
NASA SLANDERS JOURNAL OF COSMOLOGY
NASA and other Defendants have slandered and defamed the Journal of Cosmology whose contributors and authors include astronauts, men who walked on the Moon, and dozens of scientists from NASA including two NASA senior scientists science directorates who published 5 articles which they were required to revise after peer review. Although NASA senior scientist science directorate Joel Levine praised the Journal of Cosmology's rigorous peer review process at a NASA press conference at NASA headquarters in January 2011, and discussed the Journal with Paul Hertz of NASA that same month, two months later Hertz slandered and defamed the Journal by falsely claiming it does not peer review its articles, and Hertz did so to destroy the reputation of the Journal for publishing peer reviewed discoveries of extraterrestrial microfossils and extraterrestrial biological activity found in meteorites.
NASA administrators and employees including David Morrison, Rocco Mancinelli, and Paul Hertz, joined in these slanderous, defamatory attacks, although, as detailed in this lawsuit, none of them had examined the evidence nor were they qualified to speak about the evidence or the Journal's editorial policies. Mancinelli, for example, admitted his experience was limited to looking "at thousands of microbes through a microscope, and done some of my own electron microscopy." A droplet of pond water, or a single droplet from a sneeze or a cough typically contains hundreds of millions of diverse bacteria, and even a child looking through a microscope at such samples has had more experience as admitted to by Mancinelli. Likewise, experience limited to "some electron microscopy" hardly qualifies Mancinelli as an expert. Further, Mancinelli and Morrison are directly associated with two obscure journals whose combined readership is estimated at less than 10,000 whereas in March of 2011, when they were attacking and slandering the Journal of Cosmology, the Journal's readership was over 430,000. As alleged in this lawsuit, their motives for these slanders included jealously and their allegations constitute defamation and trade libel.
NASA and its employees also encouraged a host of charlatans and frauds to join in these slanderous attacks, and these individuals are also placed on notice that they will be named as defendants. As summed up by Plaintiff Dr. Rhawn Joseph, NASA fostered a mob mentality of "frothing at the mouth lunatics, with their torches and pitchforks, lumbering forth, hooting and grunting in fear, seeking to destroy what frightens them and what they don't understand."
As stated in this lawsuit the Defendants engaged in these slanders because the Journal of Cosmology was the only popular scientific journal (with over 430,000 readers) which was willing to publish theories and evidence which challenged the Defendants' super natural religious beliefs and NASA's agenda which is private profiteering and the commercialization of the space program.
NASA LIES ABOUT MOON MICROBE, CANCELS APOLLO PROGRAM
NASA has a 50 year history of lying about the evidence of extraterrestrial life and has cancelled life detection experiments and exploratory programs including the Apollo Program, so funds could be diverted for commercial financial gain.
Consider, for example, in 1971, a TV camera from the lunar Surveyor Space Craft was retrieved by Apollo 12 astronauts, after sitting nearly 3 years on the moon, and a single dormant bacterium (Streptococcus mitis) was found within (Mitchell & Ellis, 1971). In addition, the lunar camera was discovered to be covered with a film of "organic material of unknown origin" (Flory and Simoneit, 1972). The possibility of contamination prior to sending the camera to the moon, or after it was returned, was ruled out by the scientists who made this discovery. Defendant NASA immediately launched a campaign of fraud, slander, and deception, and senior NASA administrators and Leonard D. Jaffe (Project Scientist, NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory) who were not present when the discovery was made and who was not in any way associated with the analysis, fraudulently claimed "that a dirty work bench was responsible" and perpetuated a hoax the discovery was due to contamination and thus negligence on the part of the scientists.
The fraud, lies, distortions, misinformation campaign, and hoax perpetrated by Defendant NASA is easily disproved. A dirty work bench would have contained trillions of diverse and thriving bacteria, not a single bacteria which was dormant and belonging to a single species. Nor could the microbe be the result of some other form of contamination, such as a sneeze or cough. Since a droplet of saliva contains an average of 750 million organisms, if contamination of the lunar TV camera was due to a scientist's inadvertent cough or sneeze, a multitude of related bacteria, and a "representation of the entire microbial population would be expected," rather than a single species and a single dormant organism (Mitchell & Ellis, 1971). Moreover, this Streptococcus mitis was not only dormant, but came back to life. Contamination would have resulted in billions of diverse bacteria, not a single dormant species. Defendant NASA lied and engaged in fraud, and committed slander and defamation in order to dispute this solid evidence.
To prevent any investigation into life on the Moon, Defendant NASA not only lied about this discovery but then cancelled the Apollo program, allowing only one last mission the following year in December 1972. Defendant NASA was motivated to lie about this discovery for two primary reasons: 1) religion, and 2) their intention of defunding the scientific aspect of the space program and turning it into a commercial venture which would enrich private profiteers.
NASA LIES TO PROMOTE COMMERCIALIZATION OF SPACE PROGRAM: THE ISS
After the discovery of the moon microbe, NASA cancelled the Apollo program and began diverting public funds to what would become a 100 billion dollar boondoggle with little scientific value, and which is known today as the International Space Station (ISS), but in the early 1970s was to begin as a modular space station called "Freedom."
As recently summed up by Steven Weinberg co-recipient of the 1979 Nobel Prize in physics, the ISS is a waste of money and "has produced nothing of scientific value....The International Space Station is an orbital turkey. No important science has come out of it. I could almost say no science has come out of it."
As concluded in 2011, by the influential magazine, The Economist: "the benighted International Space Station (ISS) [is] surely the biggest waste of money, at $100 billion and counting, that has ever been built in the name of science."
The ISS was never meant for the purpose of science. Almost half of its so called "science lab" and "science racks" sit empty and have never been used. The fact is, the ISS was built as a model for the space tourism industry, to benefit commercial enterprises which constructed the parts for this "orbital turkey." Moreover, corporations and private companies are being paid or offered tax payer dollars to ferry supplies and eventually astronauts to the ISS; a job which could have been handled by the space shuttles but which NASA retired for disputed reasons.
The discovery of life on the Moon was a direct threat to their intentions to commercialize space, as it would have resulted in funds being spent instead on scientific investigation and more manned missions to the Moon, then to Mars which NASA opposed. Defendant NASA lied about this discovery and other discoveries of extraterrestrial life, to prevent the advancement of science or the making of discoveries which refuted their religious beliefs or interfered with their intentions to commercialize space.
LAWSUIT IS NECESSARY TO ADVANCE SCIENCE
The scientific community, the American tax payer, have been swindled and defrauded by defendant NASA which has engaged in wide spread fraud, libel, slander, defamation, censorship, and a terrorist campaign to discredit discoveries of extraterrestrial life. Given NASA's 50 history of lying about the evidence, and its malicious attacks on legitimate scientists, it is impossible to resolve these issues and to expose the truth except in a court of law.
Plaintiff Rhawn Joseph is confident this lawsuit will be easily won. Facts and hard evidence will easily prevail over NASA's lies.
This lawsuit 1) will force NASA to reallocate funds and increase funding for space and planetary exploration and restore programs which have been cut, 2) will launch a paradigm shift in scientific thought, an explosion in scientific research, and contribute to the advancement of science, 3) will establish there is convincing evidence of extraterrestrial life and that claims of "contamination" are fraudulent and baseless, 4) will demonstrate there is no convincing evidence life originated on Earth and that, instead, life has extraterrestrial origins, 4) will prove there is evidence of anomalous life-like plasma-like structures engaging in life-like behaviors 200 miles above the planet, 6) and it will established that the Journal of Cosmology and scientists who have published in this peer reviewed scientific journal, were slandered, libeled and defamed by NASA and its employees, in violation of the United States Constitution and those laws which protect citizens from government agencies and government employees who abuse their power to cause harm, commit fraud, suppress free speech, or force their beliefs on others.
It is recognized, of course, that the Defendants and their supporters, will fight this the only way they know how: by lying and through character assassination and slanderous, defamatory attacks. Their message is: "be afraid." My message to them is: "See you in court."
Ultimately this lawsuit is in the best interests of science and will serve to advance science and will usher in a paradigm shift and a scientific revolution so profound, it will shake and reshape the scientific foundations of the 21st century. Only those who fear the truth and the consequences of their lies, slanders and crimes, would oppose efforts to have these issues, and these ultimate questions as to the origins of life and the existence of extraterrestrial life, resolved based on factual evidence in a court of law. Because of NASA's history of deceit, harassment, censorship, slanders, malicious attacks, and lies, there is no other way.
I welcome your support.
Rhawn Joseph, Ph.D.
he's not getting my support. not because he may or may not be correct on some or many of his points but because he made the claim that the bible or tanakh does not talk about extra-terrestrials, which means he's part of the cover up and therefore, part of the problem.
watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ET7WXK4D_g
this comes down out of the heavens (one guy thinks it's pyramidal in shape as a pyramid can be the same width at the base, and the same height as the width. )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EwSC9X4WXQ
there's also the ascension of jesus into the heavens. and what of that verse where he's taken up into a "high mountain" and shown the whole earth, and then offered absolute control over it by "satan." what high mountain is high enough to see the whole earth?
and what of the book of enoch? good grief, there's more et like stuff in that per paragraph than most ufo books.
it bugs me that they can't come up with a solution to this dilemma without once again trying to blame it on christians (and jews).
And Undo.... what might some people think that you are? Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 08:17:33 PM
And Undo.... what might some people think that you are? Linda
oh let me guess. i'm to blame for nasa not telling the truth. that's how ridiculous that statement he made is. it's my fault (you have to read what that guy is saying, he's saying "christians". he's not limiting it to actual culprits but using it as an excuse to lambast entire groups of people based on their faith. he fails to mention other non-christian groups, because he's part of the problem. he wants everyone to think that christians and jews, in particular, are withholding information. yet, from just a cursory reading of related companies and programs like jet propulsion labs, it's pretty evident the place is not a "christian" organization nor a jewish one.
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 08:01:47 PM
he's not getting my support. not because he may or may not be correct on some or many of his points but because he made the claim that the bible or tanakh does not talk about extra-terrestrials, which means he's part of the cover up and therefore, part of the problem.
I agree that there are plenty of texts that mention what looks like ETs. However, I was posting to show that NASA are being accused of a cover-up.
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 08:01:47 PM
it bugs me that they can't come up with a solution to this dilemma without once again trying to blame it on christians (and jews).
I don't think the author is blaming all Christians and Jews for NASAs indescretions. He is accusing them of covering up and distorting scientific data to support an ideology. I think that is where he is on weaker ground to be fair.
I think it is fascinating that someone is considering taking NASA to court over an "alleged" cover-up of data.
Undo,
Somebody could have found that " red button" on you with their eyes closed! ;)
Would NASA lie to us? Ummmmm.... I believe that they would. Definitely. Just give them the proper financial incentive.... like.... losing funding.....
Just like other groups lied to us about plans to kill off Castro.... ( Oh.... WE wouldn't ever have a plan to do that! TRUST US! Right! and the funniest logic to that is.... Gee... hes still alive...those rumors that we had plans to knock him off must have been silly rumors... Silly us.... how could we have doubted them.)
Not being able to implement a plan does not mean that it does not exist.
I am not going to spend any time on this because it is just energy spent in the wrong direction for me... You guys have fun... let me know what you find.
And Undo...Believe what you wish and whatever makes you happy....we have choices here, all of us. Linda
this is a melting pot nation, although there are alot of christians and jews here, it's primarily a melting pot. every religion or non-religion on the planet, is represented. many scientists work for nasa, and last i heard, very few christians who happen to be scientists, are accepted by mainstream academia once they find out the person is a christian. this due to the insistence that the bible is bunk because of the papal interpretation of it. it's a vice grip. how are christians gonna get high profile jobs, at nasa, serious enough to give them access to the type of data the guy claims nasa is lying about?
oy. to be fair, there most certainly are christians working at nasa, and jews, and muslims and hindus and buddhists and atheists and satanists, etc. but to isolate it out to only christians and jews, i challenge anyone reading this thread to prove to me that werner von braun was a christian.
argh. it's the same thing as that stupid test they supposedly did that said that religious groups would freak and chaos would reign, if it were released officially, that there were real ets. good grief, christians have been talking about this subject for a long time now. people such as mr. joseph, want you to think, as the reader, that a 300 year old papal interpretation of life the universe and everything, is still the only view point of christians. number 1) that's PAPAL interpretation, meaning some popes, not even all popes. number 2) 300 years ago, mainstream science thought we'd never get to the moon.
they need to stop banging that drum as it is getting very old.
Undo, I changed my mind about it not being worth my time. You just said
"many scientists work for nasa, and last i heard, very few christians who happen to be scientists, are accepted by mainstream academia once they find out the person is a christian
What a pile of rotting garbage to put in front of us like that Undo! You should be ashamed of yourself!
"Last I heard". Yeah.... that works as a source!
Why don't you put your agenda away for awhile because that little red button on you has been activated and since you don't even know that you have it.... maybe you should look harder. Its flashing Undo. Somebody else is going to start pushing it.
I am surprised that I was the first.... but it was just way too tempting!!!! Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 09:05:33 PM
but it was just way too tempting!!!! Linda
i tempted you to harrass me? this i gotta hear.
Nope.... you can do this just fine all by yourself. You are well on your way Undo. Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 09:13:51 PM
Nope.... you can do this just fine all by yourself. You are well on your way Undo. Linda
i'm harrassing myself? so, mikado isn't harrassing you, you are harrassing you? do tell.
Undo.... You said that Christians were "put" upon in " acadmia.... Did I read that right?? You need to be a better student and do your homework
And when you challenge someone at least have your act together!!!!
( To others please note that I had ecited in an additional thought after Undo wrote her response below. Our messages are crossing in the aether! Linda)
Undo had said
i challenge anyone reading this thread to prove to me that werner von braun was a christian. http://ed5015.tripod.com/BVonBraun96.htm
Of course there is more to that too that meets the eye. The Nazis had what they called a " fat file" on Von Braun.... but the US needed him.... heck.... Disney needed him! and for that.... he needed to be a Christian. I frankly think that he did have a change of heart because of some of the things that he said later. But he was at least Presented as a christian to all those who supported him.
So do your homework before you whine more about how everyone else is picking on the Christians . Your broken record really does get old. I submit that Generally speaking Christian they have had it pretty good since Rome..... doing far better than.... lets say.... Pagans. Thinking of Missionaries in Hawaii..... the old saying was.... they came to " do good" and they did " real well".
And for the rest of your message.... I don't know what you are talking about but I find it interesting that you would feel inspired to write that.. Apparently someone else has hit that little red button too or you wouldn't have brought a certain name up. Good luck with that. Really.
Like I said.... put the button away Undo. Its flashing.
Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 09:32:51 PM
Undo.... You said that Christians were "put" upon in " acadmia.... Did I read that right?? You need to be a better student and do your homework
http://ed5015.tripod.com/BVonBraun96.htm
Of course there is more to that too that meets the eye. The Nazis had what they called a " fat file" on Von Braun.... but the US needed him.... heck.... Disney needed him! and for that.... he needed to be a Christian.
So do your homework before you whine more about how everyone else is picking on the Christians. I submit that they have had it pretty good since Rome.
And for the rest of it.... I don't know what you are talking about but apparently someone else has hit it too or names would not have been mentioned. Good luck with that.
Linda
i'll have you know that because christians are humans just like everyone else, that other christians have harrassed me as much if not more, for various reasons, than non-christians. just so you know i'm not saying that this makes them all
victims, but i'm not willing to suggest that it makes them all victimizers either. the big message jesus had was that everyone was equal,
that there's no more differentiation between a slave and a free person, and that we should treat each other with the respect we would like to be shown. well good grief charlie brown, have you been reading the stuff christians as a group, get blamed for these days? it's ludicrous.
if i was your best friend in the whole wide world, and i came to you and told you some guy told me that in the future i would either be his slave or dead, would you suggest i have a response? what if i told you that someone said i was an idiot because i believe in intelligent design? or that i was evil because i believed the planet was older than 6000 years? or what about the guy that told me that women are not important to god. and white women, even less so, and as a christian, i am an offspring of esau, and god hated esau but loved jacob? or that all christians should be lined up and shot, hung by the neck, beat to death, raped and then beat to death, raped breasts chopped off and then beat to death, lobotomized so we can't spread our ignorance. sterilized so we can't spread our ignorance, etc ad nauseum, etc.
would you tell me they were right? i mean i'm thinking you'd give me advice of some kind, either to ignore it (as if you would if someone suggested people of your description were bad evil responsible for stuff some guys did 1000 years ago or longer who were not even the same religion ), or to tell them to stuff it in their ear or something.
you aren't my friend. you were waiting for this opportunity to harrass me. you couldn't resist cause you needed this photo op.
Undo.... your words
he's not getting my support. not because he may or may not be correct on some or many of his points but because he made the claim that the bible or tanakh does not talk about extra-terrestrials, which means he's part of the cover up and therefore, part of the problem.
What does that statement make you then???? If not " part of the problem??????? Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 09:48:39 PM
Undo.... your words
he's not getting my support. not because he may or may not be correct on some or many of his points but because he made the claim that the bible or tanakh does not talk about extra-terrestrials, which means he's part of the cover up and therefore, part of the problem.
What does that statement make you then???? If not " part of the problem??????? Linda
it makes me a person who is saying, "hey wait a minute, that's a stereotype, bigotted, prejudiced view". listen linda, if you were my friend, you would look at that and say or think the same thing because you would know, that i would not lie about something like that. just ask z. when we were on ats, during john lear's moon thread, i was right there with them and i saw the same things they did and said so, and argued the point in their and my own defense. and now i get to read by this guy that christians are hiding the information. how does he know that? i'm christian and i'm not hiding it! use your freakin' common sense! snap the heck out of it
And I want you to carefully read what has been written here between us and.... with love.... I send you the same advice. Snap out of It. Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 29, 2012, 10:03:35 PM
And I want you to carefully read what has been written here between us and.... with love.... I send you the same advice. Snap out of It. Linda
snap out of defending myself against unfair prejudice and accusations that are, for the very obvious fact that nasa hires people of all walks of life, huge generalizations designed to austracize only one part of society? i tell you what, i'll quit defending myself when it is obvious that no one is listening. but since you're here, listening, i'll keep defending myself it is, afterall, like a human right to defend oneself against false accusations. don't ask me to shut up . read john lear's moon thread on ats. read the crap i had to deal with for not only noticing anomalies in the images, but going to much trouble to post them for others to see, with the areas outlined.
Undo.... do you really think that I do not understand?
" but since you're here, listening, i'll keep defending myself it is, afterall, like a human right to defend oneself against false accusations. don't ask me to shut up .
Ok.... I won't. But the only advice I have is... be thankful for the people who care and are listening.... and make sure that when you do " defend" yourself... it is against the real enemy. Linda
are you telling me that mr. joseph is my friend? he doesn't even know me and has already assumed me and people like me, are hiding scientific evidence.
expelled: no intelligence allowed, a video by ben stein where he shows evidence that you can get expelled or even fired, for admitting you believe in intelligent design of any kind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIZAAh_6OXg
Beth, nobody attacked you. The plaintiff accused NASA of something. Science is meant to be about EVIDENCE and the plaintiff - rightly OR wrongly - accused NASA of covering up or distorting evidence for ideological reasons.
Nobody at all has attacked you. If you disagree with their opinion fine. Say so and then get over it. This is NOT a thread about your personal religious beliefs and you are distracting from the topic at hand.
here's where most of my posts in john lear's moon thread began
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread225616/pg49
i argue that you can tell the images have some photo manipulation on them.
from mr. joseph's article:
QuoteThe Jewish religious book, the Tenakh, and the Christian Bible make no mention of extraterrestrial life, and state that life arose on Earth under super natural conditions, and thus NASA and other defendants claim life originated on Earth under super natural conditions and there is no evidence of extraterrestrial life.
he's claiming not only that there's no evidence for ets in the bible (oh really now?) and that as a result, christians who control nasa (oh really now?) are claiming there's no evidence of ets and hiding any evidence that arises. riiiiight. so you don't want me to address THAT part of the article? why only THAT part? you might want to take a gander at your own agenda for once instead of always shoving the mirror in my face.
Undo11,
With the highest respect, and a liking for You.
ALL belief systems create a self protection reaction from the believer.
That leads to believers becoming defensive relative to their belief.
PLEASE, pretty please try to become the observer , rather than entering into the drama.
We are out of pop corn.
You are posting from a biased position relative to Your belief.
You are passionate about this, it shows.
hobbit
Quote from: hobbit on June 29, 2012, 10:51:40 PM
Undo11,
With the highest respect, and a liking for You.
ALL belief systems create a self protection reaction from the believer.
That leads to believers becoming defensive relative to their belief.
PLEASE, pretty please try to become the observer , rather than entering into the drama.
We are out of pop corn.
You are posting from a biased position relative to Your belief.
You are passionate about this, it shows.
hobbit
dude he's trying to make a case to take people to trial and everything else, based on his personal view that the people running nasa are christians hiding evidence. in effect, he wants to make a court case against christians at nasa. he doesn't even know how many actually are christians. he's just assuming all this. probably trying to figure out how to get rid of all those irritating intelligent design people and give their jobs to someone else that deserves it since christians just lie and lie and lie.
being a christian is not evidence of lying, for cripes sake. that's his real agenda. responding to false accusatons, is a natural right of every human being. if i accused people who had the same world view as you of being guilty of something sinister, you would probably bust a gasket trying to defend yourself as well. this is not unreasonable.
Undo
You say here
" that's his real agenda.
And my point is..... You are so wrapped up in your OWN AGENDA that you have no chance to see what may be his AGENDA at all because you have already leapt to your own defence. Not necessary.
Linda
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 10:50:53 PM
from mr. joseph's article:
he's claiming not only that there's no evidence for ets in the bible (oh really now?) and that as a result, christians who control nasa (oh really now?) are claiming there's no evidence of ets and hiding any evidence that arises. riiiiight.
Whatever he is claiming is irrelevant. It is still not an attack on you. Christians or not, he has a right to his opinion.
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 10:50:53 PM
so you don't want me to address THAT part of the article? why only THAT part? you might want to take a gander at your own agenda for once instead of always shoving the mirror in my face.
I thought you had already addressed that part. If not have your say but please stop being so defensive. It is hijacking the entire thread - which is not about your personal beliefs you have every right to have - and does nothing to raise the bar on this site.
Does anyone else have any comments? I know it is a long press release and I lazily didn't summarise it (sorry but there are some interesting points to chew over.
well if i can't defend myself here, than you obviously aren't interested in my rights as a human being, which means what's the point of even talking to you?
Remember that red button I mentioned Undo, Who is pushing it, but you? Linda
Quoteand does nothing to raise the bar on this site.
did you read my link to john lear's moon thread where i prove that i have been saying there's something fishy going on with the nasa images, for YEARS? this is evidence that he's wrong that "christians" in specific are withholding, and that makes me think he's wrong on his initial premise that it's being withheld for religious reasons.
and THAT also deserves being discussed because it's the main premise of his entire case against nasa.
Rose had this to say
"I think he makes a tight case for many of his claims.
And I agree with her.... as soon as things get a little quieter here I will try to pick one claim that shows that....
Its sort of cool I think that someone has gotten enough gumption up to challenge NASA. Yea! Linda
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 11:26:41 PM
well if i can't defend myself here, than you obviously aren't interested in my rights as a human being, which means what's the point of even talking to you?
If you are addressing me then I clearly said have your say. However, you can't defend yourself if nobody attacked you. That would be ridiculous in my opinion. If you have a problem with my position then lets discuss somewhere other than this thread which
IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR ME. ::)
On the other hand, the images do interest me. The religious nonsense is what he claims is motive. Motive is not the "crime". Lets discuss the alleged crime then if there is one the motive. If there is no crime then there can't be a motive. If you pretend to not understand that then conversation over.
@Linda
Interesting development if the guy has the legal backing or cash to follow this through.... I have my doubts about that.
And then... the thought struck me...
I wonder if they will try somehow to involve the NRO into this.... since they are responsible for most of the intelligence in these sightings???? I wonder if there is someone in the NRO being his silent partner in this because frankly I can not imagine that anyone can get ANYTHING without their help.
What do you think that there might possible on that score. Talk about dissention in the " ranks" sort of.
Very interesting... but how could some of this be unveiled without someone having the courage to do this? I don't think that he is doing this by himself.
Linda
i wouldn't want to see him succeed in his case merely for the fact it's so freakin' prejudiced that it'll give incentive to start blaming christians for things like your tomato having a spot on it.
OK. Your point is more than made Undo, Lets move to the next question?
"Interesting development if the guy has the legal backing or cash to follow this through.... I have my doubts about that.
Cash for his case is not as important as " friends in the right places" Cash would be easy to raise for this .... hey... all they have to do is ask and I would donate. No.... money will not be his problem. But he needs a very big friend...... a friend who controls the photos. Only one organization that I know would be in the right position. Linda
it is an interesting development but does no one besides me see the agenda? he's claiming (as if he knew absolutely) that there are no ets mentioned in the bible or tanakh. lol you should be raising an eyebrow at such a claim. only a person of religious persuasion would say something like that. but what religious persuasion is the question.
as far as von braun's christianity, if you think practicing christianity entails the data written about him, i have some nice mountain property in the florida everglades, to sell you.
Rose.... and any other researcher out there..... have there been any flaps about NASA and the NRO having any kind of " turf war" or dispute or anything that would even whiff of an internal disagreement? Such things happen. Especially with something so big as the final disclosure of PROOF of an alien presence.... or more than one. I suspect something is going on that the general public has not heard about. Any rumors?
Should we check out the tabloids???? <g> Inside joke. Linda
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 08:27:53 PM
oh let me guess. i'm to blame for nasa not telling the truth. that's how ridiculous that statement he made is. it's my fault (you have to read what that guy is saying, he's saying "christians". he's not limiting it to actual culprits but using it as an excuse to lambast entire groups of people based on their faith. he fails to mention other non-christian groups, because he's part of the problem. he wants everyone to think that christians and jews, in particular, are withholding information. yet, from just a cursory reading of related companies and programs like jet propulsion labs, it's pretty evident the place is not a "christian" organization nor a jewish one.
I disagree fully. He pointed at specific individuals and Their beliefs being used. Would You say the same if He said Hunduism (not that that belief system is the best for this example...)? "They are covering it up They believe in Hinduism and Hinduism conflicts with the evidence."
Nowhere did He accuse ALL christians, nor christianity. He accused the men and the program They run. The specific belief system is not at all the point except as it exists in the form these men seem to believe (i.e., the "fundamentalist" idea that there are no ET lifeforms, and that life is only here on earth because this planet is "special"). If They held a belief in the Cosmic Muffin singling earth out as "The Bestest Place" and the earth was the only spot in all the universe with life, THAT would have been the religion mentioned.
Only insofar as the beliefs explain motivation were they mentioned.
EDIT to add: Wow. Did not see where this thread has gone when I responded. I didn't even see it had gone to two pages! Anyway. I saw no attack on christianity. I saw the specific beliefs of specific individuals mantioned as motive. That is all.
Odd question AMY. Why did you use the phrase " Cosmic Muffin????" Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 12:38:38 AM
Odd question AMY. Why did you use the phrase " Cosmic Muffin????" Linda
I am a big fan of Deteriorata from National Lampoon's Radio Dinner album:
Introduction
You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.....
Deteriorata! Deteriorata!
Go placidly
Amid the noise and waste.
And remember what comfort there may be
In owning a piece thereof.
Avoid quiet and passive persons
Unless you are in need of sleep.
Ro-tate your tires.
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself
And heed well their advice,
Even though they be turkeys.
Know what to kiss.....and when!
Consider that two wrongs never make a right
But that THREE.........do.
Wherever possible, put people on hold.
Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer main-te-nance.
Chorus
You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.
Remember the Pueblo.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mu-ti-late.
Know yourself.
If you need help, call the FBI.
Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you.
That lemon on your left, for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet.
Fall not in love therefore;
It will stick to your face.
Gracefully surrender the things of youth:
The birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan
And let not the sands of time
Get in your lunch.
Hire people with hooks.
For a good time call 606-4311;
Ask for "Ken."
Take heart amid the deepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.
And reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot
It could only be worse in Milwaukee.
Chorus
You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.
Therefore, make peace with your god
Whatever you conceive him to be---
Hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises and urban renewal
The world continues to deteriorate.
GIVE UP!
Reprise
You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.
How about starting here
http://nasawatch.com/archives/2012/06/nro-gives-nasa.html
The U.S. government's secret space program has decided to give NASA two telescopes as big as, and even more powerful than, the Hubble Space Telescope. Designed for surveillance, the telescopes from the National Reconnaissance Office were no longer needed for spy missions and can now be used to study the heavens.
WHY??????????
What was it that Buffett sang.... we have our heads in an oven and someones lighting a match????
There is more folks about dark energy....... worth the read....... Linda
The Cosmic Muffin was the name of the boat that a character by the name of Desdemona owned in one of Jimmy Buffetts books. He sings about her..... I think that I just mentioned her slapping the water to draw the entities to her......
Hello to what I call the grand cosmic haha. Linda
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 08:27:53 PM
i'm to blame for nasa not telling the truth.
really? :o I always wondered....
{{{runs out of the room}}}
ama
oh i think that's the big premise of his entire case. he first states without hesitation, that there are no ETs mentioned in the bible or the tanakh. then he says that christians who run nasa are withholding information because it might prove their religion wrong. yet when you watch a group of skeptics banging away at the subject of doctored nasa photos or ets, they are often also found banging away at religion as well.
so don't blame me if i think his premise is flawed, in that the rationale for withholding evidence is to keep it from being proved otherwise, as if microbes from space could disprove intelligent design. there's no one size fits all version of this data, so when someone says there is, i know they have an agenda, and when i say one size fits all, i mean suggesting that evolution plays no role or evolution plays the only role, both positions, are not only unprovable, but rather extreme in the face of evidence like mutating immune functions, natural camoflage mutations and etc, or evidence that such things can and have been tinkered with genetically, not only in our "modern time" but in the past as well.
in effect, he's tossing whole groups of people under the bus, under a false premise
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 12:49:18 AM
How about starting here
http://nasawatch.com/archives/2012/06/nro-gives-nasa.html
The U.S. government's secret space program has decided to give NASA two telescopes as big as, and even more powerful than, the Hubble Space Telescope. Designed for surveillance, the telescopes from the National Reconnaissance Office were no longer needed for spy missions and can now be used to study the heavens.
Cool we always knew there were at lest two Hubbles :D but three? and bigger? So WHAT were they using them for? Hubble optics are not set for looking at Earth or the moon (they claim) only for long distance observayion
So what were the NRO satellites looking at
Why do they no longer need them> Maybe some of those heavy lifter rockets have sent up bigger ones?
LOL would love to pop in to ATS and say "We told you so" :P
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 12:56:30 AM
in effect, he's tossing whole groups of people under the bus, under a false premise
So effectively replacing one falsehood with another falsehood to further confuddle us?
Seems about right. You have to stir things ever few years or the audience gets bored
Quote from: zorgon on June 30, 2012, 01:00:21 AM
So effectively replacing one falsehood with another falsehood to further confuddle us?
Seems about right. You have to stir things ever few years or the audience gets bored
what? there's no way to prove intelligent design wrong and there's no way to prove evolution wrong. both of these things have been observed in modern times. we know there are no scientific laws that exclude them from happening, so to state it must be one way or the other with no other option, is the befuddlng part. are you suggesting there's no evidence for intelligent design?
I am trying very hard to control myself here Undo , If I sound sharp with you.... then I am saying I am sorry in advance. Maybe two or three times.
Get your head out of the sand and look at what is happening here. Do you see it? You are so busy trying to prove your case against what this gentleman said.... that you are not even LOOKING at what is being talked about here.... just slightly under the surface.
And Zorgon. Of course, NRO never gives anything up without a trade off.... and those two big spy birds have been up there for a long time.... looking at Earth.... but now suddenly they need more help watching the skys!!!!! I am not being chicken little here folks. If the NRO is turning more eyes outward.... you KNOW this is not just whimsy.
Lets not get caught up in petty bickering. We don't have time for it!
And Mikado.... thats my message to you too. Linda
linda
QuoteI am trying very hard to control myself here Undo
then pm me your criticism of the facts as you see them. cause this issue doesn't say a thing about nro vs nasa. it does accuse nasa of being a christian/jewish organization that is deliberately hiding evidence of evolution. i'm addressing the actual issue, you're trying to change the subject. sorry it's so uncomfortable to learn that the stereotypes you've been reading for the last 10 years aren't true afterall.
i want nasa to reveal the truth that they have, but i don't want it to be as a result of a very prejudice inquiry, as it will just add fuel to the already near psychotic belief that christians and/or jews are to blame for everything on the planet that goes wrong.
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 12:53:02 AM
The Cosmic Muffin was the name of the boat that a character by the name of Desdemona owned in one of Jimmy Buffetts books. He sings about her..... I think that I just mentioned her slapping the water to draw the entities to her......
Hello to what I call the grand cosmic haha. Linda
Radio Dinner was an album that came out in the early 1970's. I bet that is where He got the idea for naming the ship in the book.
I am sure thats right. His character would have liked that piece of work. appropriate.
Linda
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 12:56:30 AM
ama
oh i think that's the big premise of his entire case. he first states without hesitation, that there are no ETs mentioned in the bible or the tanakh. then he says that christians who run nasa are withholding information because it might prove their religion wrong. yet when you watch a group of skeptics banging away at the subject of doctored nasa photos or ets, they are often also found banging away at religion as well.
so don't blame me if i think his premise is flawed, in that the rationale for withholding evidence is to keep it from being proved otherwise, as if microbes from space could disprove intelligent design. there's no one size fits all version of this data, so when someone says there is, i know they have an agenda, and when i say one size fits all, i mean suggesting that evolution plays no role or evolution plays the only role, both positions, are not only unprovable, but rather extreme in the face of evidence like mutating immune functions, natural camoflage mutations and etc, or evidence that such things can and have been tinkered with genetically, not only in our "modern time" but in the past as well.
in effect, he's tossing whole groups of people under the bus, under a false premise
May I point out that the Bible, as translated to English, does indeed make no mention of ET. The fact that things are described such that a step back makes it pretty clear that is what is being REFERRED to is irrelevant. The man spoke the truth. And also was making it clear these People believe that there is no evidence in what They read, taking the words literally - i.e., a "chariot" was a chariot...
So I am not seeing where You are taking issue.
ama
how can it be there and not be there at the same time?
it's there but only under the condition that no christian says so.
it's not there, if a christian says so. i say it's there. i'm a christian
you say no, it isnt. but if you look at it, and you are not a christian,
it does say so.
oh my god, it's worse than i thought. this is a very sad day for me. excuse me while i go freak out somewhere else.
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 01:23:57 AM
And Zorgon. Of course, NRO never gives anything up without a trade off.... and those two big spy birds have been up there for a long time.... looking at Earth.... but now suddenly they need more help watching the skys!!!!! I am not being chicken little here folks. If the NRO is turning more eyes outward.... you KNOW this is not just whimsy.
A long time ago in a far away forum :P
John and I spoke a lot about secret astronauts, secret space planes and even more than one Hubble. All those years we were called crazy, lunatics etc and people demanded proof. John even got banned over it at the time..
Then along comes PBS NOVA and two weeks before I posted my pages on the Secret Astronauts at ATS they do a fantastic special called "ASTROSPIES" and lo and behold... there is the secret astronaut corps exposed.
Later I added the mega thread about the Naval Space Command
Now suddenly the skeptics were silent... now suddenly its old news.
We spoke of secret space planes years ago... now the skeptics are tracking one of those and NASA announced that an amateur sky watcher had first spotted their Secret space plane. The second one is now back down but you can track them here
http://www.n2yo.com/?s=33506
John told us years ago about at least one other Hubble up there... now today its common knowledge on NASA watch that the NRO gave up two of them... likely because they sent up bigger and better ones :D
So now tell me how they have kept the Saucer Fleet secret since Roswell :D
Point is folks, you heard it here first... and didn't believe :P
THAT is what we try do here
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 01:10:14 AM
what? there's no way to prove intelligent design wrong and there's no way to prove evolution wrong. both of these things have been observed in modern times. we know there are no scientific laws that exclude them from happening, so to state it must be one way or the other with no other option, is the befuddlng part. are you suggesting there's no evidence for intelligent design?
There is no proof that either is right either and the "intelligent design" I see in the Universe does not coincide with your religious beliefs. I neither apologize for my belief, nor do I deny you the right to believe as you choose
However I have no intention of turning this thread into another religious debate. Pimander simply posted an article he found both interesting and significant. You stated your reasons for not supporting the lawsuit in the first post. Can we not just leave it at that?
Quote from: Pimander on June 29, 2012, 08:35:08 PM
I agree that there are plenty of texts that mention what looks like ETs. However, I was posting to show that NASA are being accused of a cover-up.
I agree and its a great post
QuoteI think it is fascinating that someone is considering taking NASA to court over an "alleged" cover-up of data.
I agree and the subject of this thread..
Lets try to keep it on that focus
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 03:05:42 AM
ama
how can it be there and not be there at the same time?
it's there but only under the condition that no christian says so.
it's not there, if a christian says so. i say it's there. i'm a christian
you say no, it isnt. but if you look at it, and you are not a christian,
it does say so.
oh my god, it's worse than i thought. this is a very sad day for me. excuse me while i go freak out somewhere else.
It's there for Those whose minds are open to see it. Some want to believe the earth is the singular and most important work of God. They WILL NOT SEE, in the descriptions, what is being described.
So. Because there is no specifically stated line, like, "Verily, cometh down from stars afar Beings that God created on other earths," One can believe that the earth is the only inhabited place in the universe, and any passage that, to open-minded christians is evidence of ET, will be seen only as "God magic."
The Bibles does not say, specifically, that there were any creation of Beings but Us here on this planet. And so, it is true to say so.
Quote from: Amaterasu on June 30, 2012, 03:30:24 AM
It's there for Those whose minds are open to see it. Some want to believe the earth is the singular and most important work of God. They WILL NOT SEE, in the descriptions, what is being described.
So. Because there is no specifically stated line, like, "Verily, cometh down from stars afar Beings that God created on other earths," One can believe that the earth is the only inhabited place in the universe, and any passage that, to open-minded christians is evidence of ET, will be seen only as "God magic."
The Bibles does not say, specifically, that there were any creation of Beings but Us here on this planet. And so, it is true to say so.
i'm not going to post my response cause z has asked me not to. you have my response already, anyway. and you chose to answer it that way. all i can say is, whatever. :D pardon me now, i'm off to go sulk and freak out that prc hates my religion so badly, i'm not even allowed to see what i see in the text. only they are allowed to see it. that's NEW. like brand new. as in, holey rusted metal batman.
Why is it so hard for people anywhere to accept that everyone has different beliefs on religion and poly ticks?
DISCLAIMER
The opinions expressed by individual members do not necessarily reflect those of Pegasus Research Consortium. They are the personal opinions and beliefs of those making them
Now go back to your corners and come out shaking hands :D
(or whatever appendages you might have on your planet)
ama
you said:
QuoteIdeology aside, that is not what MY money was supposed to be going towards
MINE EITHER! ARGH!
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 12:56:30 AM
he first states without hesitation, that there are no ETs mentioned in the bible or the tanakh
i agree faulty premise I find a lot of ET's in the Bible and since God et al are not of this Earth they are by default ET. It was a NASA
scientist engineer, a Christian, who proved Ezekial's wheels were a viable spacecraft
Quotethen he says that christians who run nasa are withholding information because it might prove their religion wrong.
So
IF NASA had proof that the Reptilians run this sector of space and the NAVY is holding them at bay with that secret space fleet we all know is out there... would that not "prove their religion wrong" IF there are such secreta, I could easily see that as a reason
But then the Bible does state that it was a Reptilian that chatted up Eve (as if it was normal to be chatting with Reptilians) and got us all into trouble...
yet no one wants to believe in Reptilians
Its no wonder we are all confused
Quoteyet when you watch a group of skeptics banging away at the subject of doctored nasa photos or ets, they are often also found banging away at religion as well.
Skeptics... the kind that we refer to generally as debunkers, are in my mine the worst evil on the planet They bang away at EVERYTHING and believe in NOTHING... they are not worthy of licking my boots
Now people like ArMap... those are true skeptics... the kind that keep seeking but just need better proof
Letting the skeptics of the first kind get to you... means letting them win. Don't let them win
Quotein effect, he's tossing whole groups of people under the bus, under a false premise
Which is why I said "replacing one falsehood with another" that you took objection to ;)
z
am i allowed to respond or not? tell me first.
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 06:11:19 AM
am i allowed to respond or not? tell me first.
You can reply all you like... I just didn't want this to turn away from the topic and turn into a battle
But hey I just work here :P
z
you said:
Quote
Not ALL people at NASA suppress things
Not ALL things at NASA are suppressed
oh thank god, some common sense.
could you also add to that, Not ALL people at NASA are christians?
thanks.
z
you said:
QuoteWhich is why I said "replacing one falsehood with another" that you took objection to
if you thought my info was a falsehood, why'd you invite me here to talk about it?
well anyway, since nasa is not the only official agency that deals with et questions, does that mean our military is also hiding it for religious reasons? think about all the people in the military that aren't christian or jewish. lol what if the reason is because it's to their military advantage not to tell anybody else? what if only certain people in the heads of all governments around the world, are allowed to know? what if it has nothing to do with religion?
had he left the whole christian/jewish thing out of it, and not opened his argument with the bible and tanakh not mentioning ets (his own personal interpretation), he would've had a better case, but as it stands, how's he gonna present that argument in a court of law? he'd have to first prove ets are not mentioned in the bible. think about that. do you want our court system making a ruling about what is and isn't in the bible? once there is legal precedence for such a position, that's when the real caca hits the air circulating device. then the court can start ruling what you are allowed to and not allowed to believe about the bible or tanakh or any other book.
hopefully the judge will toss the whole thing out on the pretext that the courts of the usa are not for determining the validity or non validity of ETs in scripture.
christian dude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9veMGPsfiQ
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 03:58:13 PM
NASA has kept proof of the evidence of Alien life forms interacting with us AWAY from our view and our knowledge. For just now PLEASE focus on that!!!)
Sadly, I don't think Beth wants us to do that. In fact, I'm sure of it.
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 09:35:44 AM
hopefully the judge will toss the whole thing out on the pretext that the courts of the usa are not for determining the validity or non validity of ETs in scripture.
The definition of pretext:
1. something that is put forward to conceal a true purpose or object; an ostensible reason; excuse: The leaders used the insults as a pretext to declare war.
2. the misleading appearance or behavior assumed with this intention: His many lavish compliments were a pretext for subtle mockery.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pretext
That about sums it up. You would want a judge to use religion as an excuse to throw out a case about ET cover-up. This is pathetic. ::)
ITS NOT HER FAULT PIMANDER!
The sad part of her not wanting us to " go there" Pimander is NOT that is her actual wish.... its that she will not know why she is taking the stand in the first place!... and trying to explain that " red button " to her will do nothing but bring more off -course discussions....
She will do what she is inspired to do and we will follow what information we have been able to see. Those who can not see it will never be able to understand. Morgan once said with a sigh...." It just is what it is...." Linda
QuoteSadly, I don't think Beth wants us to do that. In fact, I'm sure of it.
if he addressed the situation correctly and didn't preface it with prejudiced statements, i'd be interested and supportive. but as it stands, he might as well have said, nasa are a bunch of women who are withholding information that proves men are superior. and nowhere in their women's book of the great lipstick tube does it say women are worth anything.
As I recall Undo.... not many places in the Bible supported women either. Thats what gave men the idea that they could take the attitudes that they have.... until relatively recently. All very Biblical.
Just keep hitting that red button. Something will head in your direction. Can't say nobody warned you. Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 07:14:22 PM
As I recall Undo.... not many places in the Bible supported women either. Thats what gave men the idea that they could take the attitudes that they have.... until relatively recently. All very Biblical.
You are right Linda, but to echo you earlier, probably wasting your time.
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 07:14:22 PM
Something will head in your direction. Can't say nobody warned you. Linda
are you threatening me?
Absolutely not. Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 07:14:22 PM
As I recall Undo.... not many places in the Bible supported women either.
odd though isn't it, that the one place it does support women, et.al, in the teachings of jesus christ, who an entire religion was formed around, and who are now being accused of things like lying thru their teeth to hide something that might prove their religion is false, i mean what else could it be? why is no one in the thread, other than me, willing to address the bizarre way the guy approached his case?
NOTE TO MEMBERS: Those of you who wish to discuss evidence for and against an alleged NASA cover-up of evidence of ET life do not despair. I will split this topic in the next 24 hours into two topics. One for discussion of the religious aspect and one for the part most of our members will be interested in.
I apologise to the many members who are here to discuss everything other than religion. Perhaps I should have realised what would potentially happen. 8)
Undo,
Many of us understand how passionate you are about this subject but it is making you BLIND to other issues. And when you are Blind.....you are vunerable. I am sure that you can work that out yourself. Or not... actually.... not my problem.... how you respond to things is YOUR responsibility.
I shouldn't have to say any more..... other than others here want to talk about the case about NASA withholding evidence of alien encounters. Period. Linda
i have the power to go back and remove my posts. you can do likewise, if you want to remove my line of questioning and commentary. don't know how you could truthfully discuss the topic of a case predicated on statements that 1) there are no ets in the bible and 2) that christians and jews at nasa are deliberately hiding the information, and still consider this topic a fact finding mission. only fact i see it finding is that people are willing to ignore the big ogre staring them in the eye, to see the fly on the wall across the street.
how you can discuss his lawsuit without actually addressing its contents, is beyond me. this thread is a troll thread, designed to cause arguments such as evidenced in this thread, all over the internet.
i'm thinking it's a psyop of some kind, and i don't personally appreciate it.
No, I will leave all of our posts as they are. I may change the title of the thread slightly is all and I have no problem with you continuing your "discussion" here. I agree that the religious aspect is relevant but our members are primarily interested in other material.
I may also copy posts related to the non-religious aspect to another thread - probably with a similar opening post to this one - so they can be discussed on their own merit because they have been buried here.
Quote from: Pimander on June 30, 2012, 07:44:19 PM
I apologise to the many members who are here to discuss everything other than religion. Perhaps I should have realised what would potentially happen. 8)
why bring up a case that is predicated on religion and then complain when a person of the religion in question asks why it was necessary for the guy to even bring religion into it, in the first place? you're trolling the forum with this because you don't want people to even address the premise of his lawsuit! you want his argument to be ignored. WHAT ???
you're not making any sense.
That was a good move Pimander. Thank you for that. Linda
un-freakin-believable.
There is nothing wrong with splitting the discussion Undo... that way you can spend better detailed time on discussions that are not at all interesting to some of us. Having both discussions running parallel would only be beneficial.
Unless you have a reason for wanting to maintain it on this path, neglecting the other??
Linda
Quote from: Pimander on June 30, 2012, 07:59:20 PM
No, I will leave all of our posts as they are. I may change the title of the thread slightly is all and I have no problem with you continuing your "discussion" here. I agree that the religious aspect is relevant but our members are primarily interested in other material.
I may also copy posts related to the non-religious aspect to another thread - probably with a similar opening post to this one - so they can be discussed on their own merit because they have been buried here.
what other material could it be? the only material in the dang lawsuit is that christians and jews are hiding data because the bible doesn't say anything about ETs, both premises of which are complete falsehoods.
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 08:05:27 PM
you're not making any sense.
I am to everyone else reading this lol
I am happy for a discussion to continue about any aspect of this...
no pimander, i'm not an idiot. this entire thing has been one big photo op to insult me as much as possible and watch me squirm.
If you have any personal issues with me then this is not the place for it. I like to do my laundry in private.
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 08:18:37 PM
There is nothing wrong with splitting the discussion Undo... that way you can spend better detailed time on discussions that are not at all interesting to some of us. Having both discussions running parallel would only be beneficial.
Unless you have a reason for wanting to maintain it on this path, neglecting the other??
Linda
and YOU, young lady, i will be having some serious prayer time for. i'm gonna pray for you to be richly blessed and receive whatever it is you want in life, because in your case, that's all that matters.
Quote from: Pimander on June 30, 2012, 08:25:48 PM
If you have any personal issues with me then this is not the place for it. I like to do my laundry in private.
oh you're not the only one partaking in the emotional and mental cruelty. you're just the messenger. albeit, a strange messenger, who hands me a message and then tells me to ignore most of its content . maybe catalyst, is a better word for it.
red button catalyst. Thats really not a bad title but in this case Primander is just doing his job here Undo. YOU are doing the rest of it. Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 08:32:54 PM
red button catalyst. Thats really not a bad title but in this case Primander is just doing his job here Undo. YOU are doing the rest of it. Linda
did you read his premise? he interprets the text to mean something that many christians don't agree with and then takes the writings of some catholic priest from 800 years ago (?) as evidence that nasa is hiding information. hey, they may very well be hiding information, but to blame christians and jews for it, is bizarre, particularly when basing it on his own interpretation or the interpretation of a guy who predated the space age by nearly a millenia.
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 30, 2012, 08:32:54 PM
red button catalyst. Thats really not a bad title but in this case Primander is just doing his job here Undo. YOU are doing the rest of it. Linda
your default position is to always side against me in any argument, even going as far as to side against me when i was defending you. i've decided not to respond to you anymore. last bit of my brain space you will have power over will simply be the space that prays for you to be richly blessed. don't ask anything more of me, or i will hit the ceiling.
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 08:05:27 PM
why it was necessary for the guy to even bring religion into it, in the first place?
The fact that most people that believe NASA (and the government in general) are covering up ET, believe that it is because of religious reaction throughout the world, not just Christians.
This is something many at ATS and here have said for years, including John and myself. Sure some people in all religions are starting to accept that there may be life out there, even the Catholic Church is ready to baptize them... but the vast majotity of people in most major religions would not react nicely to revelation that ET is real, has been and is visiting this planet now.
Quoteyou're trolling the forum with this because
He is NOT trolling
z
yes he is trolling because he brings up the guy's case that is predicated on points 1 and 2 that i've mentioned in this thread several times now and then fusses at me when i ask how in the sam hill that could be blamed totally on christians at nasa. how many christians work at nasa? anybody know? where's the flippin evidence. it's a trial without a defense attorney or even a judge.
how many christians at nasa, know about things like the secret space program? wasn't all that on a need to know basis? he's not saying the case is predicated on what other people believe in the world, he's saying the christians at nasa are hiding information, deliberately, so as to hide evidence for THEIR personal religion. oh and jews are, too.
............is a person jewish due to religion or to race? i had this argument with someone else, in fact, the guy was a former member of OTO that i interviewed about jack parsons and all that jazzola. he said, it's a race, not a religion. i said it was a religion. he said no. the common concensus is that "jew" is racial background not religious background. they are genetic descendants of abraham, on king david's side of the tree, from the tribe of judah (jew). their religion, whether practiced or not, is irrelevant, according to the OTO, as their genetic make up makes them "jews", not their religion of choice.
so the lawsuit is also stating that a race of people have a specific reason to hide this information. or is it the religion of that race of people? or does it really matter, since we have evidence of at least 2 religions and several racial backgrounds in nasa. i'm sure there are many more. you know this about nasa. i can't believe you've sided with this guy on his accusations.
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 08:10:12 PM
un-freakin-believable.
Greetings:
We agree.
And also think that splitting the thread is a wonderful idea!
Beth, what would you like the 'new title' of 'your' new thread to be?
There is where you can make your stand and not derail what looked to be an interesting discussion started by P.
Do you think you can hold your own there, in your own space, defending what you have previously shared in this thread?
Do you think those that came to this thread wanting information contained in the title will follow you over there to discuss the religious connotations you have alluded to?
We, for many, would like you to point out (in ANY 'version') of the Bible where "ET" is SPECIFICALLY mentioned - in your new space.
There, you have your audience.
We, for many, want to see that.
Please tell us what you think of the chance for you to 'really cut loose' and tell it like it is -
in the correct place.Oh, Beth, BTW, you made a rather derogatory comment about our 'signature sign-off' a while back and we responded and you wisely dropped that one.
So, we'll sign-off as usual.
Peace Love Light
tfw
Liberty & Equality or Revolution
ETA: Pimander, we share your concerns and agree with the split.
Tell you what, either we or Zorgon will do it to take you out of the middle.
Will you use the same exact title? ... we're not really sure how that works.
Seems like a good place to post this again from another thread.
Quote from: deuem on June 28, 2012, 07:50:25 PM
Hello Zorgon and posers all, I just found this thread and I see it is getting into all sorts of ideas.
(...)
My approach to such a project or any project is where do we go from here?
(...)
When we are on the forum it is team time...
If all of the brain power here can't figure it out who can?
Thanks,
Deuem
Greetings:
Attaboy, Deuem!
We have taken the liberty to highlight the above for obvious reasons.
Thank you for your time, consideration, patience and participation.
Peace Love Light
tfw
Liberty & Equality or Revolution
ETA: Have some gold!
Quote from: thorfourwinds on June 30, 2012, 09:07:02 PM
Oh, Beth, BTW, you made a rather derogatory comment about our 'signature sign-off' a while back and we responded and you wisely dropped that one.
So, we'll sign-off as usual.
Peace Love Light
tfw
Liberty & Equality or Revolution
what the hell? are you threatening me too? what is freakin wrong with you people!? i'm not rich or powerful, nor do i work at nasa. i don't even attend a church. i didn't fry people at the stake, kill people in the inquisition or do any other dastardly deeds! quit with the frigin threats.
i know a person who use to work at nasa. he was mormon. hubby was in the military and interacted with people from nasa. this poop is like saying some little guy who cooks the food in the mess hall masterminded the
hiding of et evidence. in fact, my hubby was the one who showed me the texts about ets in the bible.
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 08:23:46 PM
no pimander, i'm not an idiot. this entire thing has been one big photo op to insult me as much as possible and watch me squirm.
Do You really believe this!?! Really!?! You think this was posted so that We could INSULT...YOU!?!
I have seen no insults here at all. I have seen differing opinions, Beth, but if You are going to take differing opinions as "insults," that is on You, not Us.
[sigh] Will probably wish I didn't type this.
where's the mass mind control here? not me, i can tell you that. if someone told you that christians cause you to break out in warts, you'd probably believe it
Dear Beth:
We were merely pointing out another instance where you might have missed the exact point and went off on a tangent then and got over it.
We were congratulating you on your integrity, compassion and sincerity!Now please address the REAL issues of that significant post, if you can.
Peace Love Light
tfw
Liberty & Equality or Revolution
this is what you all remind me of, only in this case, you've refined your approach and applied little innuendos, little digs and pokes and jibs, and under your breath threats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAgti_2uziA
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
what the hell? are you threatening me too? what is freakin wrong with you people!?
It appears that no matter what anyone is saying, you only hear what you want to. There was no threat made by Thor or anyone else. There is nothing wrong with 'us people'
I think I will go outside now and pick some Fukushima mutated tomatoes for lunch
thorfourwinds
TOO LATE!
you waited UNTIL NOW, to tell me that! too damn late!
Quote from: zorgon on June 30, 2012, 09:55:21 PM
It appears that no matter what anyone is saying, you only hear what you want to. There was no threat made by Thor or anyone else. There is nothing wrong with 'us people'
I think I will go outside now and pick some Fukushima mutated tomatoes for lunch
i didnt' do fukushima either!
p.s. whatever ass hole is following me around on wow, knock it off.
p.p.s. sorry, you're not an ass hole. you're invading my privacy and ticking me off royally, however. i'm gonna start pulling out the big prayers on this one. if you don't want to contribute to the increase in my knee time, leave me the hell alone.
Dear Beth:
Here is the meat of the post.
Please help to make a terrific sandwich... Zorgon's got the tomatoes.
(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w400/thorfourwinds/5398669-giant-sandwich-isolated-on-the-white-background.jpg)
And also think that splitting the thread is a wonderful idea!
Beth, what would you like the 'new title' of 'your' new thread to be?
There is where you can make your stand and not derail what looked to be an interesting discussion started by P.
Do you think you can hold your own there, in your own space, defending what you have previously shared in this thread?
Do you think those that came to this thread wanting information contained in the title will follow you over there to discuss the religious connotations you have alluded to?
We, for many, would like you to point out (in ANY 'version') of the Bible where "ET" is SPECIFICALLY mentioned - in your new space.
There, you have your audience.
We, for many, want to see that.
Please tell us what you think of the chance for you to 'really cut loose' and tell it like it is -
in the correct place.Can't we all get along?
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-bounce016.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Peace Love Light
tfw
Liberty & Equality or Revolution
thor four winds
and not derail
nope, as long as you people refuse to acknowledge the clear evidence in his lawsuit, that he is attempting to use his prejudice to prove nasa christians and jews are hiding evidence due to religion, and as long as you insist that me addressing the ACTUAL content of his lawsuit, is DERAILING THE TOPIC, i know i will never get a fair conversation on this topic here. you're all as prejudice as the guy in the lawsuit.
no mention of it being because there might be military benefits, that the elites might be using it to plan their own get away when the place goes to hell in a handbasket, that they might be violating our rights as human beings, nooo, it's all about christians and jews hiding evidence of evolution and ets. you are letting them shift the blame, and enthusiastically going along with it and even trying to silence any opposition to the premise.
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 10:20:44 PM
thor four winds
and not derail
nope, as long as you people refuse to acknowledge the clear evidence in his lawsuit, that he is attempting to use his prejudice to prove nasa christians and jews are hiding evidence due to religion, and as long as you insist that me addressing the ACTUAL content of his lawsuit, is DERAILING THE TOPIC, i know i will never get a fair conversation on this topic here. you're all as prejudice as the guy in the lawsuit.
I will not acknowledge that, Beth, because what *I* see is him pointing to the beliefs of SPECIFIC PEOPLE and stating that those beliefs color those SPECIFIC PEOPLE's actions. Nowhere does He imply or insinuate that the whole of Judaic and Christians are behind this. He only says it is the motive for those SPECIFIC PEOPLE.
Mountains out of molehills comes to mind.
Quoteno mention of it being because there might be military benefits, that the elites might be using it to plan their own get away when the place goes to hell in a handbasket, that they might be violating our rights as human beings, nooo, it's all about christians and jews hiding evidence of evolution and ets. you are letting them shift the blame, and enthusiastically going along with it and even trying to silence any opposition to the premise.
He may not be able to PROVE these things in a court of law. He therefore sticks to things He can prove.
now is your chance to reply. i was told to take a break and calm down, as if 2 years from now, i'm gonna be any less offended when people stereotype christians.
that's what his lawsuit is, ama. it's a stereotype. he doesn't have to say he blames all christians everywhere because he's not addressing the actual perps by name, but rather by religion.
Quote from: undo11 on June 30, 2012, 10:20:44 PM
nope, as long as you people
"you people" Seriously?
Quoterefuse to acknowledge the clear evidence in his lawsuit, that he is attempting to use his prejudice to prove nasa christians and jews are hiding evidence due to religion, and as long as you insist that me addressing the ACTUAL content of his lawsuit, is DERAILING THE TOPIC, i know i will never get a fair conversation on this topic here. you're all as prejudice as the guy in the lawsuit.
You are not addressing the lawsuit, you are pushing your personal agenda of 'everyone is out to get Christians' and translating that into 'everyone is out to get me'
OBVIOUSLY the guy making the lawsuit has a BIAS against religion. So does that mean we just toss it out the window and not look at it?
So what do us non Christians have to do? agree with you 100% or we are all ass holes that are following you around invading your privacy?
I don't have any answers on how to get through to you, because you are not listening to anything we are saying.
Quoteno mention of it being because there might be military benefits, that the elites might be using it to plan their own get away when the place goes to hell in a handbasket, that they might be violating our rights as human beings, nooo, it's all about christians and jews hiding evidence of evolution and ets. you are letting them shift the blame, and enthusiastically going along with it and even trying to silence any opposition to the premise.
What if all that is BS and there are no elite plans and RT is no longer even here?
This lawsuit is one persons personal opinion. I suggest if you have issues with his motives that you contact him and express your concerns.
I don't give a rats ass about HIS motive at this time, I am interested to see how ANY such lawsuit is handled by the media and NASA.
The fact that they just leaked the info that there are TWO other Hubble class telescopes out there like John has been saying all along is proof that there are coverups.
And that is the point Pimander was trying to make when he suggested we split the thread.
what else is there to address in it? he spends his entire time listing evidence, most of which he draws from the other people like catholic priests from several hundred years ago (i mean aren't the current popes saying there's no reason to view ets as non biblical or threatening to christianity? who is insisting they are non biblical? the very people who used that as an excuse for why et question has never been adequately addressed, that's who! they ignore the thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands and maybe even millions or billions of christians who are not even remotely threatened by the concept of extra terrestrial life, who believe ets exist, some even have personal first hand testimonies, because otherwise, they have to move the blame somewhere else, and christians are the go-to scape goats. it's just too damn convenient.
to be fair, i asked hubby how many of the guys from nasa that he met were christians, and he listed 3, all of them doctors of something or other, but i don't think they were at the level that requires the doctoring of photographs. compartmentalization and all that.